5.7 HEMI Vs. 408 Stroker

I Need some help decideding if i should stroke out my 360 or look for a late model HEMI to put into my 69 barracuda. Also is it possible to put a six pack on a 408? .....HELP!

CHEERS,
Grant

You can put a six pack on a stroker just like you could put one on any small block.

if you do the hemi you have to remember all the other things that go along with it like, tranny,motor mounts,different K frame ect. ect.

A 408 stroker will be cheaper to build and will have monster torque, but a new Hemi will last longer and be better on gas overall. You also won't have to modify the rest of the car as much to handle the power of a new Hemi because they're pretty balanced. It's still a big project though and in the end IMO a 408 swap will be easier to achieve.

you have to decide what you want from the car first.

408... less work haul ass!

With the 408 it still looks like a 360.You can shock some Chebby guys!And maintain stock appearance.

you have to decide what you want from the car first.

Joe is spot on with his reply.

What do you really want from this build? If you went with the hemi, do plan on going with a carb or keeping the injection?

Maybe i should tell you what i plan to do with my 69 barracuda. My philosophy is that if you put all that work on your car you should be able to drive it! I live in the columbia basin, washington, it doesn't rain very much and the sun is out on average 330 days a year. This car is going to be my daily driver depending on the weather. I want the car to handle well and be comfortable, but be able to play a little harder on the weekends! I have a rebuilt 360 with less than 1000 miles on it. Also a difference in fuel milage would be important. If anyone has done a 408 stroker, late model HEMI, or a six pack SB set up in an A-body your insight and experience would be greatly apreciated. I am brand new to this so if it sounds like it you know why....lol

For a car that is going to be a daily driver primarily, the late Hemi with FI is the way to go.

Pros: Smallest displacement
Most efficient combustion
Engine controls that keep spark & fuel at optimum levels.
Replacement parts stocked at dealer.

Cons: Mounting engine and exhaust plumbing
Adapting engine controls to fit in a non-LX environment.
Less selection of aftermarket accessories.
Won't sound as cool (lot less induction roar).
More work since you already have an LA engine in the car.

408 hands down.

as a daily driver type of car its a no brainer to go with the new hemi..

I try not to get ahead of myself, but in the years following me finishing up my fish Id love to drop a new fi hemi into an A.

have to say this cause it irritates the hell outta me. the 3g hemi is NOT a hemi. k, anyways..
the 408 wins. put a EFI system on it and call it DONE.

have to say this cause it irritates the hell outta me. the 3g hemi is NOT a hemi. k, anyways..
the 408 wins. put a EFI system on it and call it DONE.

It's a hell of a lot more of a Hemi than anything made by GM or Ford. The chamber is a Hemi but with an extra spark plug and some quench area added in for better low-RPM combustion. Plus, it has double rocker shafts, which no other company ever used in a V-8. It all boils down to how strictly you define a Hemi chamber.

You can check out my 69 Fastback with the 5.7 Hemi.

I used a Ram Hemi, trans, computer, wiring and dash cluster with an AlterKation kit and TTI headers.

Daily drivable, mileage and power!

http://www.blueskydynamics.com/1969plymouthbarracuda.html (http://www.blueskydynamics.com/1969plymouthbarracuda.html)

Very nice Robert! Great pics and info, thanks!

If you want to just cruise around and are willing to put all the effort into installing a "new" hemi go that route..if you want to go to the track and kick butt put a stroker in it...as for the hemi they stop making "real" ones in '71...

Id say stroker 6 pack, im pretty sure i remember hearing that thing would whoop stock hemis butts at the track, that is if you want to race but if you want to be unique, ether one would do, you choice but id say stroker 6 pack.

Yea pretty much the new 'hemi' is more of a poly.

408 408 408 408 408 408 408 408 408 408

wacuda
i recently scored a 5.7 hemi and going to put it into my 70dart. i am looking at about 5g to switch it over to carb there is a kit out there and a keisler 5 spd od manual.

i spoke to a guy who has a 5.7 injected hemi in a 68 notchback cuda he stayed fuel injected but still has the keisler 5 spd manual conversion says hes averaging 22mpg with 3.91 rear gears.

as far as what you should do? thats entirely up to you its your wallet hold on to it.

either way good luck and if you decide to go 5.7 hemi i can pm you some links to parts ive found if you want to see some of the stuff im talking about.

duke

A conservative 408 can get over 17mpg in an A body with a carb and 3sp. An EFi version would go past 20 easy, again, 3.23s and 3sp auto. Add an OD stick, and it goes better. I dont think 22-23mpg on low octane unleaded is easy doable. If you were going with AlterKation of suspension to make it handle well, then I'd go new Hemi. Otherwise, go 4" stroke. My .02...

I would love to check out some links to anything they have or find! Post them or PM me. I appreciate everyones input eventhough it seems to be a dead heat between the two, but the info is good to have.

Another vote for a fuel-injected 408 - best of both worlds and far less installation headache. The only 'hassle' is to sort out the engine management system.

The Edelbrock system is pricey but complete and IMO will still put you ahead of the 3G hemi money wise considering the inevitable trans swap, engine mounting, etc.

Check it out here (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/efi/pf_intro.shtml). I'd run this system in a heartbeat if I had a vehicle for it.

Why not stroke a new Hemi? There are all sorts of stroker kits out there for the new hemi now. The more popular stroker kits give you 392 cid or 426 cid of displacement.

The one question no one has asked is why not stick with the 360? The 360 is a great motor in an A-body very easy to get over 400HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque, they will get decent gas mileage if set up correctly and can push you car into the 12's with little effort.

If I were you and was looking to make a hot daily driver I would stick with your low mileage 360 and put some sort of OD tranny behind it.

Oh Yea, I am you!! Already did that :)

I have a 360 that is making ~370 HP gets 17-18 mpg in daily driving and 21-22 on the hiway. I have run a very very traction limited best of 13.7 in the 1/4 with an A833OD 4spd and 3.55 gears. Its in a 68 Barracuda and the car has been my daily driver from April to November since 2000 and has had the 360 in it since 2005 (23k miles so far).

The 408 would be nice but I don't know if the fun factor would go up enough to warrant the hit in gas mileage.

Why not stroke a new Hemi? There are all sorts of stroker kits out there for the new hemi now. The more popular stroker kits give you 392 cid or 426 cid of displacement.

The one question no one has asked is why not stick with the 360? The 360 is a great motor in an A-body very easy to get over 400HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque, they will get decent gas mileage if set up correctly and can push you car into the 12's with little effort.

If I were you and was looking to make a hot daily driver I would stick with your low mileage 360 and put some sort of OD tranny behind it.

Oh Yea, I am you!! Already did that :)

I have a 360 that is making ~370 HP gets 17-18 mpg in daily driving and 21-22 on the hiway. I have run a very very traction limited best of 13.7 in the 1/4 with an A833OD 4spd and 3.55 gears. Its in a 68 Barracuda and the car has been my daily driver from April to November since 2000 and has had the 360 in it since 2005 (23k miles so far).

The 408 would be nice but I don't know if the fun factor would go up enough to warrant the hit in gas mileage.

Good points, but if you go with EFI, you could dial back the fuel curve to commuter levels then when you want to get on the loud pedal more power is just a click away. There's no way a carb can compete with FI for economy assuming that's part of your equation.

Some sort of OD would also increase mileage, definitely. An A-518 might work too if you already have an auto in there, but I think it may require some floor surgery.

EFI is definately the way to go for economy but I wonder if the cost of EFI will ever be recouped in gas savings.

A well sorted out carb can get awful close to EFI numbers in regards to economy.

360's are ok...strokers are much more fun,i own both so i know firsthand...

has anyone heard about a new gen aluminum block hemi? i know a few web-sites are advertising them for about $9000 but has there been any Mopar news?

Why not stroke a new Hemi? There are all sorts of stroker kits out there for the new hemi now. The more popular stroker kits give you 392 cid or 426 cid of displacement.

The one question no one has asked is why not stick with the 360? The 360 is a great motor in an A-body very easy to get over 400HP and 400 ft-lbs of torque, they will get decent gas mileage if set up correctly and can push you car into the 12's with little effort.

If I were you and was looking to make a hot daily driver I would stick with your low mileage 360 and put some sort of OD tranny behind it.

Oh Yea, I am you!! Already did that :)

I have a 360 that is making ~370 HP gets 17-18 mpg in daily driving and 21-22 on the hiway. I have run a very very traction limited best of 13.7 in the 1/4 with an A833OD 4spd and 3.55 gears. Its in a 68 Barracuda and the car has been my daily driver from April to November since 2000 and has had the 360 in it since 2005 (23k miles so far).

The 408 would be nice but I don't know if the fun factor would go up enough to warrant the hit in gas mileage.

21-22 on the hiwy with a 360/3.55s/4-spd!? Wow, are you sure you measured correctly? I can't beat 16 mpg with mine and I have a very similar setup, but make a bit less HP and run 3.23s.

~Bill

The 4spd is an overdrive unit, I am only turning a tick over 2000 rpm at 70 mph. I tried a bunch of different carbs. The Holley 3310 750 got about 16-17 on the hiway. The Holley 670 Street Avenger I am using now picked up 5 mpg.

The 4spd is an overdrive unit, I am only turning a tick over 2000 rpm at 70 mph. I tried a bunch of different carbs. The Holley 3310 750 got about 16-17 on the hiway. The Holley 670 Street Avenger I am using now picked up 5 mpg.

OIC ... FWIW I run a B/G RD 625. the 4spd is mnl

evey thing you need to do to put in a 5.7 startes at 500$ oil pan 500 intake 500$ an the list grows on if you let it be efi fast engineering 2500 for wiring an control box . getting ready to do one for a friend we will see if he is still friend after finished lol

Assuming the motors yield similar power, consider the cost and the hassle of either. My Setup:
408 cast crank stroker from Hughes - 9.9:1 compression (too low!)
87 Octane street, 93 Octane strip
mild port/polish on Edelbrock al perf heads, closed chamber, fresh valve job
M1 single plane airgap with gasket match (heads too)
Street - Edel 1406 600 cfm carb, vacuum secondaries
Strip - Holley 750 with proform center
Comp roller .544/.541 236/242 110 centerline
FBO ignition, ditributor curved to 16 inital, 34 total @ 2900 rpm
Hooker comp 1 5/8" headers (dented bottoms on driver side, naturally) 3" collector
2.5" pipe to flowmasters into 2" pipe (looks to be OE) into a-body tips
3000 stall TCI streetmaster - 727 manual reverse
3.73 Dana into 28" slicks for strip, 28" street radials

My best time at strip with the Holley, Slicks and open headers is 12.35. On the highway, with the 28" radials and the Edel 600, I can get ~14 mpg at 67 mph, tacking right at 3000. There is probably more in the motor as it is, but I am somewhat happy for now. Oh, and BTW, the car is very streetable, and pulls away from the light with no stumble surge or issues. A great driver, and fun. Incidentally, to stroke the 360 and drop in in place of the 340 required NO modification to the frame, body, tranny tunnel, or anything else. On that basis alone, I would vote 408 Stroker.

evey thing you need to do to put in a 5.7 startes at 500$ oil pan 500 intake 500$ an the list grows on if you let it be efi fast engineering 2500 for wiring an control box . getting ready to do one for a friend we will see if he is still friend after finished lol

It would be cool to know how much was invested after everything is said and done.


A EFInjected 408 would be killer. The motor would have each of both worlds then. LOL

deep pockets ..... every thing ive found starts around 500$ oil pan ,intake to name a few fast makes a program an controller for around 2500 thats with the wiring harness . use the truck manifolds they breath better . i seen the other day in one of the rags that there making mounts for them now too . a friend an i had this thought for a while now in his 70 dart swinger .then it went to his 70 coronet . when he makes up his mine we will stick one in. we already have 2 of them . to be honest i would do a 6.1 instead or a viper motor

deep pockets ..... every thing ive found starts around 500$ oil pan ,intake to name a few fast makes a program an controller for around 2500 thats with the wiring harness . use the truck manifolds they breath better . i seen the other day in one of the rags that there making mounts for them now too . a friend an i had this thought for a while now in his 70 dart swinger .then it went to his 70 coronet . when he makes up his mine we will stick one in. we already have 2 of them . to be honest i would do a 6.1 instead or a viper motor

Yeah, a 6.1 in an A-body would get maybe 1-2 MPG less but would be fast as HELL. 12-second 1/4-mile no sweat!

I'm a bit biased though. I just scored a nice 5.7. I still need to get the wire harness and computer controller but the price I got the engine for makes up for it. It's going to cost more for headers but it's worth it in the end for me and what I'm doing.

wacuda here you go should be enough to keep you reading for a while.
1 and 2 are 5 spd manual kits
3 is the new hemi stroker kits ,
4 hemi6 box ,
5 carb conversion kit which includes the hemi6 box ,
6 is a tech articles on A body with new hemi swap allready done by magazine.
7 is a magazine write up with dyno results from installing the xvmotorsports kit from #5

enjoy duke :)

http://www.keislerauto.com/index.php?/wizard.html?starterMake=mopar

http://www.classicmopar5speed.com/1967-76-A-Body-Kit-Select.aspx

http://www.indyheads.com/newhemi.html

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=msd%2D6013&view=1&N=700+

http://www.xvmotorsports.com/products/category/index.cfm?cid=120&lvl=1

http://www.hotrod.com/howto/hrdp_0706_hemi_swap/index.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0803phr_57l_hemi_engine_build/index1.html

all this stuff for sale is advertised in www.moparmusclemagazine.com (http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com)

i took some time to actually read all the adds and look up some websites .

probably doesnt need said but i am a big fan of that magazine.

good luck which ever way you decide to go. hemi or 408 stroker honestly i would be happy with either of them in my ride. they both have very strong selling points. if you are like me your wallet makes alot of decisions for you lol

good luck
duke :)

Just finished my 68' Dart 6.1 Hemi - I highly recommend the 408 small block!

Just finished my 68' Dart 6.1 Hemi - I highly recommend the 408 small block!

I officially nominate this is the baddest 68' Dart ever!

Great job!

408 is the only way to go..

I officially nominate this is the baddest 68' Dart ever!

Great job!

Thanks Man!

I suggest anyone doing a 3G Hemi look at some of the http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=36555
and http://www.bigblockdart.com/index.php/topic,25852.0.html threads.

Good Luck!

Just finished my 68' Dart 6.1 Hemi - I highly recommend the 408 small block!


LOL.. That is why I said what I said. Wicked car, and really cool job. But "bolt it in" is a stretch... in both effort and wallet.

LOL.. That is why I said what I said. Wicked car, and really cool job. But "bolt it in" is a stretch... in both effort and wallet.

Agreed! Save your sanity and your money and go with the mopar small or big block.
There were many times I wanted to just jerk the Hemi out and call it quits. I blame the frustration on the aftermarket manufacturers that have no shame taking your money and leaving you in the dust.
The only guy that stepped up to the plate was Bill Reilly with the Alterkation front end RMS Chassis components. The rest of them can go "you know what" themselves.

Agreed! Save your sanity and your money and go with the mopar small or big block.
There were many times I wanted to just jerk the Hemi out and call it quits. I blame the frustration on the aftermarket manufacturers that have no shame taking your money and leaving you in the dust.
The only guy that stepped up to the plate was Bill Reilly with the Alterkation front end RMS Chassis components. The rest of them can go "you know what" themselves.


I would agree.....I'm still waiting on parts that were supposed to be done in August

408 is the only way to go..

Unless you build a 416..:-D

Just finished my 68' Dart 6.1 Hemi - I highly recommend the 408 small block!

power wise? or installation wise?

Both!!!

Something always had me wondering about these 'new' hemis too....

I think as with a lot of things, new R&D is never as fast as the sales people say. It's nothing new. "We need a deposit to get you on the list..." How much? "Well, it's easiest to pay the whole thing, then it will ship as soon as they are made." When is that? "Well, right now they are being flogged on a test car, but we should have them ready to go in about 2 months." Ok, here's my card #... 6 mths later... "Hello?" yeah, this is Mr xx... you charged my card 6 months ago, and your delivery expectation was 2 months. I now owe extra money for storage, and I have to move the car because of the weather ands torage for the winter. When are we looking at now? "Well, we did have a couple problems with the foundry... the metal wasnt what it needed to be. We couldnt use the softer stuff... it's just not safe. So we ran a new batch, they are being machined... I think probably another couple weeks and we'll be ready to ship. If you want, we'll overnight yours and bill your card. We still have it on file...." ...fast forward another 4 months... "hello?" Hi, is this mark in tech? mark, I did get me Wdget. But I've got the car apart, and in order to get it to fit,it has to be modified... Is this normal? "Well, it's not a factory part, and Mopars are notorious for loose specs on the unibodies. usually it's just a matter of enlarging the holes and it will jump on itself." Really? Because I enlarged two of the four... but in order to get the other two in the right spot, I'd be grinding thru the side plates. "Oh, well try putting the other side in first." I did... twice... before I oveled the holes. "oh.. really? We've never run int that before. Your car must have been hit..." It's my grandmothers. It was never hit. "Oh. Well... um..." Look, if you can't tell me what I need to do, can you send me another one? Maybe this one's bad... "Well, we dont usually do that because you've already modified it." But you told me that was your next step. "But you did it prior to calling us..." Mark? "Yeah?" You're an _SSHOLE. I'm going to pay shipping to return this POS because I dont think I wat to see it in the scrap pile and when I see you guys at Carlisle I'm going to camp in front of your rig with pictures and yell at people you d__chebag... "Well... um... Let me see what we can do. I have another one, but it's a test model. If you pay shipping, I'll send it to you, and you can keep the first one..."

My favorite line besides "..like 2 weeks..." is "We've never seen that before..." I applaud you finishing that Dart. It is Bad ass.

My favorite line ... is "We've never seen that before..."

Oh, man I thought I was the only one. I hope vendors don't get ahold of your list, it's like a training manual!

I don't get mad at inexperience or ignorance. Everyone is new at everything once. I do get mad at prepaying and then eating BS for a while. And it doesn't matter the Widget. Seems it's en vogue now to do a press release, get in a magazine, never have the parts in the pipeline, and take payments. I'll put my name on a list, but I'll never prepay (before they are shown in stock to ship) again. I've changed designs and fabbed up stuff to avoid it. It's easier, and sometimes cheaper.

well I appreciate everyone's responses. I think I'm going to go with the EFI 408 set up but it might take a little bit considering I'm trying to go to grad school next year and don't have deep enough pockets.

Also my engine has less than 1000 miles since it was rebuilt, how bad of an idea (if possible) to not get the full stroker kit(bearings, etc). Just everything needed to stroke it out(crank, rods,etc.).?????

sorry if this is a ridiculous question I'm learning as I go.

Thanks everyone for everything.
Grant

It's a bad idea. You can put the same bearing shells back into the same spot in the block or rod as long as it's all riding on the same crank if they are unharmed. Otherwise you've already crushed that bearing in a bore and if that bore is a different one the crush may be different, like not enough.

Those tabs on the bearings shells only serve to locate them in the bore, it's the crush that keeps them from spinning. Unless of course you've pinned them, which is another story altogether.

BTW Chrysler has released 5.7 and 6.1 long blocks at very reasonable prices. Hell a new 5.7 short block is only about $1800.

there are several ways of installing the new gen hemi,,all tho i have talked to all of them,,i have not delt with them or purchased any componets for the new gen hemi,.but im highly considering one for my street rod,,if i can find a motor reasonable,,

XV MOTOR SPORTS has a kit, computer, intake and jetted carb for 1300.00 all tho the intake is a single plane its the cheapest kit i know of to get a new gen hemi running,,

then there is arrington engines,, they have a kit to eliminate the computer and go to a distributor,,not cheap and last time i talked with them they still didnt have an exact price,or a supplier for the distributor,,

then there is street and performance,,they were the first to install a new gen hemi in a old school vehicle,,i would talk with them first before i bought any ones parts or kits,,

Drivability, torque ?? Hemi , 402 ?? Seems like 6 of one - half dozen of the other to me. Just have to sit down and decide what YOU REALLY WANT, then it's simple. Me ?? I'd buy a stroker kit and be done with it.

whats rockin - I am looking at the same deal - but with a 73 Duster - Ive gotten a lot of info from STREET&PERFORMANCE- I started out with going 340 -416 stroker kit after the shop sold my crank - now lost and looking in to the 5.7 HEMI ive got some info with runing a 3.91 gear and a 904 and the math about 21mpgs - now with Abodys you have some clearnce problems with stearing - kframe - But STREET & PERFOMANCE has a DVD that has helped me out a bit u should look at that the phone # is 479-394-5711-

also note this web sit CAR-PART.COM you can find used 2003 -04 HEMI with out MDS from salvage Trucks all and all best rout I think

if you come across a block with MDS you can get a plug to block it off,,no other mods needed ,,runs like a non MDS motor

Well I guess I'm an odd ball... I'm going w/a 5.7L based stroker..... I'll trow the XV intake ontop along w/a sh!t load of nitrous direct ported of course..... use my built 757, TTI headers and motor mounts and be done......

I have the same stroker in my heavy ass 06 charger and w/full interior I run 11.85 @116.... 4412 lb car too.... now if my Dart is 3200 lbs welll... u can do the math plus the 4.10 gears... lets just say I better be in the mid to high 10's on motor then hit it w/the bottle.... then its game on.

Good luck fellas

I built an Eddy headed 408 for my 68 notch, and I can tell you that the difference from my 380 horse 360 crate and 408 are unbelievable. At 95 degrees and my horrible tuning skills as I'm a novice, I went 12.1 @113 without effort. Now that I know to remove the huge coil springs from my MSD and replace with the lighter springs, and run a larger carb, I should be into the 11's with ease. That was also with a mismatching throttle cable and only 3/4 throttle!!!!! This is a pump gas street car by the way. At the Mopar Nats I kicked big block ass all day long in the steet classes. I have an 09 Challenger SRT8 6speed on the way, but I don't think it will hold a candle to the 408 on the track. On the highway, yeah, it may be a different story. But you can't go wrong with the 408. Just my .02.

Has anyone put a a833 4-speed behind a new gen hemi?

Following this thread ... Mopar Action, in a recent issue states that you can't run power steering with the GenIII hemi(ED: won't fit in the A-body, that is). It's my understanding that this engine is a bit lighter than the smallblock even with alum heads, but just the same, might be a consideration.

Following this thread ... Mopar Action, in a recent issue states that you can't run power steering with the GenIII hemi(ED: won't fit in the A-body, that is). It's my understanding that this engine is a bit lighter than the smallblock even with alum heads, but just the same, might be a consideration.

Remember the new Hemi has aluminum heads. If they did Dimensional Analysis on the LA/Magnum block it would probably be even lighter with aluminum heads.

Sorry to revive an old thread but didn't want to start another either.

Are there any updates on these 3G hemi projects?

I just about have all the parts for my 73 Duster/5.7 project. I have the MSD ignition system, XV intake (carbed) TTI mounts and working on the C'ed Durango pan that Sam Harper used.
I'm particularly interested in the Cherokee manifolds that someone was going to modify.

Thx,

Sorry to revive an old thread but didn't want to start another either.

Are there any updates on these 3G hemi projects?

I just about have all the parts for my 73 Duster/5.7 project. I have the MSD ignition system, XV intake (carbed) TTI mounts and working on the C'ed Durango pan that Sam Harper used.
I'm particularly interested in the Cherokee manifolds that someone was going to modify.

Thx,

I am NOT doing this. However, I am considering it for the future. As such, I am very interested as well, and have been following the topic in general. Mopar Action's last issue shows a '72 Dart Swinger with the 5.7 truck engine. The article points out, if I remember correctly, that the Jeep manifolds worked well. See if you can get a hold of the issue.

I am NOT doing this. However, I am considering it for the future. As such, I am very interested as well, and have been following the topic in general. Mopar Action's last issue shows a '72 Dart Swinger with the 5.7 truck engine. The article points out, if I remember correctly, that the Jeep manifolds worked well. See if you can get a hold of the issue.

That was a FABO member (can't remember his name) who built that Dart. I'm sure he can give you some tips.

they guy with the orange dart with the 5.7 is now building a srt 6.1 barracuda, there is a topic on it on this board,,he is using all factory componets,,,


i have been researching this for 2 years,,its not a cheap deal,you can get a motor and trans cheaper then the after market electronics,,if you get a donor vehicle that is the cheapest way,maybe not the easiest way,,

arrington engines has a distributor conversion now,which eliminates all the electronics if you use a carb,,but a intake from mopar for a carb is 800 bucks while they last,,mopar built after market parts are drying up,,,

XV seems to have the cheapest kit ,,if its what it says it is,, they use the F.A.S.T. computer,and from what i just read,,unless XV MOTOR SPORTS is pre programming the puter,,it has no start up program in it,,you need a lap top,,and hopefully F.A.S.T has good tech service,,

the mopar plug and play they say is the easiest computer to program,and is pre flashed for a basic start up program,,you stil need a lap top with this conversion also,,


the people to call on this deal is street and performance, some know it as hot rod lane,, he was the first to do a 5.7 and 6.1 conversion,,and a nice guy to talk too

I am NOT doing this. However, I am considering it for the future. As such, I am very interested as well, and have been following the topic in general. Mopar Action's last issue shows a '72 Dart Swinger with the 5.7 truck engine. The article points out, if I remember correctly, that the Jeep manifolds worked well. See if you can get a hold of the issue.


I think that may have been Sam Harpers Green dart. I have been in contact w/ him. Thanks for the tip, though.

Also you can talk to Ben Grasso over at http://www.plumfloored.com/ Vortech fed 3G HEMI stroker = 1000 hp!!! Oooooooooooh yeah baby! :thumblef::thumleft:

Also you can talk to Ben Grasso over at http://www.plumfloored.com/ Vortech fed 3G HEMI stroker = 1000 hp!!! Oooooooooooh yeah baby! :thumblef::thumleft:

Pass on that guy.......

Both!!!

So your not happy with how your car goes?
Those 6.1's move i hear!
Standard cam still?
Im sure with a reflash/tune an cam they wake up nicely!

Im sorry to hear that.
But as others have told you,man your dart looks AWESOME.
Very impressive!
Ever ran it down the 1/4?


An jimmy,what was your mph when you did the 12.3 ?

Every time open the hood what do you see? go with what you see. Mark

Six pack on a 408 4 sure !!

Six pak on a Hemi, fuel injected!

OP said...... Daily Driver.

Todays gas prices....../6

Highly reccomend you obtain the book BIG-INCH mopar small blocks by Jim Szilagyi a Chrysler engineer. www.cartechbooks.com. I have a 68 340 block and mopar crank to do 416 stroker engine. The parts list is contained in the book, after considering the cost of parts and cost of machine work, I started to consider a mopar 5.7 engine for my 74 duster. Still in hold mode looking for more info.

i am seriously considering an efi hemi in my duster. i dont think for one second it is worth it as far as bang for buck. the part the really pisses me off and keeps me from wanting to do it, is the electronics side of it. 1,000$ for a pre made wiring harness to be able to run a o.e.m. computer? how much does it really cost to build that harness. minimum 2,000$ for an aftermarket management system? bunch of crooks out there. to me there is no point of running a carb on one of these engines, way too much money and effort involved to really get no advantage over a carbed small or bigblock. you can build a motor and get it running for less than you can have a junkyard engine and trans sitting in your a body, but not yet running.

Well, let me chime in again here, as I have a modded 2009 SRT-8 Chally 6-Speed and a 68 Notchback with a very beefy 408. The Cuda will hand the Chally it's @$$ on a dragstrip, but they are 2 different animals. On the highway, dam the Chally is awesome! I think the 6.1 is the wave of the future, but after bolting on a set of Eddy's ported and milled by RyanJ, get ready to beef up your tranny and rear end. The 6.1 doesn't hit its powerband until about 3 grand. The 408 comes in much sooner, even with a large roller cam. I say go with the 408 for now and let the aftermarket catch up on few more things for the 3rd gen.

Iam running a 340 stroker with a 6pk and love it. runs great and the gas milage i can live with.

Iam running a 340 stroker with a 6pk and love it. runs great and the gas milage i can live with.

I'm planning a 408 stroker. Are you using outboard carbs for a 340 or 440? I read that you should use the 440 carbs on a stroker since they were originally spec'd for an engine with a similar displacement, but I already have a set of the 340 carbs.

I would say that the 340 6 pak was over carbed..with the stroker the 340 carbs should do just fine.

It depends on cash flow and what you want out of it! I did the 5.7L swap in my cuda. If you wanted a stock 5.7L the price isn't too bad. Figure on a stock 345hp engine install. Here are the parts you would need for the install. 5.7L stock hemi $2000, TTI headers are around $720, Motor mounts $130, oil filter block off plate for an a body $67 and a remote mount oil filter kit $55. The 5.7L has the same bell housing aria as a SB so your trans will bolt right up but you will need to change the flex plate $90 (if you have the small 5/16 bolts on your converter you will need to buy the seperate spacer kit $30 because the new flex plates are made with 7/16 holes only) and if you have a weighted converter, the converter needs to be replaced for neutral ballance or cut the weight off. The cheapest way is a carbureted setup. MSD hemi 6 $500, MSD wiring harness $200, stock coil packs, your existing 4 bbl carb and a carbureted intake around $600. The stock radiator and shroud for the newer 1970 and up aluminum water pump can be used if you change the thermostat housing from stock to an SB one that has been milled flat. You need to use a truck timing chain cover with the stock truck fan clutch and an aftermarket smaller reverse rotation fan. It will be in and running but the you havn't even hooked up the accys or done any mods for more power. I changed mine over to be different and to do something that isn't done that much even though it is getting more popular but for the extra money that was spent building and installing the 5.7L you can build the 408 into a monster. It's a matter of preference. Take a look at my pics!! It does turn out cool lookin in the end. Joe:snakeman:

and no power steering!!! The manual box and the headers need to go in together (after massaging the steering box with a die grinder) without the tortion bars in. Thanks!!!

It depends on cash flow and what you want out of it! I did the 5.7L swap in my cuda. If you wanted a stock 5.7L the price isn't too bad. Figure on a stock 345hp engine install. Here are the parts you would need for the install. 5.7L stock hemi $2000, TTI headers are around $720, Motor mounts $130, oil filter block off plate for an a body $67 and a remote mount oil filter kit $55. The 5.7L has the same bell housing aria as a SB so your trans will bolt right up but you will need to change the flex plate $90 (if you have the small 5/16 bolts on your converter you will need to buy the seperate spacer kit $30 because the new flex plates are made with 7/16 holes only) and if you have a weighted converter, the converter needs to be replaced for neutral ballance or cut the weight off. The cheapest way is a carbureted setup. MSD hemi 6 $500, MSD wiring harness $200, stock coil packs, your existing 4 bbl carb and a carbureted intake around $600. The stock radiator and shroud for the newer 1970 and up aluminum water pump can be used if you change the thermostat housing from stock to an SB one that has been milled flat. You need to use a truck timing chain cover with the stock truck fan clutch and an aftermarket smaller reverse rotation fan. It will be in and running but the you havn't even hooked up the accys or done any mods for more power. I changed mine over to be different and to do something that isn't done that much even though it is getting more popular but for the extra money that was spent building and installing the 5.7L you can build the 408 into a monster. It's a matter of preference. Take a look at my pics!! It does turn out cool lookin in the end. Joe:snakeman:

AFTER MARKET SMALLER WATER PUMP ??

and no power steering!!! The manual box and the headers need to go in together (after massaging the steering box with a die grinder) without the tortion bars in. Thanks!!!


Is that a pic of your car racing in your avatar!?
If so,How fast did it go?

AFTER MARKET SMALLER WATER PUMP ??
The water pump is stock but the stock truck fan is too big to fit in the shroud. Permacool makes a smaller REVERSE ROTATION (I put it in all caps because it's important!!!) fan. It is available in many different sizes. I used the stock truck fan clutch with the smaller fan.

Is that a pic of your car racing in your avatar!?
If so,How fast did it go?
So far a best of 12.60 @110.8mph and an awfull 2.070 60' because my converter is way too tight. No N2O, 3600 lbs, and 345cid. I hope to have it in the high 11s next year after the torque converter change and some more tweaking.

So far a best of 12.60 @110.8mph and an awfull 2.070 60' because my converter is way too tight. No N2O, 3600 lbs, and 345cid. I hope to have it in the high 11s next year after the torque converter change and some more tweaking.

Man thats a horrible 60 ft,which is good news
so plenty of potential there!
Are you sure your car is that heavy?
I dont think it is,specially with the 5.7 hemi in it etc.
But i dunno,maybe you got a big audio system setup in it or something!
Get it to a weightbridge,you might be suprised;)

So its a standard the motor,aside from headers an exhaust
an tune?

Man thats a horrible 60 ft,which is good news
so plenty of potential there!
Are you sure your car is that heavy?
I dont think it is,specially with the 5.7 hemi in it etc.
But i dunno,maybe you got a big audio system setup in it or something!
Get it to a weightbridge,you might be suprised;)

So its a standard the motor,aside from headers an exhaust
an tune?

Well the lightest steel, street trim, small block abody I have seen is between 3300 and 3400 lbs and I'm a big boy bending the scales at 360lbs. So if you put us together that should be around 3600 t0 3700 give or take a love handle.:-D

There is practicly nothing stock about my engine. Stilll 345cid but it has a 6.1L steel crank, Eagle H beam rods, custom Ross pistons .020 over and 11-1 comp, A custom Comp cams .556 lift 230@.050 intake .560 lift 234@.050 exhaust camshaft ground on a 108 deg LSA. Cryo treated rockers, adjustable pushrods, custom made lash caps, behive springs and titanium retainers. CNC ported cylinder heads with oversize valves, Edelbrock dual quad intake with dual 500cfm carbs. I know I'm forgetting some small stuff but basicly it's a built street engine. In one of my previous posts, I just listed the stuff to get the 5.7L in the car.

i think i met and talked to you at the kick off party for carlisle , you said you had a small fortune in that 5.7,,, nice car and kool looking motor,,,

Nice car... you need to get intouch with Stu at Inertia Motorsports though.. he built my 5.7 based stroker and it goes in the 10's @ 122 MPH and a 1.52 60' with my 06 Charger (4400 lbs).. The secret is to have the 6.1 ported heads and Intake on the 5.7 block... CAm at Crank This Performance makes an adapter or you can have Stu make ur heads large chambered... The 09 5.7 intake is basicly the same as the 6.1 intake but its plastic and 1/3 the cost...Cams are obviously key to these 3rd gen hemis as well.... my little ole 222/226 is a baby compaired to alot of these guys that have similar engines but mine is .5 sec faster....

Well the lightest steel, street trim, small block abody I have seen is between 3300 and 3400 lbs and I'm a big boy bending the scales at 360lbs. So if you put us together that should be around 3600 t0 3700 give or take a love handle.:-D

There is practicly nothing stock about my engine. Stilll 345cid but it has a 6.1L steel crank, Eagle H beam rods, custom Ross pistons .020 over and 11-1 comp, A custom Comp cams .556 lift 230@.050 intake .560 lift 234@.050 exhaust camshaft ground on a 108 deg LSA. Cryo treated rockers, adjustable pushrods, custom made lash caps, behive springs and titanium retainers. CNC ported cylinder heads with oversize valves, Edelbrock dual quad intake with dual 500cfm carbs. I know I'm forgetting some small stuff but basicly it's a built street engine. In one of my previous posts, I just listed the stuff to get the 5.7L in the car.

So there plenty left in it!?

Any idea of how much power your making?

Nice car ;)

Nice car... you need to get intouch with Stu at Inertia Motorsports though.. he built my 5.7 based stroker and it goes in the 10's @ 122 MPH and a 1.52 60' with my 06 Charger (4400 lbs).. The secret is to have the 6.1 ported heads and Intake on the 5.7 block... CAm at Crank This Performance makes an adapter or you can have Stu make ur heads large chambered... The 09 5.7 intake is basicly the same as the 6.1 intake but its plastic and 1/3 the cost...Cams are obviously key to these 3rd gen hemis as well.... my little ole 222/226 is a baby compaired to alot of these guys that have similar engines but mine is .5 sec faster....

I wanted to run 6.1 heads but no one makes a dual quad intake for them yet and fuel injection dosn't work with what I was going for besides ported 6.1L heads are too large to run on a stock displacement 5.7L. The cam you have won't work for me either. I didn't want a semi smooth Idol. I wanted it to be choppy and pull to 7000rpm. I built just what I wanted, a non stroked 5.7L that dosn't sound like a 5.7L and will run just under a 11.49 so I won't have to put a roll bar in the car. Thanks8)

So there plenty left in it!?

Any idea of how much power your making?

Nice car ;)


Plenty! Power output should be in the 480-500 range.:-D

Ok.. one word of advise though.. If you are wanting to spin the car to 7K you need to look into getting a new valve train...The stock rockers will flex under that amount of rpm's ... if u are running stock 6.1 springs or pac springs will walk... The good news is that Arrington is coming out with new roller rockers that allow a duel behive style spring with custom retainers....

Ok.. one word of advise though.. If you are wanting to spin the car to 7K you need to look into getting a new valve train...The stock rockers will flex under that amount of rpm's ... if u are running stock 6.1 springs or pac springs will walk... The good news is that Arrington is coming out with new roller rockers that allow a duel behive style spring with custom retainers....

That's cool!! I am running single spring comp behives, titanium retainers and I already had my rockers cryo treated beacuse of that reason. The stock rockers are very dainty and thin in stock form, but I really wanted a set of roller rockers!! Jesel makes them at the tune of around $4200 and alot of machining and extra parts. I will have to give Eric Hruza or Mark BurkHardt a call. Thanks for the info!!!

That's cool!! I am running single spring comp behives, titanium retainers and I already had my rockers cryo treated beacuse of that reason. The stock rockers are very dainty and thin in stock form, but I really wanted a set of roller rockers!! Jesel makes them at the tune of around $4200 and alot of machining and extra parts. I will have to give Eric Hruza or Mark BurkHardt a call. Thanks for the info!!!

Eric H can hook you up... tell him I (Jason) told you about them he knows my screen name...He and I have been working on this for some time now... They are in the process of getting the cast rocker made b/c the billet pieces weigh 2x what the stockers weigh...The price should be arounf $1200 for the rockers.. Please dont ask for Mark he passed away this last summer.

Eric H can hook you up... tell him I (Jason) told you about them he knows my screen name...He and I have been working on this for some time now... They are in the process of getting the cast rocker made b/c the billet pieces weigh 2x what the stockers weigh...The price should be arounf $1200 for the rockers.. Please dont ask for Mark he passed away this last summer.

Thanks for the info. The last thing I bought from them was a 3rd gen torque plate and that was 2 years ago. Mark was a nice guy to deal with!! What a shame!

Been paying attention to this topic. Can anyone recommend a good engine shop on LI for Mopars? Also, what should I expect to pay for nice street 408 build? ... decent heads, single plane manifold, steel crank, 2500 - 6000rpm powerband sort of deal.
----
PS: That's Long Island, NY
----
PPS: I located the following link which, if typical, indicates that it might be far more cost effective to build a 360 than a 408:

http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/RaceEngines/tabid/98/Default.aspx?gclid=CJT6xdari58CFQ975Qod3i4FTA

... What do you think?

Been paying attention to this topic. Can anyone recommend a good engine shop on LI for Mopars? Also, what should I expect to pay for nice street 408 build? ... decent heads, single plane manifold, steel crank, 2500 - 6000rpm powerband sort of deal.
----
PS: That's Long Island, NY
----
PPS: I located the following link which, if typical, indicates that it might be far more cost effective to build a 360 than a 408:

http://www.cmengines.com/Engines/RaceEngines/tabid/98/Default.aspx?gclid=CJT6xdari58CFQ975Qod3i4FTA

... What do you think?

As for machine shops in Long island I don't know. As for the 408 It depends on what you have in it but from the way you were talking it should cost somewhere between $4000 to $9,000 and up depending on the internals. Just as an example, You could built a 408 with an eagle cast crank, eagle SIR rods, Hypereutectic pistons, stock heads, hydraulic cam ETC for around $3000-$4000 or you could go somewhere in between for $4000-$9000.

What are your plans for the car? Race Street? Both? That will get you closer to a price.

I don't like buying crate engines because who is to say how the machine work was done or what they used for parts. I checked the link that you posted and all of there engines are around 12-1 which is fine if you are gona race it.

Well I think I will give up on this one for now. To answer hemijoejr ... as I said, a street engine with a steel crank, and I think a nice build, after some research would probably cost about $6K. I have an old 340 steel crank engine that I was thinking about using as the base, but because it's original equip, I was advised by an appraiser not to use it for this.

I think it would be much more cost effective to just port the J heads, cam up and go with a single plane intake, on the Circa '92 crate 360/300. Thanks.

Well I think I will give up on this one for now. To answer hemijoejr ... as I said, a street engine with a steel crank, and I think a nice build, after some research would probably cost about $6K. I have an old 340 steel crank engine that I was thinking about using as the base, but because it's original equip, I was advised by an appraiser not to use it for this.

I think it would be much more cost effective to just port the J heads, cam up and go with a single plane intake, on the Circa '92 crate 360/300. Thanks.

If you have the money. Send the heads to Hughes engines for a stage one port job (for the stock size 360) some roller rockers, I think that engine has a hydraulic roller cam so go with something in the 225deg @ .050 range on a 110LSA with an edelbrock air gap. AND CHECK YOUR CLEARANCES!!! Should run nice!!:toothy10:

Yes it's a hydr cam - I forget the specs, but I think it's PS 474/474 (P#312-P4452993 on JEGS), if that rings any bells. From what I hear Crane or Comp seem like the cams to go with nowaday. What needs changing to use a roller cam with the old J heads? I know there's much info here about that, but is there a Q&D ans on that?

Yes it's a hydr cam - I forget the specs, but I think it's PS 474/474 (P#312-P4452993 on JEGS), if that rings any bells. From what I hear Crane or Comp seem like the cams to go with nowaday. What needs changing to use a roller cam with the old J heads? I know there's much info here about that, but is there a Q&D ans on that?

OK I think that block from the factory has a hydraulic roller cam. If it is then it's an easy change. If you don't have that many miles on that engine you can reuse the lifters and just replace the cam to the tune of $305.95 from summit racing COMP Cams 20-810-9 and you must purchase the correct valvesprings. If you want to change a flat tappet engine over to a hydraulic roller then you are looking at lifters (cheapest ones I saw were Hughes engines retrofits $399 and a cam at 305.95 and springs. The engine block must be checked for clearance for the link bar with the retrofit hydraulic roller and pushrod clearance, length must also be checked for both the cam change and the retrofit. It gets a little confusing and hard to explain when I'm typing it out but it is easy to explain face to face. Hope this helps!!!

It does help, thank you. But no, the engine is a flat tappet head set up. And while I am not in the mood to throw money around, I also don't want to skimp. So is there a better, easier, albeit pricier alternative to the "retrofit hydraulic roller" you suggested?

It does help, thank you. But no, the engine is a flat tappet head set up. And while I am not in the mood to throw money around, I also don't want to skimp. So is there a better, easier, albeit pricier alternative to the "retrofit hydraulic roller" you suggested?

Sure!! You can just put a flat tappet back in it. I have used several Hughes engines cams. They make power! so a combination of stock bottom end with an Edelbrock air gap intake Summit Racing $259.95 , hughes stage 1 heads, with the correct springs and retainers installed ready to install $1377.40, HUG HEH2328AL cam $160, lifters $88.00, 1.50 Roller rockers $440.00 and pushrods around $130. I just picked a combination. Subject to your own judgement. Cam should be slightly lopey but not insane.:toothy10:

Sure!! You can just put a flat tappet back in it. I have used several Hughes engines cams. They make power! so a combination of stock bottom end with an Edelbrock air gap intake Summit Racing $259.95 , hughes stage 1 heads, with the correct springs and retainers installed ready to install $1377.40, HUG HEH2328AL cam $160, lifters $88.00, 1.50 Roller rockers $440.00 and pushrods around $130. I just picked a combination. Subject to your own judgement. Cam should be slightly lopey but not insane.:toothy10:

Thanks for the trouble - I really appreciate it!!!

That is not far from what I was thinking myself. Do you think this is markedly/noticeably/meaningfully better than sticking with a flat tappet, just to save a little bother?

Thanks for the trouble - I really appreciate it!!!

That is not far from what I was thinking myself. Do you think this is markedly/noticeably/meaningfully better than sticking with a flat tappet, just to save a little bother?

This combo should be fine expecialy with the hughes cam. High lift for the duration. The one nice thing with the roller cam is almost a zero break in. The flat tappet hydraulic has to be broken in with a specific procedure and you realy should use a specific break oil. An oil addative should be added at every oil change too to be extra sure that you don't have a failure. The government had the oil companys take the good stuff out of engine oil because nowadays most engines run roller valve train components and don't need the extra anti friction additives. Has to do with emissions. If you think about haw many times you change the oil in your toy it dosn't add up to that much. Hope I answered your question?

This combo should be fine expecialy with the hughes cam. High lift for the duration. The one nice thing with the roller cam is almost a zero break in. The flat tappet hydraulic has to be broken in with a specific procedure and you realy should use a specific break oil. An oil addative should be added at every oil change too to be extra sure that you don't have a failure. The government had the oil companys take the good stuff out of engine oil because nowadays most engines run roller valve train components and don't need the extra anti friction additives. Has to do with emissions. If you think about haw many times you change the oil in your toy it dosn't add up to that much. Hope I answered your question?

Yes, zinc, et al ... I have been part of one or more of these threads over time, here and on Allpar. I am currently using a oil with the requisite zinc in it and the car only gets a few hundred miles of use a year. So, thought it'd be nice to go with a synth oil and not be troubled with this issue any longer, it's not a major concern either. Thanks again.