Official 3rd Gen Hemi thread

Hey 3rd Gen Hemi guys - can we start an official thread with links to common modifications, issues, builds, etc? Feel free to post pics, info, links to other sites and retailers - anything that you may feel is relevent to the 3rd Gen Hemi. Let's see some of your builds - what you did, how you did it, and from what places you got your info.

Maybe we can get this thread sticky-ed and use it as a reference.

Sounds good. I'm tuning in :)

Here is my build www.forbbodiesonly.com/latemodelhemiintoearlybbodies.

bad link,try this www.forbbodiesonly.com/latemodelhemiintoearlybbodies

Piss on it, I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here are some links I thought would be useful to anyone contemplating a 2009 - current 5.7 swap. Specifically the Variable cam timing or VCT. And a link to my thread on the subject in Inertia Motorsports forum. They have been quite helpful.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_Hemi_engine
General info .... Note revision for 2009 5.7 'Eagle'

http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?t=138211
VCT info for 2009 5.7 .....good read

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=97262
Discussion on the VCT control issue for 2009 w/ carb.... links here too


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/72006/building_a_late_model_hemi_stroker.aspx
Building a late model stroker..... indepth lots of info

Swap:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0905_hemi_engine_swap_guide/index.html


http://www.hotrod.com/howto/hrdp_0706_hemi_swap/index.html





general engine info...
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0410_daimlerchrysler_new_hemi/index.html

Interresting reads with pics.....:read2:

http://www.bigblockdart.com/forum/showthread.php?5222-3rd.-Generation-Hemi-A-Body-Stuff

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_chrysler_hemi_57_liter_345ci_engine_review/index.html

Engine info


http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0803phr_57l_hemi_engine_build/index.html

carbed 5.7 conversion


http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/smallblockshootout/0602phr_hemi/index.html

cam swap details and dyno #'s

6.1 build

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/HemiTechArticle.pdf

6.1 build

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFs/HemiTechArticle.pdf


FYI....these are good products. A while back there was an issue with the crank that MUST be clearanced to avoid damaging other components. I want to say it was around one of the journals. I can't remember the details at the moment, but be sure and research it just to make sure the crank you get is corrected of you go w/ a K1.

Street and Performance has lots of info and ideas.

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20HEMI%20Tech/HEMI%20links%20page.html

I know I may be a bit on the lazy side but looking thru all of those articals I couldn't find if there is any differences in the years. Is one better for the swap than the other? I have heard the truck Hemi is a bit easier but the car looks better. But are the 2003 the same as a 2007?

There are a couple things to consider.

T will divide them into the mechanical portions and the electronic.

Mechanically, the Truck Hemi has a different water pump housing which holds the alt & PS pump up high in the engine compartment. The car Hemi has those accessories mounted down low which causes interference w/ factory K-members and frames in an A-body. THe intake manifolds are different between the two but can be intercangable w/ some adaptation. Beyond those differences, the engines themselves are the same.


El;ectronically, the trucks factory ECM from the 03 is available as a stand alone ECM, meaning that it doesn not tie in the trans controls. The trans had its on ECM of sorts. The engine OEM ECM is not as tunable and you will be limited to a rather conservative cam, but you can run any smal bolt pattern trans with it.

The later ECM's all include trans controls which can be eliminated by use of an aftermarket tuner (Diablo) and it can also accomodate a wider range of cams.

If you are are satisfied with using w factory engine/cam comination and do not plan to get aggressive w/ the cam, the early truck ECM might be for you. If you are going to get a big cam and other mods, consider a later ECM.

I hope that sums it up for you.

What I'm thinking of is a carb instead of EFI as I like the look. The cam will also be bumped up as I understand this is a weak area and brings a good bang for the buck. As for a trany, I will be running with a manual, not sure 4 or 5 speed at this time. I want it to look period correct and will be using a k-member from a 73 dart that uses the spool mounts. It will have manual steering and power brakes. Not sure about adding AC as it currently doesn't have it. I have come across a couple of affordable engines but am concerned if there are a few to stay away from.

On the other hand, the 2009, 2010 5.7 is quite different. And has great potential with more compression (10.25:1 vs 9.6:1) and revised heads that flow nearly as much 6.1's, or so I have been told. About the only components that are the same are the crank and rods. If running aftermarket intake and headers, 6.1 style must be used.

58 tooth reluctor wheel vs 08 down 31+1 arangement, And the introduction of Variable Cam Timing are the main problems when using this engine in a swap to an older body.

Through persistant poking, prodding and the generous advice of a some (like 392Stu), I have found few options to control this engine. At current time.....

One option reccamended by 392Stu, that is doable now, is to swap to the older style reluctor wheel and weld the cam phaser to the cam sprocket. The MSD HEMI 6 will work if one was to go this route. This may also require new rod bolts as well since they are torque to yeild.

FAST XIM ignition will drive the coils and read the new reluctor wheel (there is a 'dip switch' for this app) Not currently able to handle VCT function. Though more expensive than an MSD set up, one would not have to disassemble the bottom end and replace rod bolts. (Thanks to Rich @ FastManEFI for looking into this)

Electromotive's XDI box will run the ignition and VCT, but, it's high dollar stuff and will need extensive tuning....and maybe a second XDI box! (per Electromotive)

MSD is talking with Mopar Performance to see what they can do........ http://www.msdignition.com/forum/showthread.php?p=63711

Regardless, the MDS lifters and yokes must be replaced with non-MDS units and the 4 solonoids replaced with plugs. As with all MDS 5.7's in retro app.

All in all the 5.7 "Eagle" Hemi has more performance potential than the 08 and older 5.7's but, still has some technical issues to be sorted out. I expect that in time some aftermarket company will work out these issues.

It almost sound like a pre 09 engine with the new heads may be a winning ticket.

With custom piston and/or custom combustion chamber work, Hell yea!

The Eagle head has like 63cc chambers stock.......vs 08 down 84ishcc's

check out the 5.7 VVT Big Chamber Cylinder Heads : http://www.inertiamotorsports.com/cylinderheads.html



That is what I would do if I was not determined to use the 09 I have.

What I'm thinking of is a carb instead of EFI as I like the look. The cam will also be bumped up ....

Here is a link to the build on mine, everything is there.

http://www.crazy4carz.net/carzboard/showthread.php?1136-Not-a-muscle-car-yet-but-soon-Crazy4Carz-Project-Dart&referrerid=1

It is very long. feel free to skip around but the entire build is there. There is even a part on when we manufactured a dolly to roll the engine around and install from under the car (the second time) Build materials are there. and some good how-to stuff. Please ask me any questions. There have been several cosmetic changes since this.

Great info guys! I just joined and i have a couple of Hemi-in-Early A projects going. I´m far away from everything (now living in Argentina), so all help to avoid problems is GREATLY appreciated!

One of the best I have seen. Detailed info, part #'s and pics.



http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Content/Site302/Articles/03_01_2009/46568ChryslerHe_00000019776.pdf

Great pdf, the only thing is, I think they mixed-up the push rod lengths between the 5.7 and the 6.1. I understand the 6.1 has longer pushrods because the difference in the lob heights is taken out of the base circle (not added on to the top of the lobs), thereby needing longer rods.

I'm starting to research a new project to install a 6.1 L Hemi into a 1969 Barracuda Convertible (original 318, 904 with console) and using RMS front and rear suspension. The Keisler 4L60E Hydra-matic kit looks like it will install without any body cutting or mods, but I cant find out for sure if the Mopar 545RFE 5 speed automatic will install without any body mods.

Can someone confirm?
Thanks

One of the best I have seen. Detailed info, part #'s and pics.
>Anybody done a warm-up on 5.7 or 6.1 L ? Engine Masters just did a cam swap and TTI headers(5.7) for 491hp. at 6,800 rpm.


http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Content/Site302/Articles/03_01_2009/46568ChryslerHe_00000019776.pdf
I might consider a good 5 spd. turbo Supra box, behind one.Thanks, ateam 8)

I'm starting to research a new project to install a 6.1 L Hemi into a 1969 Barracuda Convertible (original 318, 904 with console) and using RMS front and rear suspension. The Keisler 4L60E Hydra-matic kit looks like it will install without any body cutting or mods, but I cant find out for sure if the Mopar 545RFE 5 speed automatic will install without any body mods.

Can someone confirm?
Thanks



http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=91570&highlight=545RFE+5+speed+automatic

Do a search for 545FE 5 speed here on FABO, And you will see many threads on the subject. TinCup has a great thread in which he uses a 545fe...:read2:

With the 545rfe you'll need to cut the tunnel and fabricate a new one since the 545 is a huge trans.

Riddler

I'm starting to research a new project to install a 6.1 L Hemi into a 1969 Barracuda Convertible (original 318, 904 with console) and using RMS front and rear suspension. The Keisler 4L60E Hydra-matic kit looks like it will install without any body cutting or mods, but I cant find out for sure if the Mopar 545RFE 5 speed automatic will install without any body mods.

Can someone confirm?
Thanks

The 545RFE trans is very large. I don't think there is any way you can install one in an A body without major floorpan surgery.

I've included some pictures of the work I did.

Thanks for the info on the 545RFE 5 speed automatic.

Another question: What is the Chrysler p/n for the production line 6.1 L hemi engine to use for a swap (instead of the crate engine)?
A vendor here in Ontario, Canada is quoting $6000 CAN for a 2008 production engine (includes wiring harness and manifolds etc), but I wanted to check with my Chrysler dealer for pricing.

"6.1: PN P5155437. It's a bone stock 425HP hemi motor right off the assembly line, has a stock drive by wire throttle body, stock chrome fuel rails, no computer so you get to pick your own...and...well, it's a stock 6.1 Hemi with NO FRILLS.


The deal is the price. Suggested retail: $6,250."


http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5838585&an=0&page=2#Post5838585


That ought to do it. 8)

I put a 06 5.7 in my 70 duster,now have 1200 miles on it,I went the carb route although some have issues with this it is MY car and I wanted a carb for the ol' school look,I have had plenty of issues to work around as to I also went with the ol' school A833 4 speed with a hydrolic clutch ,That in it self was a 6 month back-up on getting the car on the road,it was dynoed on a mustang dyno last week and the results where 367 rwhp

Don't have one

No nothing about them

But I'm learning on this thread. Thx guys. This is all very interesting.

I put a 06 5.7 in my 70 duster,now have 1200 miles on it,I went the carb route although some have issues with this it is MY car and I wanted a carb for the ol' school look,I have had plenty of issues to work around as to I also went with the ol' school A833 4 speed with a hydrolic clutch ,That in it self was a 6 month back-up on getting the car on the road,it was dynoed on a mustang dyno last week and the results where 367 rwhp

Swifter,

is that stock 5.7 or cam/internals, what intake?

Thanks in advance

JOE

engine--06 durango
intake--xv
carb-quick fuel
igniton-hemi-6
cam--comp cams xfi
springs-comp chevy beehives
push rods--6.1 stock
lifters-comp
car-70 duster
trany-A833
rear-end--83/4 with 3.91's
radiator-afco racing wide core
fan-be-cool

Swifter,

sweet, thanks for the breakdown,

the XFI 260, 268, or 273??

lifters, comp cams?? because of the MDS?? did you have to delete MDS on the block also??

273-cam
lifters to eliminate--MDS

6.1-pushrods--to eliminate Hemi tick

Mds-eliminator kit from shop hemi.com
TTi-oil filter block -off kit--DO NOT BUY XV's--they leak
tilton--hydrolic throw out bearing
TTi-a body headers
schumaker-motor mounts
Flaming river close ratio steering box
oil filter relocation kit--shop hemi.com
Milidon-6 quart pan
Milidon dip-stick

Swifter,

THANKS!

I was curoius about you combo, and the cam swap parts... hopefully someday soon I can start to gather parts.

JOE

I put a 06 5.7 in my 70 duster,now have 1200 miles on it,I went the carb route although some have issues with this it is MY car and I wanted a carb for the ol' school look,I have had plenty of issues to work around as to I also went with the ol' school A833 4 speed with a hydrolic clutch ,That in it self was a 6 month back-up on getting the car on the road,it was dynoed on a mustang dyno last week and the results where 367 rwhp
Nice dyno number. That means its probably ~ 400hp at the crank.

You and I have almost the same setup except going into a 73 Duster w/ a 70 nose & 727 trans.

Finished my Trans mount and thought I would share. Now the beast of a trans is right where I want it.

Nice job....

well thought out

Nice job....
I've read, in this forum, 485 lbs and more recently 533 lbs., they compared it to the weight of an all iron sbc. 485 lbs without accessories ? Thanks, ateam.8-[

My '09 5.7 weighs 537lbs. fully dressed with all accessories, auto flywheel, '09 variable runner truck intake and truck exhaust manifolds. No oil, No wiring harness. As weighed on very accurate, brand new salvage scale.

want to carburate a 5.7 and use the 727. is the MSD hemi-6 and harness all i need to run this. was also looking at 750 mighty demon, 273 cam etc and fabricate my own headers.

No, it absolutely is too big. Just installed a 545RFE tranny from PATC, in a '69 Dart, and I cut the entire floor out. It looks like I will be able to reuse the cut-out, by raising it up and adding patch pieces in to raise its height. The tranny is very fat in the middle, completely opposite of the 727 trans, which must be the 4 clutch pack and overdrive. This fatness in the middle take out the main cross member under you legs, so I will have to rebuild the geometry of hump in the cross member. I will send pics as I fab it in. I have almost 300 pics, but I need to shrink their file sizes to send to you guys.

I went with the square look like in my Challenger. I see what it will look like in my head with the center console anyway.

This way i have plenty of leg room still and the seats still move nicely.

I'm starting to research a new project to install a 6.1 L Hemi into a 1969 Barracuda Convertible (original 318, 904 with console) and using RMS front and rear suspension. The Keisler 4L60E Hydra-matic kit looks like it will install without any body cutting or mods, but I cant find out for sure if the Mopar 545RFE 5 speed automatic will install without any body mods.

Can someone confirm?
Thanks
No, it absolutely does not fit without a lot of floor modifications. See FABO Forum on 3rd Gen Hemi Swaps. I just posted a lengthy expalnation of what I am going thru to weld up the floor. We have a 6.1 Hemi, 545RFE going into a 69 Dart.

No, it absolutely does not fit without a lot of floor modifications. See FABO Forum on 3rd Gen Hemi Swaps. I just posted a lengthy expalnation of what I am going thru to weld up the floor. We have a 6.1 Hemi, 545RFE going into a 69 Dart.

I've completely changed my plans - now going to install Jamie Passon's 5 speed OD manual tranny.

My plan currently is to buy the TCI 6X. I'm sure the floor/tunnel will have to come out.

Hi, all , I put a 04' Hemi Motor and Trans. in a 01' Dakota Quad cab. in 2009. A woman pulled out in front of me totaling it in 11' . So I removed the Motor + transmission and installed them into a 02' Ram Quad cab. Both builds are on. www.DodgeForum.com.
.Dakota Hemi Swap with pics... and 02' ram get HemiDak-Quads 04 Hemi.
The Dakota build has ECM and TCM Pin~outs. and a lot of info , along with a long burnout..My name on that sight is HemiDak-Quad..

Welcome aboard. Could you do me a fav and post a link to that thread of yours? I would love to see that myself. (Also being I own a '03 quad cab Dakota.)

Welcome aboard. Could you do me a fav and post a link to that thread of yours? I would love to see that myself. (Also being I own a '03 quad cab Dakota.)

here is a link from hemidakota

http://www.customdakotas.com/forums/v8-performance/13977-dakota-hemi-swap-done-heres-how-2.html

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-dakota/229756-dakota-hemi-swap-with-pics.html

Thanks Rapid...

Thanks Rapid...

we're all here to help:D

What are you guys doing regarding the cats and dogs? Kidding, just the cats. I presume since you don't have to meet emissions you're not running them. I'm interested in doing a cat delete (never did like those critters). I've been looking at O2 simulators, but so far the info is sketchy. I suspect it would be in the threads listed but finding it is daunting.

I am running mine with out the cats, but the o2 sensors are still there

Interesting. I was under the impression that would generate error signals.

With a 5.9 engine purchase I got the o2 simulator that was on it. The mechanic who sold it figured it would function for a 5.7 hemi.

I'd like to learn more about it and figured you guys have dealt with this and might have an easy answer. I don't want to mess up this sticky so I'll post elsewhere.