360 timing

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Lets see if I got this right; You bought a Dart with a 537 hp/13:1 motor,Knowing pretty much nothing about how to set it up or what to run it on, and you want to tool around in it? This has got trouble written all over it. Get rid of that motor before you blow it up.
 
I'll take it off your hands. I'll pull the 360 out of my dart and trade for yours.
Seriousely that thing needs to be de-tuned for the street. New pistons and smaller cam will save you a lot of headaches.
 
i am not ready to swap it yet. Trying to do a little research to see just what the motor is. Just because the papers came with the car.....
 
been wanting another swinger for 20 years, this one was close and well you know how it is.
 
if my timing says it should be 36-38 degrees at 4000rpm
how do i set that?
years ago i set the timing on a 318 with a timing light but i thought that was at idle.
can't remember. what is the procedure for setting the timing on a 1977 360 to be 36-38 degrees at 4000rpm. it also talks about valve lash .022 int. and .026 exhaust.
i thought these engines had hydraulic lifters and the valves didn't need to be "set"
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?? thanks.

Most race motors have solid, or solid roller cams...especially the size you are describing...they require you to lash the valves.

yes, it seems there are many different methods. I don't want to be VERY unhappy.
i am going to find out where it is this weekend with the timing light and go from there.
any tips on adjusting the carb. it looks as though there are two adjustment screws on the front.

There just aren't enough words for this one......

lead boosts octane?

Same as above....

where would i get e85 or fuel above 93 octane rating? And should i have this before fiddling with the timing? Paper work states gas or methanol. But doesn't specify what type of gas. Bottom line the fuel might be the issue.

You can’t just throw e85 in it and expect it to run if the carb isn’t made for it….same with methanol.
No offence, but put the car away, pick up a few books and start reading about what you have before you blow that thing up. Every statement you have made screams "I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT CARS!!!", which with a relatively stock car is fine, but not with a high compression race motor....JMO.
 
Ive got a sweet 318 for ya.
-Seriously tho,I think the very First thing youre going to need to do, is to find a knowledgeable friend in your neighborhood, who works cheap.The second thing I would do if I were you, is go down to the local new-car dealer and purchase some Zinc Additive, and install it per directions.And then, step back and realize that you may have to change your thinking. And there may be a considerable cash outlay involved any way you look at it.
-Do not drive the car. Do not start the car. Maybe you can sit in it for a bit, but no more; until you have a new plan.
-Im not trying to be mean or condescending. A reality-check is in order here. And every time you start it, parts may be damaged.If you were my neighbor Id come over and put my arm around you and ask you " what were you thinking"? Then we could cry in our beers for a bit. And then attack it with a new game-plan.
-Like another poster here said; New pistons and a cam kit are probably in your future.
 
Yeah - you have a good circle track engine in a street car. That's a series of problems right there... I agree with the others - you need to seriously consider de-tuning it or replacing it, because unless you have a supply for 55 gal drums of race fuel and can develop the tuning skills - you're going to break something.
 
Ted, Where on the Eastern Shore are you? I work in Bethany Beach if that is at all close to you. I do think a mild, close to stock 360 would make you much happier. I have a good bit of experience working on cars, and I think if that motor was mine i would be pulling it and making it more street friendly.
 
it sounds like that more all the time. How can i check for sure the áctual compression of this motor? What should it read on individual cylinders? The paper shows 174 hp 362tq at 2500 rpm it climbs from there to 537 hp 462tq at 6100 rpm then 512 hp 413tq at 6550 rpm. It has compression ratio at 13:1
dynamic compression ratio 9.03


Guys, am I the only one seeing that his "dynamic" compression is in the 9's doesn't that say his cam bleeds off enough compression on the low side to survive pump gas? I may be wrong. Thats why I am asking on his behalf.
 
wow. Just to let you all know this idiot managed to somehow get the new water pump on and get it running with no leaks. Thank you to gliderider06 for the offer. I asked questions because I didn't know. I AM doing research so i become more knowledgable about what i have. There are initial settings to start with and tune from there IF you don't know them do not reply with THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WORDS. Everything ive said screams i know nothing DUH that is precisely why i asked. I found this site and thought i had found a great place to get some answers. I was obviously wrong. I will go back to searching the net and archives for my info.
Gliderider06 I am about an hour away from Bethany. There are a few mopar guys who go to the local cruise in i am going to talk to them. Again thank you.
 
i did find a previous owner of this car from when it was in new york for a while. He used it as a sunday cruiser on pump gas.
 
in 2012 mazda released their SKYACTIV engine that runs 13:1 on 87 octane. So i agree with funwithfuel, there are more parameters that have to be considered.
 
in 2012 mazda released their SKYACTIV engine that runs 13:1 on 87 octane. So i agree with funwithfuel, there are more parameters that have to be considered.
Yeah. I'd check to see if the old Dodge has a DIG (direct injection gasoline) engine or not! The SKYACTIV Mazda engine is so far removed from what you've got there that there are no comparisons you can make. None at all.
 
Dynamic compression in the 9s AIN'T pump gas friendly. Also, camshafts do not "bleed off" cylinder pressure. That's not how it works. It all depends on when the intake valve closes. The later the intake valve closes, the later in the compression stroke the cylinder starts to build compression. To say the camshaft "bleeds off" pressure, insinuates that it is done at the end of the compression stroke, which is not true.
 
wow. Just to let you all know this idiot managed to somehow get the new water pump on and get it running with no leaks. Thank you to gliderider06 for the offer. I asked questions because I didn't know. I AM doing research so i become more knowledgable about what i have. There are initial settings to start with and tune from there IF you don't know them do not reply with THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WORDS. Everything ive said screams i know nothing DUH that is precisely why i asked. I found this site and thought i had found a great place to get some answers. I was obviously wrong. I will go back to searching the net and archives for my info.
Gliderider06 I am about an hour away from Bethany. There are a few mopar guys who go to the local cruise in i am going to talk to them. Again thank you.

My apologies if I came across harsh...once in a great while I forget to install my "be nice" filter. What I meant by "there are not enough words" was I was kind of beside myself in disbelief due to your description of your carburetor that you want people to help you with...because you just described almost every type of carb by saying it has 2 adjustment screws. In my mind, this would be like walking into Autozone and asking for an alternator for a "red car".....(again, I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to explain). That was the reason for that quip. And yes, I know carbs...I built the one on my car myself, and it runs really well, especially considering how small it is.

If you can't find any distinguishing markings on the carb, maybe take a picture and post it....but there should be a name and model number on there somewhere.
 
in a previous post i mentioned that it was a carter competition series 4 barrel. I will have to post a model number later.
 
in 2012 mazda released their SKYACTIV engine that runs 13:1 on 87 octane. So i agree with funwithfuel, there are more parameters that have to be considered.

With statements like this, you prove yourself more and more ignorant about automobile engines. Not trying to insult you, we're all ignorant about things. But you refuse to listen to experienced people after you've asked for help and then you try to wrap an old style engine with new computerized engine rules.

So, once more. And I don't give a rat's *** what the previous owner said. There's no way in hell to run 13:1 compression on 87 octane in a carbureted naturally aspirated engine like you have. IF the previous owner really did it, then your engine does not have 13:1 compression. It's really that simple.

People are coming off as harsh because here we are almost 3 pages deep and you're still being bullheaded while people who've been there and done that for thirty and more years are giving you correct answers. You are simply looking for the answer you want to hear, that a 13:1 engine will run on pump gas and it will not.

No one is intentionally trying to be insulting. Everyone in the thread so far is really trying to help. You need to start listening, instead of arguing. Then you might get something accomplished.
 
wow was just looking for some initial settings. This has really taken an odd turn. GOD BLESS AND GOOD LUCK WITH LIFE. I am out.
 
I asked questions because I didn't know. I AM doing research so i become more knowledgable about what i have. There are initial settings to start with and tune from there IF you don't know them do not reply with THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WORDS. Everything ive said screams i know nothing DUH that is precisely why i asked. I found this site and thought i had found a great place to get some answers.

Sorry - I would have normally already torn into the thing to visually verify everything and get some base measurements to work with and develop a plan. Research will all be theoretical until you determine what components reside in that block. I apologize but if you want initial settings you have to provide lots of technical details that thus far have been omitted.

With no other info - set the initial timing around 10°BTDC and set the idle so it runs as steady as you can. If the literature is correct you must run race gasoline with an octane rating of at least 110. It might require higher octane but you really don't know until you take a head off and take some measurements. 110 leaded will let you run without destroying something. As noted - methanol is a different fuel, and requires a completely difference fuel system and calibration. If you want to got ath way then do the research and then buy the parts for it. E85 is a milder form of blend and it's easier although you will still need to revamp the fuel system calibrations, and the Carter will need to go in favor of a more-tunable Holley.
You should also provide cylinder pressure readings. A basic compression test. If it's over 180psi - you definately need race fuel.
Good luck - sounds like a wild engine.
 
Dynamic compression in the 9s AIN'T pump gas friendly. Also, camshafts do not "bleed off" cylinder pressure. That's not how it works. It all depends on when the intake valve closes. The later the intake valve closes, the later in the compression stroke the cylinder starts to build compression. To say the camshaft "bleeds off" pressure, insinuates that it is done at the end of the compression stroke, which is not true.


Perhaps I stated what I was trying to convey incorrectly. Let me explain my statement, and I am by no meens trying to invite an argument on engineering, cam theory and all other things mechanical. I am just explaining what worked for me
I built a lowly H-D sportster engine. Originally an 883cc . I converted it to 1200ish . I replaced the 3" cylinders and pistons for 3.560's . Now I didn't try to cram all that extra volume into the same tiny combustion chamber. I used heads with higher cc combustion chambers. It was still too much compression for the factory cams. I installed a set with greater overlap which "bleed off" some of the static compression
Allowing me to step down from 105 to much more affordable pump premium 92 without retarding timing and without melting plugs and scoring cylinders. Keep in mind this is an air cooled engine that ran mufflers and sat in traffic quite often. I'm not totally "ignorant" to theory and application. And more often than not I do agree with you.
Perhaps 9.08 :1 is a bit extreme. So..... what is factory compression for 5.9 magnum engine out of the box truck engine?.
I await the ridicule and name calling..... Rant off.
 
I'd bet those camshafts in the harley likely had more duration than the ones removed.

I've never seen a dynamic compression calculator ask for overlap. Intake closing event, yes.
 
I'm not totally "ignorant" to theory and application. And more often than not I do agree with you. Perhaps 9.08 :1 is a bit extreme. So..... what is factory compression for 5.9 magnum engine out of the box truck engine?. I await the ridicule and name calling..... Rant off.

No name calling - The Magnums come with a factory static compression ratio of 9.1:1. However, what you are describing is the effect of the intake closing event added to the compression calculation - otherwise known as dynamic compression ratio. I'd have to find the specs and do the math, but I believe the Magnum would have a dynamic ratio in the 7.5:1 range.
So no ridicule - but you're looking at static compression ratio but describing a situation where you adjusted the dynamic compression ratio - it's apples to crab apples comparison.
 
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