Plugging Timed vacuum advance hose

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stumblinhorse

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Appreciate helping me understand or correcting me on what I am doing wrong. I have an edelbrock performer 600 on my la 318. I am using the timed vacuum port on the carb to connect to my distributor. Doing the timing says to pull the hose from the distributor and plug it. There is no vacuum in that line at idle. I don't think there is supposed to be vacuum in that line at idle? Why should I plug that line? I am sure I am missing something or doing something wrong.

Please educate me. I don't have a PCV hooked up yet, waiting on the grommet. If that matters.
 
You are correct, there is no vacuum at idle, but you plug it in case the idle is too high and it opens.
 
That's because that hose should be hooked to manifold vacuum ....
There has been many discussions about this. For a stock or low performance engine on the street, ported distributor vacuum is recommended.
 
There has been many discussions about this. For a stock or low performance engine on the street, ported distributor vacuum is recommended.

We know it's going to the distributor. The question is, manifold port or carburetor port?
 
As far as I understand, using ported vacuum only can into play when emissions became a priority. Using manifold vacuum increases timing at idle speed which helps burn the fuel more efficiently. When these cars were new weren't they all using manifold vacuum ? ... I'll try and find the article written by a GM engineer ...
 
My original 66 carb doesn't have ported vacuum but that was pre emission for sure.
 
I hope this will enlighten those that disagree ! some folks are just afraid to learn .. I run full manifold on both my cars, no problems ... I adjust my cans to full open just a bit under idle vacuum. Now you know why you disconnect the advance hose and plug it before any timing adjustments !
 
Interesting and thanks for the link. I will have to try manifold vacuum to see if it makes any difference. As long as the lope of the cam doesn't cause the advance to surge like the writer mentioned toward the end of his post.
Should be no surging as long as you're using an adjustable can and dial it back a bit to open a little below your idle vacuum reading ..
 
Should be no surging as long as you're using an adjustable can and dial it back a bit to open a little below your idle vacuum reading ..
I wonder if most replacement advance diaphragm's are adjustable.
 
I think they are. They one i bought from napa for my 340 dart is adjustable, the one that came on my replacement distributor for my 383 is also adjustable... I think the adjustable ones are hex shaped instead of round ? I may be wrong on that though
 
Getting over my head here, but I assume you are talking about the diaphragm on the distributor. How do you adjust them? I just replaced my distributor since it was 50 years old and don't see how to adjust the new one.
 
Getting over my head here, but I assume you are talking about the diaphragm on the distributor. How do you adjust them? I just replaced my distributor since it was 50 years old and don't see how to adjust the new one.
Yes you adjust it with a small allen wrench through the vacuum port. 3/32" or possibly 1/8" if I remember correctly.
 
I wonder if most replacement advance diaphragm's are adjustable.

Yes they are.

I think they are. They one i bought from napa for my 340 dart is adjustable, the one that came on my replacement distributor for my 383 is also adjustable... I think the adjustable ones are hex shaped instead of round ? I may be wrong on that though

This is correct.

Getting over my head here, but I assume you are talking about the diaphragm on the distributor. How do you adjust them? I just replaced my distributor since it was 50 years old and don't see how to adjust the new one.

A 3/32 allen wrench inside the where the vac line goes on.
 
...

vac advance.jpg
 
Scenario 1;
With the D hooked to manifold vacuum,with stock to small cam,
When you plug the D in, the idle speed will jump up, Right? And so what do you do? You crank the idle speed down. And then what happens? That's right the T-port sync takes a dump......and most of the time you get in incurable off-idle stumble.
Scenario 2;
with the D hooked to manifold vacuum and a typical street cam.
As you come to a low speed and you just want to idle around the parking lot, the car starts to do the rocking horse buck..........curable with a lot less advance. This is especially annoying with a stick car
Scenario 3;
With the D hooked to the manifold, and a stock or small cam,
And you have a low stall TC
You are coming to a stop and the Rs are slow to return to curb. So you have to put a little more boot on the brake pedal. This is very annoying on a stick car.
Scenario 4;
Again with manifold vacuum to the D
You have a hi-compression engine with a bit of a cam and a low-stall.And you're in traffic. Every time you touch the gas pedal, POW! the car jumps ahead as the torque hits the TC, man that's annoying. Easily cureable with less timing.
You say there is no vacuum at the sparkport. That tells me you have no cam to perhaps a small cam, so I suppose the factory TC is still in there, which could be a stall as low as 1750. IMO, I would hook to the spark-port, and speed up the rate of advance some. Problem solved.

I have a stick car with a 360, a 230FTH, and a 10.97 starter gear (this is a 3.09low x 3.55 which would be the same as a 2.66lowx4.12). There are many times, I need the car to run smooth and slow.But at 750idle this is 5.5MPH. If I crank the idle timing back to 5 to 7 degreesBTDC, it will idle down to 4mph @550 rpm, before I have to put a little slip in the clutch, to soften the beginning of the lurching.
I run aluminum heads and up to about an 8.9Dcr with over 170 to 190 psi cylinder pressure (depends on which cam I was running). So the engine is making plenty of low speed torque. I have, that's HAVE, to run waaay less idle and low speed timing, to soften the hit. If I ran 35* @2500 like some do, My gas-pedal would be an off/on switch. If I added another 22* in the Vcan, the Part throttle response would be undriveable. For me, idle timing of 14/16 is the max, and I prefer 12/14.
So I don't care what anybody says, If you have a stick with a cam such as a223,a230 or a249 ( all the ones I have run), you will be a much happier camper with the D hooked to the spark-port and a faster mechanical curve, that hinges around 2800, and then slows, to be all in after 3200.Yeah it will take a 2 stage curve, but just about every 318 out there has one.Yeah it will take a bit of work on your part,to get right. But it's easily doable. And you will never notice a couple of footpounds loss here or there, and your engine will be waaay more flexible.
I can't speak to autos.
but I ran the same D in a 1973 318, and it liked it, with a starter gear of 7.56 or higher, and a 2800TC, imagine that,lol..

Point of story; every engine, and every application is different, let the engine tell you what it wants. Get it bugged out on the sparkport first. In fact, disconnect the can completely until the tune is in. And yes plug the port so no dirt gets sucked in there,lol. That's my opinion.
 
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I
Scenario 1;
With the D hooked to manifold vacuum,with stock to small cam,
When you plug the D in, the idle speed will jump up, Right? And so what do you do? You crank the idle speed down. And then what happens? That's right the T-port sync takes a dump......and most of the time you get in incurable off-idle stumble.
Scenario 2;
with the D hooked to manifold vacuum and a typical street cam.
As you come to a low speed and you just want to idle around the parking lot, the car starts to do the rocking horse buck..........curable with a lot less advance. This is especially annoying with a stick car
Scenario 3;
With the D hooked to the manifold, and a stock or small cam,
And you have a low stall TC
You are coming to a stop and the Rs are slow to return to curb. So you have to put a little more boot on the brake pedal. This is very annoying on a stick car.
Scenario 4;
Again with manifold vacuum to the D
You have a hi-compression engine with a bit of a cam and a low-stall.And you're in traffic. Every time you touch the gas pedal, POW! the car jumps ahead as the torque hits the TC, man that's annoying. Easily cureable with less timing.
You say there is no vacuum at the sparkport. That tells me you have no cam to perhaps a small cam, so I suppose the factory TC is still in there, which could be a stall as low as 1750. IMO, I would hook to the spark-port, and speed up the rate of advance some. Problem solved.

I have a stick car with a 360, a 230FTH, and a 10.97 starter gear (this is a 3.09low x 3.55 which would be the same as a 2.66lowx4.12). There are many times, I need the car to run smooth and slow.But at 750idle this is 5.5MPH. If I crank the idle timing back to 5 to 7 degreesBTDC, it will idle down to 4mph @550 rpm, before I have to put a little slip in the clutch, to soften the beginning of the lurching.
I run aluminum heads and up to about an 8.9Dcr with over 170 to 190 psi cylinder pressure (depends on which cam I was running). So the engine is making plenty of low speed torque. I have, that's HAVE, to run waaay less idle and low speed timing, to soften the hit. If I ran 35* @2500 like some do, My gas-pedal would be an off/on switch. If I added another 22* in the Vcan, the Part throttle response would be undriveable. For me, idle timing of 14/16 is the max, and I prefer 12/14.
So I don't care what anybody says, If you have a stick with a cam such as a223,a230 or a249 ( all the ones I have run), you will be a much happier camper with the D hooked to the spark-port and a faster mechanical curve, that hinges around 2800, and then slows, to be all in after 3200.Yeah it will take a 2 stage curve, but just about every 318 out there has one.Yeah it will take a bit of work on your part,to get right. But it's easily doable. And you will never notice a couple of footpounds loss here or there, and your engine will be waaay more flexible.
I can't speak to autos.
but I ran the same D in a 1973 318, and it liked it, with a starter gear of 7.56 or higher, and a 2800TC, imagine that,lol..

Point of story; every engine, and every application is different, let the engine tell you what it wants. Get it bugged out on the sparkport first. In fact, disconnect the can completely until the tune is in. And yes plug the port so no dirt gets sucked in there,lol. That's my opinion.
I completely respect your experience, here's where I'm at with my cars ...
383, xe268h (477/470), source heads, 9.44:1 comp, 727, 323 gear ... vacuum advance to full manifold, points distributor with pertronix ignitor2 : zero slow speed bucking, very smooth off idle throttle response, very smooth Hwy cruising, etc, etc ...
340, xe274h (488/491) eddy rpm heads, 10.5:1 comp, 4 spd, 3.55 gear ... vacuum advance to full manifold, mopar electronic distributor with jegs hi-rev 7200 ecu : smooth start into 1st gear, no bucking during parking lot driving, smooth hwy cruise, zero of your scenarios happening ....
Please explain why my cars drive so well .....
 
I

I completely respect your experience, here's where I'm at with my cars ...
383, xe268h (477/470), source heads, 9.44:1 comp, 727, 323 gear ... vacuum advance to full manifold, points distributor with pertronix ignitor2 : zero slow speed bucking, very smooth off idle throttle response, very smooth Hwy cruising, etc, etc ...
340, xe274h (488/491) eddy rpm heads, 10.5:1 comp, 4 spd, 3.55 gear ... vacuum advance to full manifold, mopar electronic distributor with jegs hi-rev 7200 ecu : smooth start into 1st gear, no bucking during parking lot driving, smooth hwy cruise, zero of your scenarios happening ....
Please explain why my cars drive so well .....
OK, well
1) they don't fit into any of the scenarios I offered
2) I already said I can't speak to autos
3) you may be a better tuner than me.
4) My scenarios are all at closed throttle.
Obviously, as soon as the throttle is opened, the vacuum falls and, with it, the low-speed vacuum-assisted timing.

How did you deal with the T-port sync?

But since you're here, can we talk about your stick car?
With those aluminum heads, and with that cam, your VP is down in the mid 130s, with cylinder pressure around 170, which;the 170 is pretty good,but IMO, 130s are a kindof soft bottom end and there is no way I would enjoy that with a 2.66x3.55=9.44 starter gear.What I mean is, a stock low compression 318 comes in at about 124, so your 340 is 136/124= just about 9.7% stronger, so it's no wonder she doesn't buck. And what I also mean is, I'm used to having mega-torque.
With the soft bottom, you can run almost any timing you can get out of the D, except of course the power-timing has to be limited.
Your combo wants at least 11.3 compression ratio, and so,with the cam in at 104;
Static compression ratio of 11.3:1.
Effective stroke is 2.59 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 9.05:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 187.48 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 152...............................................................152
Your cam could even retarded , cuz 152 VP is a lot.
You could think of that 152VP as; 152/134=plus 13.4% more performance from idle to about 3600. Or 152/124=plus 22.6% over that low-C teener.
You could think of that as a higher stall converter, where the engine spools up to an rpm where there is 13.4% more torque.
Or you could sorta compare it to having 13.4% more low gear,or a 3.02, instead of the 2.66.
Or you could sorta-sorta compare it to having an engine 13.4% bigger in that low-rpm range,or 385 cubes.
Or you could think of it as the engine having a cam one size smaller,or so.
Read about VP here; V/P Index Calculation

I ran this 11.3Scr, with a tight-Q, in my 367 on 87E10gas, for many years, at 32/34 power-timing.With a 367 my VP was over 160. This is a good bit more than and old 440Magnum (148VP), so you can imagine how that burns up the tires, er launches. But,this is where I spent many hours in the tune,getting the low-rpm timings,and the low-speed circuit,bugged out. In the end it was all worth it.
I run a 3.09 low in my box, also with 3.55s. But I run a GVOD, splitting gears when the occasion calls for it. With the VP over 160, I could easily run 3.23s. But with the 3.55s, I can use up all of first-over to hit 60@6380rpm, and 3.55s hit more other targets, so they're gonna stay........Jus saying.

What I mean by mega-torque, is; say you rev your engine out to whatever rpm gets you 170ftlbs, and then slip it out. Your low gear and rear-end will multiply that by 2.66 and 3.55 to get 1605 into the axles.That's a nice brisk take-off. In your current combo,this might be, I'm guessing, 2600rpm.
Now if you bumped the compression to where it makes the bigger VP, this rpm might drop to 2000rpm.
Now if you had a 3.09 low gear, this might drop to 1700.
Now if you had a 360, this might drop to 1600.Not to rag on the 340, just saying.
I had a similar cam (270/280/110) in my 367, and all I did was blip the throttle, to get some energy into the flywheel, and almost just dump the clutch,and power away. That's what I'm used to; dump it and go.
Please, I'm not ragging on your 340. I'm just showing what can be achieved with aluminum heads, and lotsa compression.
I guess I should also mention that IMO there is something going on in aluminum heads that I never expected. It seems to me that at low rpms and typical driving speeds, the aluminum must be sucking a ton of heat out of the chambers. This means total freedom from detonation in those usually problematic low rpms, under 3600, or so. But, as the rpm goes up, there doesn't seem to be enough time for the heads to get rid of the heat, and so the power rises faster than I would expect. At some point, the chamber temp stabilizes, and then the high compression turns her into an animal. That's my opinion. If there's a next time, I'm gonna juice it up with even more pressure, remember I'm still running 87E10, at 185 or better psi.
That's the best I can do.
 
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