timing problem

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Ozzy

Ozzy

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Hey guys! I'm looking for some answers, and hoping you all can help me out. I recently switched to electronic ignition on my 67 Barracuda, and I'm having troubles tuning her 318 back in. I did some research on the engine numbers, and the 318 is a 1975ish with 360 heads on it. It has a Holley high rise and 4 barrel, 4 speed trans.
Now that the new distributor is in, it doesn't want to time up. I put the light on it, and it wants to run way off time. Like, way off. I set the idle for 2000rpm, and look for my line. But when I turn the dist. to line up with the scale on the pan, it goes way advanced and fires out the carb. If I dial it down to where she'll run, the line is nowhere in sight. There are three lines on the balancer, but 2 only go half way across. I'm assuming the full line is the timing marker.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
I would think at 200 RPM your mechanical advance is working advancing your timing,why not set it at idle 10 BTDC and go from there.

here is a thread :

Set "total" timing on a stock 318 two-barrel where? Short version you want to set initial timing approximately at 10 BTDC (not at 2000 RPM) then check total timing at 2-3000 RPM, make sure its at 32-36 BTDC with the mechanical advance all out.

intial (10BTDC) + flull out mechanical advance ( 22 BTDC approximate) = 32-36 Total Timing
 
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You bring #1 cylinder up on compression stroke to Top Dead Center on the harmonic balancer. Then you drop in your distributor there so that the rotor in the distributor is lined up with #1 spark plug wire on the distributor cap when the distributor is fully seated in the block.

Pull the vacuum advance hose at the carb and plug that carb port.

Now idling at 700 rpm set your advance to 12° before TDC using the timing light and turning the distributor. Lock down the distributor there and recheck to see that it did not move. Then reattach the vacuum advance hose. Done . . .
 
Dartswinger70 said:
I would think at 200 RPM your mechanical advance is working advancing your timing,why not set it at idle 10 BTDC and go from there.

here is a thread :

Set "total" timing on a stock 318 two-barrel where? Short version you want to set initial timing approximately at 10 BTDC (not at 2000 RPM) then check total timing at 2-3000 RPM, make sure its at 32-36 BTDC with the mechanical advance all out.

intial (10BTDC) + flull out mechanical advance ( 22 BTDC approximate) = 32-36 Total Timing
Click to expand...
Okay, it looks like I need to pull the RPMs down in order to dial in. Is vacuum advance different from mechanical? Mine is vacuum, but I'm not sure how the mechanical works.
 
George Jets said:
You bring #1 cylinder up on compression stroke to Top Dead Center on the harmonic balancer. Then you drop in your distributor there so that the rotor in the distributor is lined up with #1 spark plug wire on the distributor cap when the distributor is fully seated in the block.

Pull the vacuum advance hose at the carb and plug that carb port.

Now idling at 700 rpm set your advance to 12° before TDC using the timing light and turning the distributor. Lock down the distributor there and recheck to see that it did not move. Then reattach the vacuum advance hose. Done . . .
Click to expand...
I've done 1 and 2, 3 is where I'm at. A friend told me to check the timing at 2000 RPMs, so I'll dial the throttle down and see what happens. Thanks.
 
Sounds like you have a bit of a FrankenCuda. Was the electronic changeover the only thing you did, and now having trouble with the ignition timing? The old points system worked fine before the swap? What balancer and timing cover/pointer combo are you using? I think I'd start by making sure the timing mark on the balancer lines up with the pointer/gauge on the timing cover. Use a piston stop to verify the outer ring on the balancer hasn't slipped or is mismatched. The procedure for doing that is posted here somewhere I'm sure.
 
cudamark said:
Sounds like you have a bit of a FrankenCuda. Was the electronic changeover the only thing you did, and now having trouble with the ignition timing? The old points system worked fine before the swap? What balancer and timing cover/pointer combo are you using? I think I'd start by making sure the timing mark on the balancer lines up with the pointer/gauge on the timing cover. Use a piston stop to verify the outer ring on the balancer hasn't slipped or is mismatched. The procedure for doing that is posted here somewhere I'm sure.
Click to expand...
It's been a long story, and yes, she's a FrankenCuda. Before I put her away for the season (live in PA by Lake Erie), I was having ignition problems and had the old points system. I thought I'd change to the pertronix distributor, and had a problem with that trying to wire it. When I tried timing it with the new dist, the line was jumping all over the place. Since I had never checked the timing before, I thought it might be the timing chain. So I changed it. The old one didn't seem stretched, but I changed it anyway. Timing was still jumping. After some frustration, I ran into an article posted by SlantSixDan that explained how to put a Chevy HEI ignition in a Mopar. So, over the winter months I tried it. In the process, I found out my 67 has a 68 wire harness, which may be why I was having problems earlier. I also did some diagnostics like compression testing and put a new Holley on it.
Since putting in the HEI, the balancer line isn't jumping anymore, but it doesn't come close to TDC. That's where I'm at right now...wondering why I can't put the line where it belongs. Could I have put the chain in a tooth off? I don't think so, but it might make sense..
 
Have you tried flipping the two wires going to the distributor around?
 
Even try flipping your lead on your timing light 180°, and clip it over the #1 spark plug wire again. Sometimes they don't read very well upside down.

Also if you have a Dial-Advance timing light, make sure you have the dial set on 0° to start with so you can find TDC on the vibration damper.
 
Ozzy said:
Okay, it looks like I need to pull the RPMs down in order to dial in. Is vacuum advance different from mechanical? Mine is vacuum, but I'm not sure how the mechanical works.
Click to expand...
Mechanical is a set of centrifugal weights the open at higher RPM (2-3000) and advance the timing mechanically. So yes you set initial at idle first with vacuum advance disconnected, then check "total" timing at 2500-3000 RPM. You use a dial back timing light and at 2500 RPm your total timing should be 32-36 BTDC. I am no expert but thats the way i set mine up ,and it is running good at idlle,good throttle response etc. I will make other adjustment as i take it down the road and assess how it runs in gear under load. Sometimes they run good in the garage and then run like crap going down the road, so yeah its a step by step process,or thats how I approach it.
 
George Jets said:
Even try flipping your lead on your timing light 180°, and clip it over the #1 spark plug wire again. Sometimes they don't read very well upside down.

Also if you have a Dial-Advance timing light, make sure you have the dial set on 0° to start with so you can find TDC on the vibration damper.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll try that. It is a dial- advance, but I taped it down to stay at zero.
 
Yeah it's not 180 out. They flat out won't run like that.
 
Let me find a pic, could possibly be that.
images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRF0ctmdMGVlsFEJfs6h_RES0NqA5qsTZ4oBA&usqp=CAU.jpg
Z2VzLzExNTY4NzIvcHJvZHVjdC9jM2I3MTcwZjY4MjM5OGZkZjY2ZGI1ODFiMTExODlkZC5qcGciLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjoyfQ==.jpg
The arrows are for rotation direction. The one within the lines is CW for SB and the other is CCW for B/RB engines. Easy to do if your not aware of it.
 
As Rusty Said.

And going back to the pertronix, If the line is jumping around at a steady rpm, then obviously, the timing light is having difficulty reading the signal. This happens when the polarity of the magnetic pick-up is backwards. Rusty mentioned this in post #8.
The same thing will happen with the Mopar system.
BTW, in both instances, you can set the idle-timing just fine. The line is right where you set it, and rock-steady. But as soon as you begin to rev it up, the light starts flashing erroneously and the car begins to run like crap.
That is the reversed-polarity tell-tale.
Fix it, and then you will have to retime the idle-timing to find the mark; this is normal.
Now rev it up to 3600 and set the max advance to 34*, then let her idle and see where she's at.
This has happened to me several times.
I once made my boss $1500C by knowing that trick.
 
halifaxhops said:
Let me find a pic, could possibly be that.
View attachment 1715583783View attachment 1715583784The arrows are for rotation direction. The one within the lines is CW for SB and the other is CCW for B/RB engines. Easy to do if your not aware of it.
Click to expand...
Well that would explain a lot, but I just dropped the new dist in. Could it have come from the factory that way?
If so, it would explain why things went bad when I dropped it in. The motor won't go below 1200 RPM without shutting down. Then I have to feather the gas again to keep it running. So I set the idle at 1200 'cause I'm by myself.
 
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Easy to check, pull the cap and rotor and see which slot the roll pin is in. Define 'New Distributor" NOS should be perfect, rebuilds I have seen some funky stuff with them.
 
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