Rocker Geometry!

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B3RE

B³ Racing Engines
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
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Hey guys,
I have a 500 ci bracket motor in the shop for some work. It had 20-25 passes on the motor, was breaking pushrods and beating up the Indy rockers @ 7800 rpm. This was a perfect candidate for some of our custom T&D rockers, using a single shaft and shaft oiling.

Here are some pics of the rockers mocked up on the 440-1 heads with our geometry kit to get the shafts at the right place.

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On the seat.

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Half Lift.

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Full lift.

Wait, there's more.
 
We had these rockers made to our spec with proper shaft placement in mind. It cleaned up the geometry all around.

More pics.
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Top shot. Don't worry, T&D didn't have the right length center studs for our needs, so bolts were used for mock up. Studs are ordered.

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Here is the sweep pattern. With .708" net lift, the sweep is a paltry .044" wide. That's some excellent valvetrain efficiency right there.

I don't foresee any more broken pushrods, especially since we stepped up to a 7/16"×.120" wall for the 800# open spring pressures.

Btw, we have a 505 with Trick Flows in the shop as well. These rockers have excellent geometry on them also.
 
Very VERY cool.

Why doesn't T&D just sell your rocker design? And give you a cut of the profit!
Thanks! We'll see what I can work out with T&D. May do something similar to what Barton does with the Hemi rockers. After all, the buyer would still have to relocate the shafts. Might as well do a B3RE combo deal.
 
Sure looks like the push rod is hitting the rocker in that full lift picture..
I think it's just the angle of the shot, but there will be adequate clearance when assembled if there isn't right now. I promised someone I would post the pics last week, and was in a hurry to fulfill that promise before weeks end. I'll be checking rocker clearances more closely once I get the heads assembled and on the short block. I had to do minor clearancing for the intake pushrods on the -1s, which I suspected after mock up to check pushrod length with a 5/16" checker and it was really close.

Right now the heads are ready for final cleaning and assembly, so I'll keep you posted once I can get the rockers back on the heads.
 
Sure looks like the push rod is hitting the rocker in that full lift picture..
Well, 383Duster has good eyes! There was a small amount of interference between the pushrod and rocker body at full lift. T&D says that is common with the larger pushrods and relatively short rockers. After getting their blessing, I relieved them enough so future modest lift increases are possible.
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Next time I'll save myself some grief, and order single taper pushrods if I need to go larger than 3/8" diameter.
 
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Pushrods are different lengths between intake and exhaust, by a small amount, so I marked the exhausts with dye to keep them identifiable.
 
I thought I got a pic of the rocker to pushrod clearance, but if I did, it was deleted because I can't find it. Here is a shot of the assembly.
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Ran it on the test stand, and other than needing the top end oiling restricted a bit, everything looked, and sounded great.
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I wanted to dyno this one, but the customer insisted "that's what the track is for". Should be going out the door today.
 
I always prefer double tapered pushrods when the spring loads get that high. Can't you have T&D just relieve a small amount from the PR area when they machine the rockers.

As usual, excellent work. I'm sure the customer will be impressed. As he should be.
 
I always prefer double tapered pushrods when the spring loads get that high. Can't you have T&D just relieve a small amount from the PR area when they machine the rockers.

As usual, excellent work. I'm sure the customer will be impressed. As he should be.
Yeah, I could probably ask them to do that, but I think I am probably a thorn in their side. Idk, we'll see what happens when I talk to Sheldon tomorrow. Could be communication issues to resolve. The work is top notch though.

The customer had sticker shock at first, mainly because he didn't see everything wrong with the motor that needed fixed. Once he saw the breakdown, he was fine with the bill.

Thanks for the compliment! I'll be posting some more rocker related pics here soon, and one of my West coast customers is planning on posting as well.
 
Yeah, I could probably ask them to do that, but I think I am probably a thorn in their side. Idk, we'll see what happens when I talk to Sheldon tomorrow. Could be communication issues to resolve. The work is top notch though.

The customer had sticker shock at first, mainly because he didn't see everything wrong with the motor that needed fixed. Once he saw the breakdown, he was fine with the bill.

Thanks for the compliment! I'll be posting some more rocker related pics here soon, and one of my West coast customers is planning on posting as well.

It's ALWAYS more expensive to fix something than to do it twice. It's a tough lesson for some to learn.

More pictures please.
 
It's ALWAYS more expensive to fix something than to do it twice. It's a tough lesson for some to learn.

More pictures please.
Well, I might have a couple more T&D rocker pics tomorrow, but for now, here is a set of Hughes rockers converted to a cup adjuster, and set up on a set of Trick Flow 270s for a FABO member.
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what your thoughts on t&d rockers on chapman stage 6 max wedge port heads ?
I think any Mopar head/engine is worth having a properly designed rocker arm. It just happens that T&D will make them that way for me. Not every engine needs the level of valvetrain that T&D provides, but until I can mass produce a more economical alternative, I make do with what's available.

If the Chapman's are for a race, mostly race, or wild street application, then I would say the investment in our custom T&D rockers is well worth it. Anything less can usually be made to work well without the added expense of a custom rocker.
 
Ok, back to the T&Ds! Here is something that might be of interest to anyone who just received an inheritance from a rich uncle. Actually, they weren't that bad, but still pricey by most standards.

We had two sets of these made for a customer in Canada, with the steel option. He puts a lot of street miles on his vehicles, i.e. Power Tour, and wanted something reliable for the long haul. They are our B3RE profile in a 1.7 ratio for a set of Victors, and a set of ProComps.
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Sorry about the shading and glare on the photos. The poor fluorescent lighting and the galvanized table top are problematic. Maybe, when I get my rich uncle inheritance, I'll build a studio to take my photos. :rolleyes:
 
Well, I might have a couple more T&D rocker pics tomorrow, but for now, here is a set of Hughes rockers converted to a cup adjuster, and set up on a set of Trick Flow 270s for a FABO member.View attachment 1715054654 View attachment 1715054655 View attachment 1715054656 View attachment 1715054657
I have to say these look as good in pictures as they do in person! They came out awesome and can't wait to finally get things running. I'll provide an update once I do. I'm with Mike and YellowRose, always better to do whatever you can to make it right the first time. A few hundred saved somewhere almost always equals a few thousand spent fixing things.
 
Ok, back to the T&Ds! Here is something that might be of interest to anyone who just received an inheritance from a rich uncle. Actually, they weren't that bad, but still pricey by most standards.

We had two sets of these made for a customer in Canada, with the steel option. He puts a lot of street miles on his vehicles, i.e. Power Tour, and wanted something reliable for the long haul. They are our B3RE profile in a 1.7 ratio for a set of Victors, and a set of ProComps.
View attachment 1715054804 View attachment 1715054806 View attachment 1715054807 View attachment 1715054808
Sorry about the shading and glare on the photos. The poor fluorescent lighting and the galvanized table top are problematic. Maybe, when I get my rich uncle inheritance, I'll build a studio to take my photos. :rolleyes:

That wouldn't be for a gentleman in my area (southern alberta) now would it?

I like these posts. Always nice to see good work. And really nice clean patterning that your kits give. When I go to solid roller setup, you're one of the first on my list to call for rockers/geometry kit.
 
That wouldn't be for a gentleman in my area (southern alberta) now would it?

I like these posts. Always nice to see good work. And really nice clean patterning that your kits give. When I go to solid roller setup, you're one of the first on my list to call for rockers/geometry kit.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy them, and hope they are informative.

This customer is in SK.
 
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy them, and hope they are informative.
This customer is in SK.
But hey, if you know someone in AB that wants some, tell them to give me a call.
 
So if you can convert the Hughes rockers to cup adjusters, can you do the same to the MP rockers? What about the Norris SS rockers? I'm partial to the Norris rockers but I'd rather have cup adjusters.
 
I have to say these look as good in pictures as they do in person! They came out awesome and can't wait to finally get things running. I'll provide an update once I do. I'm with Mike and YellowRose, always better to do whatever you can to make it right the first time. A few hundred saved somewhere almost always equals a few thousand spent fixing things.
I'm anxious for you, Bob! Let me know how well it tears up tires.
:steering:
 
So if you can convert the Hughes rockers to cup adjusters, can you do the same to the MP rockers? What about the Norris SS rockers? I'm partial to the Norris rockers but I'd rather have cup adjusters.
Yep, but depending on the rocker, it could need pushrod oiling, or modification to the rocker body to oil internally.
 
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