Anybody running the RMS AlterKation? Was it really worth the cost?
Post up the test! I have been waiting for years for someone to take a couple of cars with similar power, tires and have the same driver always wondered what the outcome would be.
Yup, no such test exists yet. And really, it would have to be the
same car. Too many variables otherwise, chassis stiffening, ride height, 40+ years of wear and tear on the chassis (rust, damage, etc). Even with different cars that were the same make and model you could still have more than enough differences beyond the suspension to make an across the board comparison problematic.
There is this article though, for the muscle car of the year shootout hot rod did in 2013. Wracks71's fully RMS equipped Duster and the Hotchkis Taxi both took part, and you can see who had the fastest time. Hint, it was the 1970 4 door Satellite with torsion bars and leaf springs. Now, it's not a true comparison. Different drivers, different cars, different tires, just too many variables for it to be a valid comparison of suspensions. The only thing you can take out of it is that going fully coilover may not make you faster than a torsion bar/leaf spring car. Really though, you can't get past that. Even if you showed that one suspension system was better in certain performance situations it would be no guarantee that any one person/car would be faster with the "better" suspension.
2013 Muscle Car of the Year - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
I also wouldn't take the "3-series" as meaning anything. What 3-series? What options? My 330 is basically an engine shy of an M-3 (as I understand it), same suspension, same tires, same brakes. A 325, on the other hand is much less car, all the way around.
And, as for hate. I don't see anybody who prefers to stay with torsion bars spewing anything. If anything, it is the other way around. People who have spent large sums of money seem upset that others don't share their enthusiasm for the aftermarket suspensions. The OP was asking for opinions, we all gave them.
If you are talking about the "3-series" in the 2012 Tire Racks testing they used BMW 328i sedan that year , they are up to 300hp and run 245 tires. Nice car with similar track performance to a V6 Mustang...just way more expensive to fix.
Yeah the 328's aren't a slouch. And a second per lap with the same driver and same tires is significant. Not the end-all-be-all though of course. Especially with autoX and road race cars it really depends on the track. You can set up an autoX course where miata's will kill corvette's all day long and not have it even be close, and then turn around and put them on a different course and have the 'vette's make the miata's look silly. Which comes right back to all suspension design and set up is a
compromise.
Although I really do appreciate the input, that doesn't jive with my car. A few years ago I rebuilt the front end with all new pieces, and the steering was still sloppy. I replaced the PS steering box with a rebuilt unit; steering still sloppy. I am ready for better steering.
Converting to the RMS just for the steering rack is a pretty big expense. You don't have to buy rebuilt boxes anymore. You can go Borgeson and ditch the original design power box all together. Heck I run a brand new Flaming River manual box, and that was a big improvement.
I hear lots of opinions here but none based on facts. If a suspension manufacturer wants to prove superiority over stock style or vice versa lets talk about important specs, roll center, camber curves, rill axis, center of gravity, etc. Not one manufacturer has done this ever even when I was with XV.
My Borgeson steering kits cure the sloppy steering present in stock style boxes. While i agree Mopars in stock form have the worst steering feel of any muscle era car, the correct choice of parts creates an impressive package that us also durable. I do a couple track events per year for yrs. There are only a small handful of people with mopars venturing onto tracks. I have never seen on with RMS. We run a second XV equipped car I built with some mods that is a solid performer. Guys like Hotchkiss are trying to take the guesswork out of purchasing parts. The aftermarket systems get sales based on the one stop shop approach. Bottom line is to read a book about understanding how suspension works before choosing parts.
Also true. Of course, the problem with comparing roll centers, camber curves, roll axis, CG etc on a torsion bar car is that you can change most of those just by lowering the car an inch with the torsion bar adjusters. Or by running FMJ instead of A-body spindles, although Mopar Muscle did that comparison for roll center, bump steer and camber curves.
Swapping Disc-Brake Spindles - Mopar Muscle Magazine. But yeah, at that level of analysis you'd find differences even from one torsion bar suspended car to another, especially if you start throwing adjustable UCA's and strut rods around.
