my lil 6.1 died at the 1000ft mark at the track

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Buschi340

Buschi340

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at 6000 rpm. destroyed two Pistons with rods. one in pieces inside, one diesappeared completely. rod caps did escape through the block walls on both sides. one half of a cap i found in the Brakes...
my lil Buddy worked now 5 years under the Hood and decided to go this saturday.

RIP my friend...

Will load more Pictures later if interested

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Wow, that's really unfortunate. Do you have any idea why it might have let go? Parts just not up to the power level you were pushing or some other failure?
 
Buschi340 said:
at 6000 rpm. destroyed two Pistons with rods. one in pieces inside, one diesappeared completely. rod caps did escape through the block walls on both sides. one half of a cap i found in the Brakes...
my lil Buddy worked now 5 years under the Hood and decided to go this saturday.

RIP my friend...

Will load Pictures later if interested
Click to expand...
ouch - condolences
 
stock engine. just a mild, slightly better cam. Behive springs. Everything else is stock.
I have no clue what this caused. In the Facebook Group Gen3 Hemi swaps i posted a few Pictures. It Looks like a granade exploded in the block...

I am still collecting ideas what did cause this...

No power adder. In case of asking. I run 102 octane fuel. Ignition set to 26 degrees
 
Let me know if you want to sell the Cam and springs from the engine. I have been looking.
 
Ouch, hate to see that.

I'm not forensic expert, but based on the fact that one cylinder has piston rings still hanging in it, wouldn't it be a good guess that it exploded and the opposite piston and both rods were collateral damage?

Just an idea.
 
Buschi340 said:
View attachment 1715071447 at 6000 rpm. destroyed two Pistons with rods. one in pieces inside, one diesappeared completely. rod caps did escape through the block walls on both sides. one half of a cap i found in the Brakes...
my lil Buddy worked now 5 years under the Hood and decided to go this saturday.

RIP my friend...

Will load more Pictures later if interested

View attachment 1715071449

View attachment 1715071450

View attachment 1715071451
Click to expand...
ouch - yep, that 'sploded
 
To help with your forensics... probably an oiling failure. All G3 hemis have cross drilled cranks as far as I know. They starve the rod bearings. Every aftermarket crank that I know of uses Chevy style "high speed oiling" to correct the problem.

Also the piston/ring package can't hold up to the inherent detonation of the combustion chamber design. This is why timing numbers are so far off on these engines.

These design issues are why even mild G3 engines require an all out build. Every G3 I've opened up had scored bearings, cylinders, and damaged pistons. The G3 has good heads and a strong block, but has some issues that require a full effort build to sustain modest performance levels.
 
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The pressed powder rods have a "reputation" and it ain't good.
 
The PM rods are better starting in '09... not sure how good. The GM PM rods are strong enough to last in a full season or more in 550 HP endurance applications. My son has them in his dirt car and they are a favorite in his neck of the woods.

Again the early oil pumps can't keep up to performance applications...

The cross drilled debate has been debated for 40 years with no clear winner at least in my mind. I never had a problem with one...that used to be the hot set-up in the 60's when all we had to run were stock cranks or outrageously expensive billet stuff.

I'd like to hear more aboutt the 'bad' combustion chamber design...

I'm not sure when this whole Gen 3 design was started but it seems to me that after Daimler got involved the whole line-up of Chrysler vehicles suffered from the poor design and/or materials in their engine line-up. Personally I've owned a 4.0 with piston issues and a 2.7 with water pump design flaws. Seems the bean counters had a lot of sway... and the German 'engineers' should have stayed working for the railroads.
 
Buschi340 said:
View attachment 1715071447 at 6000 rpm. destroyed two Pistons with rods. one in pieces inside, one diesappeared completely. rod caps did escape through the block walls on both sides. one half of a cap i found in the Brakes...
my lil Buddy worked now 5 years under the Hood and decided to go this saturday.

RIP my friend...

Will load more Pictures later if interested

View attachment 1715071449

View attachment 1715071450

View attachment 1715071451
Click to expand...
died at the 1000 ft mark:----------------------------------------
was Elvis there ?
 
Krooser said:
The PM rods are better starting in '09... not sure how good. The GM PM rods are strong enough to last in a full season or more in 550 HP endurance applications. My son has them in his dirt car and they are a favorite in his neck of the woods.

Again the early oil pumps can't keep up to performance applications...

The cross drilled debate has been debated for 40 years with no clear winner at least in my mind. I never had a problem with one...that used to be the hot set-up in the 60's when all we had to run were stock cranks or outrageously expensive billet stuff.

I'd like to hear more aboutt the 'bad' combustion chamber design...

I'm not sure when this whole Gen 3 design was started but it seems to me that after Daimler got involved the whole line-up of Chrysler vehicles suffered from the poor design and/or materials in their engine line-up. Personally I've owned a 4.0 with piston issues and a 2.7 with water pump design flaws. Seems the bean counters had a lot of sway... and the German 'engineers' should have stayed working for the railroads.
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I agree. At 6000 cross drilling has little effect. There is a way to do it that doesn't turn the crank into a pump.

Never heard about the pump issue. I'm not surprised. They make everything as small as the can. I'm sure they reduced pump volume to save HP.
 
my guess is, since i opened the Motor, a rod bolt has been gone loose a bit or did lengthen? I found a lower rod piece and there is a small gap and the bolt is loose. on another piece the bolt is tight.

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yellow rose said:
I agree. At 6000 cross drilling has little effect. There is a way to do it that doesn't turn the crank into a pump.

Never heard about the pump issue. I'm not surprised. They make everything as small as the can. I'm sure they reduced pump volume to save HP.
Click to expand...

I believe that most of the issues these early '03-'08 engines suffered from were the result of engineers hoping to build a performance engine (which they did) but not taking into account the conditions the engines would have to survive in daily use... mostly in trucks.

Valve seat issues... many feel that overheating causes this... certainly doesn't help.

Weak connecting rods... can't take the rpm's?

Spun bearings... I've seen rods and mains.

Weak oil pumps... the upgrades on the '09's was done for a reason.

4032 pistons... may not like high temps?

Here's a scenario... Ram pick-up... loaded to 8,000 lbs. (lumber, boat, family...whatever). 90 plus summer temps. The driver is getting on the gas to merge onto the freeway... so we have high ambient temps.. high rpm's (maybe 4-5k plus?)... light 5w-something oil with a poorly designed oil pump? Repeat time and time again.

See where I'm going with this? Disaster is right around the corner.

Chargers and Challengers present different. but just as tough, operating conditions (mostly from a heavy right foot)...

Great motors but Mopar's legendary powertrain engineering took a temporary hit...
 
not possible that a bolt can lenghten? I think ist more likely it broke lose for some reason. But it scares me a bit for the replacing engine. this broken one is a 2010 engine... will be replaced now by a 2008 6.1 out of a C300. Are there differences? Pistons, rods, oilpump...
 
I still suspect the bolt from the rod cap got loose. Will check the remaining bolts for torque.
Are there better bolts like ARP available? Or am I fine with new stock bolts? For the new engine...
 
The Rod looks blue to me. That means it ran out of oil.

Can you post some pics of the main bearing bores for us?

Also, did you verify the crank is cross drilled? If it is, can you take a thin screw driver and and stick it from the Rod bearing feed to the main journal? That will show how they did the cross drill, if they did cross drill it.
 
Cross drilled? What does it mean exactly? I think it got that hot there because of a turned bearing. But that's just one of my 100 guesses...
Pics should show what exactly?
 
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