VENT FREE GAS LOG HEATER
- Thread starter cawley
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Natural gas found it to be very efficient.
Back in Time
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. The Gas Company I worked for would automatically red tag them as an unsafe appliance. In my opinion there is no way to burn a fossil fuel without venting it outside. I'm sure many will disagree but that's my opinion
So all those years with a pilot LIGHT in a gas stove caused what?
Aside from wasted energy.
Back in Time
Well-Known Member
Still vented outside.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
In some areas unvented (vent free) appliances are not allowed. Do NOT use them in confined areas or sleeping quarters. For me, LP (propane) is much more annoying in that condition than is NG. Makes lots of humidity!!
Old time natural gas with a pilot light cooking stoves were not vented outside.
Put a natural gas log setup in my originally wood-burning home fireplace over twenty years ago when I finally got tired of having to clean up ashes after a fire.
The logs we bought are very realistic and made of ceramic which both holds the heat and radiates a decent amount of it to the living room. It's much better since when we're through with the fire all we have to do is shut the valve off and it's done. No waiting for the fire to die and the embers to cool down.
Suggestion: put it the most realistic gas log you can find. Rock wool under the grate will give the impression of glowing embers.
The only things we really miss are the smell from the burning wood and the crackle. But we don't miss the chance of sparks and the additional fire danger.
Oh, and our dog loves standing in front of the fireplace and soaking in the warmth.
The logs we bought are very realistic and made of ceramic which both holds the heat and radiates a decent amount of it to the living room. It's much better since when we're through with the fire all we have to do is shut the valve off and it's done. No waiting for the fire to die and the embers to cool down.
Suggestion: put it the most realistic gas log you can find. Rock wool under the grate will give the impression of glowing embers.
The only things we really miss are the smell from the burning wood and the crackle. But we don't miss the chance of sparks and the additional fire danger.
Oh, and our dog loves standing in front of the fireplace and soaking in the warmth.
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Ddaddy
I'm changing the World... one pixel at a time!
It's actually the other way around. Natural Gas makes about 25% more water from combustion than Propane as a result of the chemistry of combustion.
Propane
100,000 BTUH = 0.98 Gallons of Water
Natural Gas
100,000 BTUH = 1.25 Gallons of Water
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
This is an entirely different deal than a vented one, but I can tell you a story about one (two) that cause a dangerous situation
In my days as an HVAC/R tech, we got a call from friends of the boss, these people own a big glass company in town. They have a split level home with a basement, and had two "70%" atmospheric burner furnaces in the basement. The upper level "rec room" had two fireplaces, and these had not been used much at all, and were kept with the dampers closed
"Another outfit" installed a gas log in the fireplaces. As per code, they had blocked the dampers open. Here is what happened:
With the gas logs OFF, the furnaces let's say, "turned down" a bit as evening progressed, and the family setting down, no doors or windows were (being) opened. With the fireplace dampers now blocked open, a constant draft was going up those two chimneys.
Meanwhile, the furnaces, as evening wore on, people going to bed, THE VENTS GOT COLD as the furnaces cycled less and less. At some point, later, the furnace(s) called for heat, and COULD NOT OVERCOME the COLD DRAFT FLOWING DOWN THE VENTS for the furnaces
These were both older furnaces, and had no "spill switches" (by design / manufacture) on the diverter hoods.
So the furnace(s) fired, and VENTED INTO THE BASEMENT. After firing for a period of time, the OXYGEN began to be DEPLETED by the vent gases dumping into the basement. This caused an "oxygen starved" situation at the burners WHICH BEGAN GENERATING CO (monoxide)
This family spent a VERY sick weekend before someone wised up.
"The fix"? Improve the furnace venting by adding some height, adding combustion air inlets into the basement through the sill, and running duct down near the floor/ burners, and INSTALLING AFTERMARKET SPILL SWITCHES on the draft diverters................And bought a CO detector
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I'm aware "I used to do this." I was talking about the smell of propane "unvented". I guess I didn't state that very well. I just meant that ANY combustion burner makes a fair amount of humidity if unvented
diymirage
HP@idle > hondaHP@redline
We have a gas fireplace inside the house (and a second one the patio)
Keep a close eye on little one, I have scrubbed more then one set of hand prints of the glass where little kids touched it and burned their hands
Keep a close eye on little one, I have scrubbed more then one set of hand prints of the glass where little kids touched it and burned their hands
The reason I asked is I just my local propane company install a vent free gas log heater w/ thermostat. I got it at home depot. They installed it in the fire place where we use to burn fire wood. So fare no smell. Works good. They told me to keep the flume door open a small crack. Now I don't use it as my main heat source, just to take the chill off. They installed it last Thursday. Today they came to see how much I used & fill me up if needed. Today as in Monday. The guy was puzzled. He said I used 96lbs of propane. Its a 100lb tank. He said he will get back to me because I should've used that much in that short of time. I have know idea. This is all new to me. Its a 32,000 btu, 1,300 sq ft, 99.9% efficient set up.
You would think that the propane company would tell me that. Why would they sell something like that. I have 2 friends that are contractors & they didn't mention anything. It is not completely enclosed. I have a carbon monoxide detector.
Their math is off. It's not possible to use 96% of the tank.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
OK, here's the thing. Putting a "gas log" into a typical wood fireplace:
1.....MOST wood fireplaces, that take combustion air from the room.....ARE NOT heating appliances, unless a "roaring fire" is kept up. This is because they draft far more air up the stack than they provide heat. This air HAS to come INTO the house through all the gaps, cracks, and leaks in the house
2....A gas log installed into an "above" fireplace IS NOT going to have any heating efficiency AT ALL They are an APPEARANCE (ambiance) device, not a heat providing appliance
3....A PACKAGED gas fireplace, with sealed gas doors, and outdoor ducting for combustion air, IS (can be) efficient, approaching 80%. An example would be one that REPLACES a free standing wood stove, or a packaged INSERT into a fireplace
Simiiar to this: This has "outside air for combustion" and will have glass doors when installed. These should be able to reach efficiency ratings similar to free standing units
1.....MOST wood fireplaces, that take combustion air from the room.....ARE NOT heating appliances, unless a "roaring fire" is kept up. This is because they draft far more air up the stack than they provide heat. This air HAS to come INTO the house through all the gaps, cracks, and leaks in the house
2....A gas log installed into an "above" fireplace IS NOT going to have any heating efficiency AT ALL They are an APPEARANCE (ambiance) device, not a heat providing appliance
3....A PACKAGED gas fireplace, with sealed gas doors, and outdoor ducting for combustion air, IS (can be) efficient, approaching 80%. An example would be one that REPLACES a free standing wood stove, or a packaged INSERT into a fireplace
Simiiar to this: This has "outside air for combustion" and will have glass doors when installed. These should be able to reach efficiency ratings similar to free standing units
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
OK look. If you installed an appliance IN the fireplace it SHOULD NOT be vent free. It also can never be very efficient
Post up the make and model, and let's see if we can find an installation manual online
I had a vented propane free standing fireplace in my living room. Maybe ran an hour a day every evening. I wouldnt get a month out of a 100 lb propane tank,75 dollar fill. House got cold,as it was upstairs and thermostat would read the heat from fireplace.
So it was very expensive to run,and made one room unbearably hot while rest of house cooled off.
My pellet stove in basement running 1/2 capacity nearly heats entire house. At 170 per tonne its cheap to run. Will be switching to better pellets so my cost of pellets will double but they burn hotter and less ash and cleaner burn.
So it was very expensive to run,and made one room unbearably hot while rest of house cooled off.
My pellet stove in basement running 1/2 capacity nearly heats entire house. At 170 per tonne its cheap to run. Will be switching to better pellets so my cost of pellets will double but they burn hotter and less ash and cleaner burn.
And it will detect and alert you of high levels that can kill you quickly. It won’t alert you of the long term effects of exposure to low doses of carbon monoxide..
Bought our first vent free gas log unit about 25 years ago. Jotul number 3 ( google it if you want ). It's a free standing cast iron stove. Wife just wasn't satisfied. She wanted a real fireplace with mantel. So after the daughter moved away we forfeited that bedroom closet to cut in a 32 inch wide fireplace in the living room wall. Still vent free propane. Either has been ran from sun up to sundown. With bedroom doors closed the center of the house stays toasty warm.
Only time we would run one at night was during a power failure ( like that big ice storm we had a few years back ). We slept in here by it. We even used them for cooking. On top the cast iron stove was easy enough. Cooking in the fireplace wasn't so easy. Ceramic logs out, bricks and a grille grate in. Far as we can tell, its not killing us quicker than anything else. Dying to find out LOL
Because I have electric heat, used at night when its coldest, Propane heats about 750 sq. ft. 10 or 12 hours per day, I can't compare gas usage. I'll say this, If we tried to stay so toasty warm with the electric heat, the power bill would bankrupt us.
Only time we would run one at night was during a power failure ( like that big ice storm we had a few years back ). We slept in here by it. We even used them for cooking. On top the cast iron stove was easy enough. Cooking in the fireplace wasn't so easy. Ceramic logs out, bricks and a grille grate in. Far as we can tell, its not killing us quicker than anything else. Dying to find out LOL
Because I have electric heat, used at night when its coldest, Propane heats about 750 sq. ft. 10 or 12 hours per day, I can't compare gas usage. I'll say this, If we tried to stay so toasty warm with the electric heat, the power bill would bankrupt us.
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Additional thoughts... I don't know if you have a gas leak or not. I don't know what sort of burner/log set you have. The little Jotul was a single burner setup. Log set in the fireplace is a much larger two burner set up. One burner is mostly blue flame, 70% of the heat production, heats logs to glowing red. The second burner makes all the orange flame tips between logs which is more decorative than heat. We rarely turn that burner on.
Ok so here is the deal. I found out that the 100lb tank only had 20lbs in it when they installed it. They did the math & I used about 5lbs a day. I don't heat the whole house. I use it to take the chill off in the living room & so I can turn off the electric base board heat in the room. The electric heat bill is going to kill me until I get an oil furnace installed. I have the thermostat set so it keeps the room around 67 to 69. Once I get the oil furnace in it will be for only show or when the power goes out.
That usage amount sounds a LOT more reasonable/accurate. I'll go ahead and tell all... Aint never had a propane tank service here. I've always used 20 gallon grille bottles. Yep, Changed out the bottle every 3 or 4 days for like 25 winters. Andddd that how I know the second "pretty fire" burner will blow through some propane in a hurry.
If I could get shed of the B'cuda vert project, use the basement for something other than part storage, I would hook up the Jotul stove in the basement. Then I would need a large tank service. And since heat rises, I might no longer need the electric heat at all. Wanna buy a car?
Happy holidays
Well where does the "exhaust" go? And there IS some kinda exhaust. A flame doesn't burn without something going into the air.
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