'67-'68 (maybe '69 too?), Grill Surround repair kit

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HMBCUDA

HMBCUDA

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Half Moon Bay, Ca.
Hello All,
I thought i would through this Idea out there to the fellow A-body owners on the site and see if there may be a need/want for an "A-body Barracuda grill surround Repair Kit"

Here's Why I'm thinking this, (and thinking) Others may be in need.

It has taken me over the past several months,(4-5), to round up the hardware, and tools, (actually still working on the tools, I still have some Dies that need to be made), but hope to get into the machine shop next week.

I had to order a minimum number of hardware parts so I have lots extra, enough to rebuild several grill surrounds. I also need to get some tools/dies made to set the studs and squelch the rivets.

So am thinking, as long as I'm going through all this, I might as well make some extra and help someone else out there that might be in need.

These kit won't be free of coarse...putting lots of time & money into it so far, & not finished yet. AND still not sure If the tool will actually work because some are not made yet and I have not completed rebuilding MY Grill Surround! (But am 99.9% confident they will work)

When I Say "REBUILD" KIT:
1) Specially made replacement studs
2) Die/tool to press them into the various brackets that are on the grill surround (after broken studs are CAREFULLY removed)
3) All 6 different size semi-tubular rivets needed to assemble the grill surrounds (2) and also the (2) head light surrounds (this is if/when you CAREFULLY grind off the rivet backs and EVERYTHING is in pieces)
4) Specially made tools/dies to set the rivets (2)
PRICE...? $175-200

I know most will say why am I going through all this trouble, just pop-rivet everything, Micky Mouse the stud issue, etc. BUT that's not my style, I want mine as close to OEM as possible, 50yrs after the fact.

Thank for any responses!
Dan
 
I hope you post your progress on this I think if it works out there may be a market for it.
 
The welded studs can easily be replaced with cadmium plated T-bolts. ( Generic and identical to those used in the 67 B'cudas upper and lower deck lid trims ). Assembly with these additional small pieces is a bit tedious which sheds light on why they put welded studs here.
So those T-bolts and pop rivets pretty much conquers the outer surrounds.
There are smaller studs in the inner surrounds with square heads captured in aluminum channel. If you ever had one or more of those studs spin inside the aluminum.... After 3 pairs of 67,8 grilles I assume there are even more issues I haven't encountered.
In my opinion, Your kit stops short of complete. Good luck with it.
 
I paid a shop in LA to restore my surrounds( the outer-most 1" wide aluminum strip. They replated the anodize, cleaned up and polished my chrome headlight surrounds and cleaned all the remaining parts. I was able to use 2 different sized common rivets to reassemble everything.

Does your kit include dies to straighten the surrounds or just rivets and tools to "pop" them into place? I just used a common rivet gun. It worked perfectly.

I reassembled everything, painted the argent portions with a rattle can and they came out looking like new. I know I would have never gotten my smashed up aluminum surrounds to look anything like they did. It's amazing to me that people have these skills. It's beyond me. I swear these guys could straighten a smashed aluminum can if you wanted them to.

They charged me $2000 including shipping both ways, but It was well worth it to me. They wanted nearly $4000 to completely restore them including repainting the argent, the black strip on the surrounds, the grills themselves and final assembly. I'm glad I didn't pay that much, as painting the remaining parts and reassembling the grills was not that bad of a job. Especially with the help and photos from members here.

1968 Barracuda Grill Assembly 1.jpg


1968 Barracuda Grill Assembly 2.jpg


1968 Barracuda Grill Assembly 3.jpg
 
jbc426 said:
I paid a shop in LA to restore my surrounds( the outer-most 1" wide aluminum strip. They replated the anodize, cleaned up and polished my chrome headlight surrounds and cleaned all the remaining parts. I was able to use 2 different sized common rivets to reassemble everything.

Does your kit include dies to straighten the surrounds or just rivets and tools to "pop" them into place? I just used a common rivet gun. It worked perfectly.

I reassembled everything, painted the argent portions with a rattle can and they came out looking like new. I know I would have never gotten my smashed up aluminum surrounds to look anything like they did. It's amazing to me that people have these skills. It's beyond me. I swear these guys could straighten a smashed aluminum can if you wanted them to.

They charged me $2000 including shipping both ways, but It was well worth it to me. They wanted nearly $4000 to completely restore them including repainting the argent, the black strip on the surrounds, the grills themselves and final assembly. I'm glad I didn't pay that much, as painting the remaining parts and reassembling the grills was not that bad of a job. Especially with the help and photos from members here.

View attachment 1715131665

View attachment 1715131666

View attachment 1715131667
Click to expand...
Looks like the work of King Of Trim?
They look Great! NOT cheap, but they look like new!

No dies for straightening, just tools to crimp/roll the original style rivets, and set the studs.

I drove down from HMB to hand deliver mine to King of Trim, I had 3 sets that needed straightening and decided to just have them all fixed and bright dipped,(didn't trust USPS, or UPS, guess I have trust issues, Ha!), and they did a great job on mine too. I had mine painted by a guy,(local) and now am going to try to complete the assembly.

I didn't want to use pop-rivets, call me hard headed...(or what-ever), but I want to put them back together as close to original as possible.

This would be something that maybe guy that have a rare car that they want to show/judged, I would thing judges would take off points if they saw pop rivets, but who knows...(my car's not, but i'm hard headed)

I think I may make three sets of tools, (depending on how much the machine shop is going to charge me)

Maybe I will offer the hardware kit with the option to RENT the tools to assemble, since it is sort of a one time deal, unless you want to go into the business of rebuilding grills.

I'm going to try to take good pics of the assembly process an where i used the different length rivets, to assist with the kit/rebuild process.

Would like to here from others as well on what you think.
Thanks!
 
RedFish said:
The welded studs can easily be replaced with cadmium plated T-bolts. ( Generic and identical to those used in the 67 B'cudas upper and lower deck lid trims ). Assembly with these additional small pieces is a bit tedious which sheds light on why they put welded studs here.
So those T-bolts and pop rivets pretty much conquers the outer surrounds.
There are smaller studs in the inner surrounds with square heads captured in aluminum channel. If you ever had one or more of those studs spin inside the aluminum.... After 3 pairs of 67,8 grilles I assume there are even more issues I haven't encountered.
In my opinion, Your kit stops short of complete. Good luck with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks, red fish, like to see the studs you refer to, I couldn't find anything out there, (besides what i had made up), that seemed like they would work and be close to original.
 
HMBCUDA said:
Thanks, red fish, like to see the studs you refer to, I couldn't find anything out there, (besides what i had made up), that seemed like they would work and be close to original.
Click to expand...

Just saw someone do this last week...

Take the old clips with broken studs and grind the head down. The stud will come out through the threaded side. You will be left with a clip with a square hex in the middle.

Then buy carriage bolts with the right square hex. Grind the dome/head of the carriage bolt flat. You can put some JB weld on underside of bolt head to keep it from comming out of the square hex. But once tightened doesnt matter and not really room in there to fall out. All you are going to see from the inside of the header panel is the threads and bolts. And even those are completely buried.
 
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These worked perfect for me.$5/pack Or close to it. Different sizes available
HMBCUDA said:
Thanks, red fish, like to see the studs you refer to, I couldn't find anything out there, (besides what i had made up), that seemed like they would work and be close to original.
Click to expand...

20170812_120743.jpg


20180120_204221.jpg
 
HMBCUDA said:
Looks like the work of King Of Trim?
They look Great! NOT cheap, but they look like new!
Click to expand...

Yes, they did the work. It is truly amazing what they can do.

I understand what you are offering now. It will come in handy for those who attempt a very complete factory looking restoration. Great job on even coming up with the rare hard to find parts.
 
4spdragtop said:
These worked perfect for me.$5/pack Or close to it. Different sizes available


View attachment 1715132557

View attachment 1715132558
Click to expand...
That's the one. It is a generic trim fastener used in many applications. First I bought from a local paint and body store, early 80s. Later I ordered online from Mr. G's Fasteners.
For this grille application there are a couple spots where you might consider trim or remove the spring wire. You wouldn't want it sticking out of a gap between 2 parts. If you pay close attention to which way its turned at install that cant happen.
As for those smaller studs in the inner surround that turned in the aluminum channel... all thread. I used brass screws. Heated and some hammer reshaping, bent 90 degrees, created a head that aint going to turn.
 
autoxcuda said:
Just saw someone do this last week...

Take the old clips with broken studs and grind the head down. The stud will come out through the threaded side. You will be left with a clip with a square hex in the middle.

Then buy carriage bolts with the right square hex. Grind the dome/head of the carriage bolt flat. You can put some JB weld on underside of bolt head to keep it from comming out of the square hex. But once tightened doesnt matter and not really room in there to fall out. All you are going to see from the inside of the header panel is the threads and bolts. And even those are completely buried.
Click to expand...

This has me thinking that you may have seen a '67? taken apart and repaired, I am not familiar with the '67 or '69 grill surrounds. Sounds like the stud hardware is different than the '68's!
After removing my stud, (as you described), (ALL) The hole on '68's are round, doesn't really supersize me, just about every other part on these cars are a little unique in one way.
I agree with there is more than one way to skin a cat! (as far as how-to repair these parts)
 
HMBCUDA said:
This has me thinking that you may have seen a '67? taken apart and repaired, I am not familiar with the '67 or '69 grill surrounds. Sounds like the stud hardware is different than the '68's!
After removing my stud, (as you described), (ALL) The hole on '68's are round, doesn't really supersize me, just about every other part on these cars are a little unique in one way.
I agree with there is more than one way to skin a cat! (as far as how-to repair these parts)
Click to expand...


My friend that did this fix squared the round hole with a small square file. That would not be very time consuming. Sorry I missed this in the explanation above.

A picture of the repair I talking about would really help. Sorry I don't have any.

Here's the square file to use. Very simple quick work to make the round hole square.

IMG_2034.JPG


IMG_2035.JPG


IMG_2036.JPG
 
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They worked great. I did an "afternoon resto" on my 67. I have another set that will get a more complete treatment. I bought a mittful of those fasteners.
HMBCUDA said:
oh yeah, i can see these working, a little grinding -off here and there, so they fit flush.
Click to expand...
 
HMBCUDA said:
This has me thinking that you may have seen a '67? taken apart and repaired, I am not familiar with the '67 or '69 grill surrounds. Sounds like the stud hardware is different than the '68's!
After removing my stud, (as you described), (ALL) The hole on '68's are round, doesn't really supersize me, just about every other part on these cars are a little unique in one way.
I agree with there is more than one way to skin a cat! (as far as how-to repair these parts)
Click to expand...
They are all a different, some more than others. 67 and 8 are not so different but 69 changed a lot.
Anodized aluminum was replaced with chromed pot metal, etc...
There was a company called Savage that built modified B'cudas. Starting with 67 model, One of their "tricks" was to use a section of a 3rd grille to create a continuous grille ( sheet metal cut from the header panel ), more of a Dart look in result. There are pictures floating around the web. Anyway... Imagine their displeasure with the OEM mfgr changing these grilles with every year model. As far as I know, there wasn't a 69 model Savage Barracuda.
 
autoxcuda said:
My friend that did this fix squared the round hole with a small square file. That would not be very time consuming. Sorry I missed this in the explanation above.

A picture of the repair I talking about would really help. Sorry I don't have any.

Here's the square file to use. Very simple quick work to make the round hole square.

View attachment 1715132779

View attachment 1715132780

View attachment 1715132782
Click to expand...

I'm set on the Studs,(have 100!) "special" made to fit the original '68 bracket holes, press in, no glue, weld, etc. required, pretty much exactly like the original head too (flat) no grinding required.

Difference is they are stainless steel, and do not have the special "tip". (to make it easier not to cross thread)

Thanks! Good Info for repair options! I didn't realize '67 holes were square!

If I make up some sort of "Kit" may have to title it:
'68 (ONLY) Barracuda Grill surround "Stud Repair" and "Assembly" Kit
 
HMBCUDA said:
I'm set on the Studs,(have 100!) "special" made to fit the original '68 bracket holes, press in, no glue, weld, etc. required, pretty much exactly like the original head too (flat) no grinding required.

Difference is they are stainless steel, and do not have the special "tip". (to make it easier not to cross thread)

Thanks! Good Info for repair options! I didn't realize '67 holes were square!

If I make up some sort of "Kit" may have to title it:
'68 (ONLY) Barracuda Grill surround "Stud Repair" and "Assembly" Kit
Click to expand...

67 is not square. 67 is round just like 68's. Any kit you make would apply to 67 and 68's equally.

The round holes were made square with a small square file. The clips modified.


You can see tell the difference from pop rivets when you look close.

There are dies for regular rivets (non pop type) on the market now. Would be nice to have the right dies and rivets for these grilles and not unnecessary ones. Would you need a rivet press to use your dies in your kit?
 
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autoxcuda said:
67 is not square. 67 is round just like 68's. Any kit you make would apply to 67 and 68's equally.

The round holes were made square with a small square file. The clips modified.


You can see tell the difference from pop rivets when you look close.

There are dies for regular rivets (non pop type) on the market now. Would be nice to have the right dies and rivets for these grilles and not unnecessary ones. Would you need a rivet press to use your dies in your kit?
Click to expand...

Oh ok, '67 are round too, Good!

I am going to tool up some special tools that will use a set of "1/8" rivet dies" that can be purchased, (I would buy them and include in the kit), BUT ALSO, I am going to have a machinist, (as soon as he has time, he told me this Sat, but i think he's going to delay me another week or two now, He's busy), make some special Dies (that will work with one of the tools), to get in the tight spots, and also special dies to press the studs, into the the brackets.

I would supply all the hardware: special studs, and 6 different size,(length), semi-hollow rivets required to "assemble" the Grill surround, with pictures with instructions.

I'm Up in the air about if I should just "RENT"(?) the tools to those that need them, or sell them. Depends how much the machinist charges me, and if there is any market/need out there for it, I would keep the cost of it as low as possible. Maybe have a high deposit so people don't trash/keep them, but charge $50 to rent? Everything still depends if I get the tools and dies made up, and they work! Ha!

I haven't found any nuts that are close to original, (yet), so hopefully people have their original nuts, or don't mind using nuts from the hardware store.
 
HMBCUDA said:
Oh ok, '67 are round too, Good!

I am going to tool up some special tools that will use a set of "1/8" rivet dies" that can be purchased, (I would buy them and include in the kit), BUT ALSO, I am going to have a machinist, (as soon as he has time, he told me this Sat, but i think he's going to delay me another week or two now, He's busy), make some special Dies (that will work with one of the tools), to get in the tight spots, and also special dies to press the studs, into the the brackets.

I would supply all the hardware: special studs, and 6 different size,(length), semi-hollow rivets required to "assemble" the Grill surround, with pictures with instructions.

I'm Up in the air about if I should just "RENT"(?) the tools to those that need them, or sell them. Depends how much the machinist charges me, and if there is any market/need out there for it, I would keep the cost of it as low as possible. Maybe have a high deposit so people don't trash/keep them, but charge $50 to rent? Everything still depends if I get the tools and dies made up, and they work! Ha!

I haven't found any nuts that are close to original, (yet), so hopefully people have their original nuts, or don't mind using nuts from the hardware store.
Click to expand...
Nice work, stay at it
 
Thanks! I have to stay patient, unbelievably long time to get it together, have all the hardware, now have to wait for the machinist to decide when he has time.

Want to thank everyone for your input and info!
 
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