Mopar mopar forum
 HOME  FORUMS   MEMBER PHOTO GALLERY  CHAT    REGISTER  FABO STORE  
 MEMBER CLASSIFIEDS  VIN DECODER  VIDEO GALLERY
Our Network:  B BODY MOPAR FORUM  C BODY MOPAR FORUM  E BODY MOPAR FORUM  FMJ BODY MOPAR FORUM  CAR AUDIO TALK  PICKUP TRUCK FORUM  FOR JEEPS ONLY

Go Back   For A Bodies Only Mopar Forum > Automotive Technical Forums > Electrical and Ignition



Advance adjustment(s)

Electrical and Ignition



 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-29-2012, 11:23 AM   #1
canyncarvr
Member
 
canyncarvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 34
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
canyncarvr's Flag is: United States
Advance adjustment(s)

Greetings:

Re: A one-each 'performance' distributor, aluminum body. One of the <$200 units, not any fancy billet blingy.

It was advertised as having 'quick' springs in it. I haven't been INto it to check, but mechanical is all in by 1800rpm or so.

What I want to resolve is an idle speed issue. I'm running a 3844 HE cam. It will idle at 700rpm fine (oil at 60psi), but it won't DROP to that idle from a higher RPM without pulling the engine speed down with the clutch.

The idle speed won't drop 'cuz the springs let the advance work, which raises the engine speed, which keeps the springs stretched..a positive feedback kind'a thing.

I would prefer the idle to be around 1000rpm or so, but can't GET there because of the 'loop': Idle is either lower than I'd like (no advance) or higher than I'd like (mechanically advanced) if I don't pull the rpm down with the clutch.

I see the lighter springs available for the distributor, but the only 'kit' I see that would get me stiffer springs is P5153446 and I don't need all the stuff that part comes with.

Any input on some method other than stiffer springs to get to where I want to go rpm-wise?

Maybe a set of springs that isn't $40?

FWIW: Mechanical is set to 28º, total to 44º, ported vacuum. That's a good bit lower total than usual to resolve some detonation I get when not using rather 'exotic' fuels (Trick or VP...or clear 92 with a 5% toluene add). HE specs the cam at 175psi, my engine is 175.

Any pointers appreciated! Thanks!

Last edited by canyncarvr; 08-30-2012 at 12:00 PM. Reason: speling and grammer
canyncarvr is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 08-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #2
73SwingerBuild
Senior Member
 
73SwingerBuild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 819
Thanks: 5
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
73SwingerBuild's Flag is: United States
I had/have the same problem with the mystery 340 I bought and put in my swinger (I call it a mystery because I do not know what cam/compression it has and it basically came to me as a 2,000 mile crate motor.

I believe the distributor is a stock Mopar part (based on the part number), but I have no idea what the springs are. I found that the issue goes away if I run the motor hard for a few minutes and then park it, as it idles fine right around 700-800. However, if I rev the motor in neutral it will let the idle creep up to 1,000-1,200.

I wonder if I'm having the same issue with the springs that you have. Waiting for somebody more experienced to chime in here.

Thanks for posting.

-Mike
73SwingerBuild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 07:42 PM   #3
canyncarvr
Member
 
canyncarvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 34
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
canyncarvr's Flag is: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73SwingerBuild View Post
I had/have the same problem with the mystery 340 I bought and put in my swinger (I call it a mystery because I do not know what cam/compression it has and it basically came to me as a 2,000 mile crate motor.

I believe the distributor is a stock Mopar part (based on the part number), but I have no idea what the springs are. I found that the issue goes away if I run the motor hard for a few minutes and then park it, as it idles fine right around 700-800. However, if I rev the motor in neutral it will let the idle creep up to 1,000-1,200.

I wonder if I'm having the same issue with the springs that you have. Waiting for somebody more experienced to chime in here.

Thanks for posting.

-Mike
My distributor isn't new..but the car has been sitting in the garage doing nothing for a l-o-n-g time since it WAS new. I may find out differently when I get around to taking the distributor apart, but I am assuming the mechanism in mine to be in good shape.

I can think of several things that might cause what you describe in your rig...a sticking spark advance mechanism being one of 'em.

I see the YH (Mallory) 'kit' at Summit for a lot less than I had been seeing it. With a bit stiffer spring set and changing the stops, I think what I'm looking to fix will be fixed.

I'm not looking to get into a 'It doesn't matter!' session, but my initial is 2º, and I want to change that, too.

...by doing the same thing: Tightening the springs and changing the stops.

It'll all get sorted eventually!
canyncarvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 02:08 AM   #4
BillGrissom
Cheap Mopar Bastard
 
BillGrissom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 3,026
Thanks: 0
Thanked 124 Times in 124 Posts
BillGrissom's Flag is: United States
Can't help you fix it, but can help confirm your theory of the positive feedback. The manual for the Holley Commander 950 (can find online) talks of setting the timing advance curve with a flat spot around the idle rpm so the engine doesn't want to run away when it sees more advance and likes it. I imagine the factory distributor weights were designed the same way with some deadband around idle.
BillGrissom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 02:56 AM   #5
srixon4406
TURBO TOAD
 
srixon4406's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Clarklake Mich
Posts: 860
Thanks: 37
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
srixon4406's Flag is: United States
Have you tired run vacuum off the manifold I was just researching this for my turbo build here's a good link/debut with real world experience
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/vacu...d-47495-4.html

Aaron
srixon4406 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 12:10 PM   #6
canyncarvr
Member
 
canyncarvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 34
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
canyncarvr's Flag is: United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by srixon4406 View Post
Have you tired run vacuum off the manifold I was just researching this for my turbo build here's a good link/debut with real world experience
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/vacu...d-47495-4.html

Aaron
Yes. My Holley has access to both....ported and manifold. The engine will not 'settle' to idle with either. Vacuum advance is not causing the problem.

At idle speeds with the HE3844 there isn't much in the way of vacuum, period. It's not as bad as the 292 PurpleShaft I used to run. That gave me pressure at idle. Great for vacuum boosted brakes!!! (kidding)

I'm sure there is NO 'flat spot' in the YH Mallory distributor with the flimsy springs.
canyncarvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 12:49 PM   #7
ryanwblandon
Member
 
ryanwblandon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Breinigsville, PA
Posts: 80
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
ryanwblandon's Flag is: United States
Send a message via AIM to ryanwblandon
Have you tried looking into the springs on the distributor? If in fact they put light springs in you can purchase springs to adjust how fast you want your advance to come in. I have to do this back in the day I went with too light of a spring and had the same issue. Usually two springs I had one light and one medium, it did the trick. You may have to play around to find your perfect fit.
ryanwblandon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #8
canyncarvr
Member
 
canyncarvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 34
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
canyncarvr's Flag is: United States
YH setup

Some notes that may be helpful to other Mallory YH (Mopar Performance) distributor owners....

I used Mallory's kit to tune my distributor, Mallory PN29014:



As noted by ryanwblandon, my MP unit was setup with two pink springs which gets you a single stage 'matched spring' advance. Mallory's notes in the kit say that any YH unit PN that ends in -05 will have two pink springs. The mechanical stops were full open which provided 32º total mechanical advance. I started with a 28º total @2200rpm/2ºATDC @750rpm initial.

I installed Mallory's recommendation for springs: Purple/brown. The purple spring is loose on one end which gives the curve a 'two-stage' effect. I adjusted the mechanical stops using the 20º tab from the kit. MP setup info lists 32º for my heads ('69 X). I was after something in the vicinity of 12ºBTDC initial with the listed 32º mechanical total.

The stop tabs on the YH advance mechanism are iffy. The plate is sloppy, making it easy to end up with the two stops at different settings. The differently marked tabs are less than stellar when it comes to setting the stops. Even with making sure the stop-tab plate is 'equal' on both sides, the 20º tab fit differently from one side to the other. A bit of 'tweak' to the tabs will take care of that. DO take some care when setting the mechanical stops if you want both of 'em the same.

The end result was a 33º total @3100rpm, a 12º initial @900RPM. Just a tad 'off', but something expected considering how loose the stop mechanism is designed.

The vacuum can on my MP distributor is stamped '11R'. With vacuum attached, I had 52º @3300rpm.

I did notice the timing tape appeared to be considerably more steady AFTER the spring replacement.

I've read BOTH descriptions of what CW and CCW accomplishes, but on my MP distributor a CW adjustment resulted in a later/slower vacuum advance, a CCW adjustment was sooner/faster. The total advance didn't change, just WHEN it started and how FAST it completed. If you want a different amount of advance, you will need a different vac can.

The plate assy was a tight fit in the distributor body. It had to be pried out. That made reassembly a pain when fussing with the vacuum can tab. A bit of look-see will likely show where the plates are binding on the body. In my case, where the screw tab was bent on the plate had a couple rough spots. A touch of a file (keep any filings off the pickup!) to those spots made the fit a LOT easier.

My idle is much better. It will still hang when the engine is hot..but not to the extent it did prior. A 12ºBTDC sure helped the brake booster! I used to 'run out' of power brakes on a regular basis. Yeah...I have a vacuum 'storage' can, but it happens to be sitting in a 'spare parts' box..NOT on the car. A whole lott'a good THAT does, 'eh?

The car runs considerably better. Part of that surely due to adjusting the 4-corner idle mixture screws. A completely non-scientific nor mathmatically correct fuel consumption 'test' (looking at the fuel gauge) showed a considerable increase in fuel efficiency. Engine runs hotter, starts a tad harder. By 'harder' I mean it used to fire with just a t-o-u-c-h of the starter, now it cranks a revolution or two. Not a big deal.

IF you are running an MP distributor, don't hesitate to get it tuned. I should have done it LONG ago. Simply didn't get it done.

A btw..but with a carb sync tool connected to the manifold/port nipples on my Holley the difference measured between the two isn't much..a couple of inches off-idle is all.
canyncarvr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MP Distributor Mechanical Advance Adjustment? scooby67 Electrical and Ignition 9 06-20-2012 07:57 PM
Vacuum Advance Adjustment Help dusty1 Electrical and Ignition 6 07-20-2010 07:12 AM
vacum advance or mechanical advance???? emnestor Electrical and Ignition 5 06-28-2010 05:29 PM
to advance or not to advance cam??? earthmover Racers Forum 14 02-07-2010 08:58 PM
Full throttle kickdown adjustment vs shift points adjustment k3522 Transmission and Drivetrain Tech 1 09-12-2008 09:35 PM


Fabo Sponsors

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:41 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Page generated in 0.21057 seconds with 22 queries