HOT running mopar 360LA

[MOPEkidD-3]

Radiator/fan setup looks good to me... I'd try a smaller water pump pulley, the one you have looks like the bigger non-A/C one. Did you get a chance to check the total timing?

Just curious, what cam is in your engine? Also I noticed you have EFI, what kind of system is it? Should be pretty easy to get some A/F readings if it's closed-loop.

And the other guys were asking, what's the temperature outside going by the weather report when you're at the dunes?

[tekslk]

I had heat problems used royal purple ice you can get it at summit you might get 10-20 degrees cooler with this. Google it and read about it.

[Plato2k5]

Ok guys. I feel I need to get all my info corrected here so I need to start from scratch and write it all down.

The EFI system I am using is Megasquirt. My air fuel is around 14.2-14.8:1 normal driving. At the dunes I was seeing 9:1, 12:1, as I have not really tuned it in with the new cam. Never ran lean as I like to run more rich to be sure to keep the engine happy.

The ambient temps were 80-low 90.

Now I took my pump off and its a mopar performance 8 blade with a cavitation plate.

The crank pulley has 4 grooves, the 2 nearest the engine are bigger then the outter 2 towards the radiator. My stock alt. had a pulley with 2 grooves as well. So to me it seems I have an A/C pulley.

I took the pulley and put it against the crank pulley and the water pump pulley is a bit smaller, indicating it spins faster.

Now I welded a plate to the 6 blade and it seem to hit the timing cover. Also the bottom most bolt stripped So I have to take it all apart tomorrow, i'll grind the plate off and just leave it as is.

perhaps I'm over spinning the 8 blade over 4k causing cavitation.

Sorry for the miss info guys. I'm just really flustered with this issue and have been chasing it for years upon years. I just don't know what to do.

I like to jump to conclusions in hopes it fixes things. But tomorrow I'm just going to take a step back and go slow. I'm not in a rush to get this thing going. But if this pump does not fix it, motor is coming out.

[1wild&crazyguy]

too fat at 9.-12. all the time. what heads, magnum?

[1wild&crazyguy]

what thermostat?

[OLDSTYLE]

What is the coolant mixture? Does the temp level off at 220* or will it keep climbing?

[Plato2k5]

Yes I know its to rich. Its a pain to tune it by myself. I really need someone to drive as I work the laptop, however no one wanted to drive.

Tstat is one you buy at the parts store, 180*

coolant mixture is i think good for up to -20 since I live in MI and the jeep sites outside.

It will contiune to climb if I keep pushing it. At times It was at 240+.

Heads are non mag.

[1wild&crazyguy]

well sounds like high compression,too high.

Does it ping under load?

if it's not pinging....then check for air bubbles in the radiator or look into possibly needing a larger core.


but whats the timing, initial and full advance?
Are u running vacuum advance, how much total timing do you get with it ?

[sst3193]

Pro-street Cuda we built was running way too hot all the time and since I was sure the ignition, radiator were good, we bought a better trans cooler. It seemed to help some, but we couldn't keep the temps down enough to allow the car to be used any day, any weather, any traffic. The aftermarket torque converter was the culprit, in this case, because as soon as it got changed the problem dissappeared.

[moper]

Originally Posted by tekslk

I had heat problems used royal purple ice you can get it at summit you might get 10-20 degrees cooler with this. Google it and read about it.

As above, a product called water wetter may also help - they basically increase the heat transferring ability of the coolant. Not a ton more, but a little more. With ambient temps in the 90 range and constant heavy throttle needed I don't think it's good, but I also might not call it a normal problem. Retarded timing adds heat, as does a lean mixture. Sounds like the tune is pretty close as it is which makes me think it might be something more... When the engine was rebuilt - how were the block's cooling passages cleaned? If it was only boiled there may still be rust buildup on the cylinder walls. If it's taking too much throttle to run I'd suggest a gearing change to give the engine more leverage.

[MOPEkidD-3]

I agree with 1wild&crazyguy you may just have too high compression for that type of application and the engine is putting out too much heat for the cooling system to control. You say you have non-Magnum heads, with 10:1 compression many will agree that's too much for pump gas and open chambers unless you run a big enough cam. What kind of cam does your engine have?

I think my solution would be to get the ignition timing dialed in and just start mixing race gas with premium pump when you hit the dunes... Or swap to closed-chamber heads.

[daredevil]

This was how my 500 inch Coronet acted with a brand new champion radiator in it. Switched to a Griffin 2 core with 1.25 inch tubes and that fixed it. What brand radiator do you have?.

[Screamin340Demon]

just looking at the first picture looks like top radiator hose is higher than the radiator it may have air in the system for starters. Next thing I would is take the electric fan off and put a clutch fan on.
I used to have overheating problems with temps like yours on my Demon because of a electric fan on a becool radiator. Changed out the electric fan for a fan clutch and used a shorter than stock (because of clearance) fan clutch for a Jaguar. I drive my demon 3000-3500 rpm cruising here in Texas never runs hot anymore

[1wild&crazyguy]

Originally Posted by daredevil

This was how my 500 inch Coronet acted with a brand new champion radiator in it. Switched to a Griffin 2 core with 1.25 inch tubes and that fixed it. What brand radiator do you have?.

Same here, bought a brand new 3 row 340 replacement radiator...it ran HOT...so i gambled on a BWM cross flow 1 row aluminum with with over an inch of tube/core diameter and bingo, thing runs nice n cool, i got to go down in fan size after that too which is always good for the impeller bearings on the pump.lol

[Plato2k5]

sorry for the long delay in responding. Very great info guys, I greatly appreciate all this help!

Sorry if I miss answering some of your questions.

Radiator is a custom built from a shop here in MI. Two guys in the group I run with have this set up in their jeeps with v8 engines. There is a guy with an LT1, and another with a 5.3. Granted they are different engines and stock then what I run.

I changed the pump to a 6 blade the other day and welded a plate to the impeller to help with cavitation at high revs. On the street it cools the same. With no stat and driving its around 190-195. When its 80 ambient temp my hood temp gets to 120.

I shot the upper rad. hose and it reflects what the gauge shows. The lower hose is around 15 degrees cooler. The radiator is consistant with no hot spot on the front. I used an IR gun for this.

Total timing i still do not know. I shall try and find this out soon. I do not run any vacuum advance as when I did the EFI, the ford 5.0 TB does not have a ported vacuum port.

The cam I am running is: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-712221-08 with 1.6 rockers so the lift is not what is advertised.

I have never ran race fuel. So your saying race fuel will run cooler??

I can't really run a mechanical fan since the engine is offset to the pas. side by about 4 inches. This was to clear the front driveshaft from hitting the trans pan since I am using a tf727.

[MOPEkidD-3]

Originally Posted by Plato2k5

Radiator is a custom built from a shop here in MI. Two guys in the group I run with have this set up in their jeeps with v8 engines. There is a guy with an LT1, and another with a 5.3. Granted they are different engines and stock then what I run.

I changed the pump to a 6 blade the other day and welded a plate to the impeller to help with cavitation at high revs. On the street it cools the same. With no stat and driving its around 190-195. When its 80 ambient temp my hood temp gets to 120.

I shot the upper rad. hose and it reflects what the gauge shows. The lower hose is around 15 degrees cooler. The radiator is consistant with no hot spot on the front. I used an IR gun for this.

Total timing i still do not know. I shall try and find this out soon. I do not run any vacuum advance as when I did the EFI, the ford 5.0 TB does not have a ported vacuum port.

The cam I am running is: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-712221-08 with 1.6 rockers so the lift is not what is advertised.

I have never ran race fuel. So your saying race fuel will run cooler??

Yes race gas will run cooler but definitely make sure everything else is set up right first. If the total timing is retarded it may have helped the engine tolerate pump gas all this time but it will definitely make it run hotter as well. If the timing needs to be advanced you may run into pinging/detonation and if that happens you'll have no choice but to run race gas, at least if you want it to run cool thrashing at the dunes. You could retard the timing back down when you want to go on a cruise around town.

[Plato2k5]

Ok thanks! I would really love to control timing with my computer. In time I will do that. Would be nice!

I know with 87 I would get pining running it hard. I'll check the timing and report back. I'm going to be wrapping the headers in the morning.

[moper]

Given the radiator I'd like to see more of a drop between the top and bottom hoses. Are you certain there's nothing in there blocking flow?

[Plato2k5]

I gave up on the header wrap after messing with it for 2 hours and not getting anywhere. I run block huger style headers so they are a pain to wrap, if its even possible to make them work good.

Instead I just got the plasma cuter out and cut a lot of the inner fender out. I noticed an improvement with heat dissipation. It also took longer for the engine to heat up.

I'll shoot the upper and lower hose again tomorrow.

[moper]

Abother thing occured to me yesterday - what type thermostat do you have? I run the balanced (larger brass ones) type if there's going to be some rpms involved. The factory poppet style ones may be forced shut by high flow rates. The balanced ones cannot be and have a higher flow rate when open than a poppet style. Just a thought...

[Plato2k5]

hmmm... i ran a factory style poppet 180*. Rite now I don't have one in there.

Now here is another thing. What stat should I run? And also my fan is set to kick on at 195ish. Is that to high? Its a honda civic temp prob that goes in the water jacket on the intake.

[1wild&crazyguy]

id have it kick on at 185*, though 195* is around standard for production stuff..

[Plato2k5]

Ok thanks! I guess the fan isn't on while driving on the street so can't cool anymore then where it goes.

Now a thought: I run block huger headers to clear the framerails. I took a heat reading at the block and its around 220*F. Could the heat from behind the headers be soaking the block, causing the coolant inside to run hotter?

[Plato2k5]

so now it won't even cool at idle sitting in the driveway. While running down the road it goes 210, if you switch fan off it overheats. I flushed the system and put in straight water.

The ONLY thing I have done is cut out the fenders to vent the underhood heat. wtf!?

[75dartsport]

Sounds to me like you might have some air in the system. Withthe radiator being lower than the engine, this may be a problem.