?? Anybody Know Lifters 101 ??

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 06:41 PM

as a few of you know i have been having lifter issues. heres a little background. i put a new hydraulic cam and lifter kit in my 360. before i installed the new lifters , i manually pumped them up in a cup of oil. my first mistake was cheapin out with a summit brand cam kit, but too late now. anyways, after 50 miles and 30 hours of run time, i start to get a loud ticking. i stop everything. i pull the intake , covers and valve train. i start to pull lifters. in no specific order, i have,

10 that are rock hard
4 that i can plunge half way with my finger
2 that i can plunge all the down with no effort at all

the two im sure are collapsed.

what is the rule here? should these all be rock hard?
somewhat plungable?
these things are brand new

when i install my new ones, should they be installed dry ?
in all my days i have had ZERO problems with lifters

please any and comments and opinions on this subject, please school me .. thanks

Dart Sport 360 · 05-25-2012, 06:49 PM

I thought they were to be soaked in oil overnight so they fill up before installing them.

I don't know how soft or hard they should be but I'm interested in this cause if my car sits for along time.. like over the winter... when I turn it over to start it the thing clank-a-dee-clank-a-clank clank clank until it fires then it seems to be fine.... I wonder if that's normal for them to drain off and that clank is the valve lash until they pump up..... right? Or are my lifters getting tired? like I said it only does that if it sits for a month or more.

**Bad Sport** · 05-25-2012, 07:25 PM

If you bought them from Summit, the first thing I would do is call them and have them send you a new set. They will also send you a return label so you can put the old lifters in the box and send them back.

When I put my lifters in I put them in dry, I applied some assembly lube to the base and lightly smeared some on the sides. I didn't have any issues.

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 08:43 PM

i talked to them today and they are out of warranty, but i told them that the lifters were crap and that i had to tear my engine apart because of it. all they could do was offer me a discount. thats fine and dandy, but what i want to know is , are they supposed to all pump up hard as a rock ? i just tore apart a beautifully painted engine and i dont want to do it again especially if i am doing something wrong. im not a novice by any means, but this is something that i have NEVER had an issue with, so i guess ive just been lucky

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dart Sport 360

I thought they were to be soaked in oil overnight so they fill up before installing them.

I don't know how soft or hard they should be but I'm interested in this cause if my car sits for along time.. like over the winter... when I turn it over to start it the thing clank-a-dee-clank-a-clank clank clank until it fires then it seems to be fine.... I wonder if that's normal for them to drain off and that clank is the valve lash until they pump up..... right? Or are my lifters getting tired? like I said it only does that if it sits for a month or more.

i have always let them sit or pumped them up by hand. some are saying not to do this . i am suprised that there arent more responses to these questions

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 09:48 PM

anyone else have any info?

**4spdragtop** · 05-25-2012, 10:13 PM

I havent a lot of experience with lifters, but I thought with hyd you should soak them over night...I would "order" the same set of lifters from summit...put the "junk" ones in the new box and call them and say the "new" ones are junk! You will get them replaced or $$ back and have the new ones to do what you want with...just a thought...

sbmmustang · 05-25-2012, 10:25 PM

first thing is to check all the lobes on the cam.any of the lifters show wear or are they shiny?I have never soaked lifters in oil over night most of them say not to anymore.there are 2 companies that make lifters for everyone one so if you buy a cam from summit or comp cams they are the same.

**Bad Sport** · 05-25-2012, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 73AbodEE

i talked to them today and they are out of warranty, but i told them that the lifters were crap and that i had to tear my engine apart because of it. all they could do was offer me a discount. thats fine and dandy, but what i want to know is , are they supposed to all pump up hard as a rock ? i just tore apart a beautifully painted engine and i dont want to do it again especially if i am doing something wrong. im not a novice by any means, but this is something that i have NEVER had an issue with, so i guess ive just been lucky

Send Summit a link to your two threads on this and see what they do.

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4spdragtop

I havent a lot of experience with lifters, but I thought with hyd you should soak them over night...I would "order" the same set of lifters from summit...put the "junk" ones in the new box and call them and say the "new" ones are junk! You will get them replaced or $$ back and have the new ones to do what you want with...just a thought...

Steve, that is a great idea !! LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbmmustang

first thing is to check all the lobes on the cam.any of the lifters show wear or are they shiny?I have never soaked lifters in oil over night most of them say not to anymore.there are 2 companies that make lifters for everyone one so if you buy a cam from summit or comp cams they are the same.

the cam looks great i drained the oil today and ran a magnet through the entire drain pan and i did not pick up shred of metal and the oil looked great. ive noticed in my searches the a one lifter fits all type of deal seems to be whats happening

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badsport

Send Summit a link to your two threads on this and see what they do.

Bruce, i will do that for sure. maybe if i harrass them a little they will help me out LOL
i just realized the little scam is now in print ...dammit lol

demon seed · 05-25-2012, 11:38 PM

I always put the lifters in dry (paste on bore and face) on startup they should all pump up within 10 seconds and no you should not be able to push the piston down by hand once they're full of oil unless of course they've sitting for a long time. If you can either the check valve is screwed and not seating or the piston or bore are scored. The valve springs will put a lot more force on the lifter than you can and over time the lifter may bleed down, this is normal, but should pump right back up after starting the engine.

If you install the lifters full of oil and pumped up you run the risk of one or more of the valves being held open for a few minutes after engine startup. This will happen until the valve spring can force the lifter piston to collapse up until the valve reaches zero lash at the valve face to valve seat. All during this time the engine could run like shit, barking and farting back through the carb and hard to idle making the owner think he's got a valve timing or carb problem when in actual fact he just needed to wait 5-10 minutes to let things settle out.

**oldkimmer** · 05-25-2012, 11:42 PM

........Terry to the rescue......U should not be able to collapse any of ur lifters after they have been run in ur engine......no u do not pump them up b 4 install, just coat them with oil and put lube on the bottoms........u need valve springs ......measure the plungers 4 depth......get rid of the lash caps, u dont need them, find the problem 1st........kim.......

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demon seed

I always put the lifters in dry (paste on bore and face) on startup they should all pump up within 10 seconds and no you should not be able to push the piston down by hand once they're full of oil unless of course they've sitting for a long time. If you can either the check valve is screwed and not seating or the piston or bore are scored. The valve springs will put a lot more force on the lifter than you can and over time the lifter may bleed down, this is normal, but should pump right back up after starting the engine.

thank you DS, so i should not be able to just push down on the rockers and plunge these things when they are riding the base circle of the cam. thats what i thought. but when 30% of them will do just that, i was really beginning to wonder. that crap really had me sideways and second guessing everything i have learned over the years LOL

**73AbodEE** · 05-25-2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldkimmer

........Terry to the rescue......U should not be able to collapse any of ur lifters after they have been run in ur engine......no u do not pump them up b 4 install, just coat them with oil and put lube on the bottoms........u need valve springs ......measure the plungers 4 depth......get rid of the lash caps, u dont need them, find the problem 1st........kim.......

as Steve would say 10-4 ! kim, i found 2 bad, 4 on their way out, and im ordering some springs Asap Thanks again !

**moper** · 05-26-2012, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by demon seed

I always put the lifters in dry (paste on bore and face) on startup they should all pump up within 10 seconds and no you should not be able to push the piston down by hand once they're full of oil unless of course they've sitting for a long time. If you can either the check valve is screwed and not seating or the piston or bore are scored. The valve springs will put a lot more force on the lifter than you can and over time the lifter may bleed down, this is normal, but should pump right back up after starting the engine.

If you install the lifters full of oil and pumped up you run the risk of one or more of the valves being held open for a few minutes after engine startup. This will happen until the valve spring can force the lifter piston to collapse up until the valve reaches zero lash at the valve face to valve seat. All during this time the engine could run like shit, barking and farting back through the carb and hard to idle making the owner think he's got a valve timing or carb problem when in actual fact he just needed to wait 5-10 minutes to let things settle out.

x2

RedFish · 05-26-2012, 07:56 AM

Everyone does things there own way... I lay the lifters on their sides , oil hole up and cover them with oil. It takes a while for all the little bubbles to rise and some may need coaxing.
I have to believe that by the time I've rotated the engine enough to set and recheck the valve lash I have forced any excess oil out of the lifters. Never had a problem.
Your problem does sound like its related to lifter quality.

**TrailBeast** · 05-26-2012, 09:56 AM

I have always just lubed the contact surfaces first, put em in and assemble everything and pour a little oil over them right before putting the intake on.
Never had a problem doing it this way.
And no they shouldn't collapse at all by hand unless they are dry.

**73AbodEE** · 05-26-2012, 10:01 AM

thanks guys, i am going to put them in dry this time and pour a little oil in valleys . this is a completely factory set up minus the cam . i will be installing some new springs while im in there. hopefully i get some good lifters this time lol

**Bad Sport** · 05-26-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 73AbodEE

Bruce, i will do that for sure. maybe if i harrass them a little they will help me out LOL i just realized the little scam is now in print ...dammit lol

Just copy your OP and update the other thread and send that one only.

?? Anybody Know Lifters 101 ??

Small Block Tech