I have looked around on various threads about gearing and still have a few questions. I have 3 built up chunks with ratios of 3.55, 3.23, and 2.94 gears to swap around based on intended usage. Occasionally I take long highway trips (400) miles each way, this is what I have the 2.94 gears for. From other posts I've read I see others who like the 2.94 gears in their rides but have the torque multiplication of a converter with auto trans. I have 28" tires and my concern is riding clutch to get rolling, I do however have a 408 with gobs of low end torque so maybe it won't be an issue. Any thoughts or opinions are welcome. I just don't want to under gear the car and prematurely wear out the clutch.
2.94 gears with a four speed.
- Thread starter cpearce
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Drop AJ/FormS a PM - he's the numbers guru on that type of stuff.
roccodart440
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Have you tried them yet?
No I haven't, car is not quite finished. Will be ready for spring.
roccodart440
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takes about 30min to change a pumpkin in an 8.75.
Give them a whirl. You'll know right a way if you like it or not.
My 2 cents. Sell all 3 pumpkins and buy a GVOD. Put a set of 3.91's or 4.10's in it and enjoy.
Give them a whirl. You'll know right a way if you like it or not.
My 2 cents. Sell all 3 pumpkins and buy a GVOD. Put a set of 3.91's or 4.10's in it and enjoy.
Have you got a GVOD in your ride?
DionR
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I run a 2.71 rear gear right now (only option available when I put the car together) with an A833OD, 25.6" tall tires and a dual friction Centerforce clutch behind what amounts to a 2000 5.9 with a carburetor. Just to give you a complete picture.
My tires are shorter, but my rear gear is taller. I likely have a deeper first gear than you do (3.09 vs. 2.66?). My motor is a low end truck motor for the most part, but you have a stroked motor and likely make more low end torque than I do. I only reference the style of clutch because the dual friction Centerforce's are supposed to be easier to drive than some others.
In the end, my car drives great. Really please with how easy it moves out and drives. Could it be better? Oh yeah, no doubt. But for what it is, I don't see it being a real issue in drivability.
My tires are shorter, but my rear gear is taller. I likely have a deeper first gear than you do (3.09 vs. 2.66?). My motor is a low end truck motor for the most part, but you have a stroked motor and likely make more low end torque than I do. I only reference the style of clutch because the dual friction Centerforce's are supposed to be easier to drive than some others.
In the end, my car drives great. Really please with how easy it moves out and drives. Could it be better? Oh yeah, no doubt. But for what it is, I don't see it being a real issue in drivability.
Thank you for the response.
DrCharles
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A long time ago I converted a Valiant with 318-A904 and a 7-1/4" rear, 2.76 gears.
First I put in a 383 (Street Hemi grind cam) and a 4-speed (2.66 1st) while looking for a complete 8-3/4 with 3.23 sure-grip, so I was driving around for a while with the 2.76 and stock skinny tires. Other than smoking the tires at every light, that ratio was perfectly usable and I didn't feel like I was slipping the clutch. With relatively moderate RPM I would shift at 60+ in 1st, 85 in 2nd, 110 in 3rd and I never had the nerve or enough straightaway to find out what 4th would do.
First I put in a 383 (Street Hemi grind cam) and a 4-speed (2.66 1st) while looking for a complete 8-3/4 with 3.23 sure-grip, so I was driving around for a while with the 2.76 and stock skinny tires. Other than smoking the tires at every light, that ratio was perfectly usable and I didn't feel like I was slipping the clutch. With relatively moderate RPM I would shift at 60+ in 1st, 85 in 2nd, 110 in 3rd and I never had the nerve or enough straightaway to find out what 4th would do.
roccodart440
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Yes. I'd never own another car with an OD of some sort.
440, 727, GVOD, Dana 60, 4.56 gears, 28" tires.
2500RPM at 60MPH.
scatpackbee
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I've got a '69 Dart with a 340, four speed and 2.76 gears in a 8 3/4 rear.
I do feel like I have to ride the clutch slightly to get it going, but I feel it's still well worth having the 2.76 for comfortable highway cruising versus the chance of premature wear on the clutch.
I do feel like I have to ride the clutch slightly to get it going, but I feel it's still well worth having the 2.76 for comfortable highway cruising versus the chance of premature wear on the clutch.
I had 2.94's in my Duster with a 4 speed and 26" tall tires. The power range on the cam in my 340 is 2,200-6,400 though, and it didn't work very well for getting the car going from a stop. I ran it like that for a few months and switched to 3.55's, works much better and I can still do 70mph comfortably on the freeway. Wouldn't be ideal for long freeway runs, but I think it's more manageable than the 2.94's around town. With a smaller cam it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but 28" tires would make starting out with 2.94's even worse.
I've got a t-56 and 3.91's to swap in eventually, take care of the starts and the cruising rpm too.
I've got a t-56 and 3.91's to swap in eventually, take care of the starts and the cruising rpm too.
AJ/FormS
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This is a two edged sword.
between adequate starter gear and comfortable cruising rpm as to NVH, and long engine life.
Fortunately, I think you have the bases covered with any and all of them, with that 408.
As a city car, you will be starting off from a stop,a lot. So the slipping clutch is a valid concern.
As a hiway cruiser for 400 miles at a crack or about 6 hours,you want to be comfortable too, so again a valid concern.
The difference from the 2.94s to the 3.55s is about 21%, so that is quite a bit. About 500rpm at 65. With 27s say the 2.94s post 2374 and the 3.55s post 2866, and the 3.23s post 2608
Obviously the 2.94s are the way to go at the hi-way end.
At the other end we have then 2.94 x 2.66 =a 7.92 starter gear.This is barely adequate for a teener, barely doable for a stock 360, and anytime the engine is cammed up, this is a bit of a struggle. Manual trans SBMs typically like from about 9.5/1 to 11/1 depending on how hotted up they are.
You, on the otherhand, have a 408. So depending on how soon your torque comes up to 3602bbl-cam level, will depend on how tuff 7.92 is to get going with.
But there is another option; the 3.09 low gear that came in the early 273 boxes. This will get you a 2.94 x 3.09 =9.08 starter, and is 16% stronger. Now 9.08 is pretty close to 9.5(what I earlier called the minimum), and I'm willing to bet that your 408 will do very well with this starter-gear. So this seems like a good solution.
But lets look at some driving situations. In relaxed driving, I like to outshift each gear at no more than 2800. For you, the MPH equivalents would be;25,40,55 and77. That's pretty sweet for a 360, cuz in each case the mph is near to a common speed marker, and at 2800 the little 360 is making pretty good torque already. Your 408 will have no trouble with this situation.
Next consider a zero to 60mph blast. Well, this will be a tic under 6800,again near perfect for a hot 360 which may be done at 6000 and and is well on the way down the power-curve. I don't know about your 408, but the other two choices (the 3.23s and 3.55s) would force a shift for sure.So again you are in good shape. But if you have to shift at say 6400, this will be about 56mph, and the Rs will drop to a tic over 3900. So for a 360 that would be a struggle to pull the next 4 mph.For a 408 I cannot say.
Now let's look at track time; 6400 at the top of third with those same 27s is 125mph. With the right power to weight ratio, this is probably in the ballpark. Just don't expect much in the 60ft.
Still this is probably as nice a multi-purpose combo as you are gonna find. It is always easier to make a strong street/stripper with more cubes, and the 408 is about as good a combo-engine as it gets; with the possible exception of a well-thought out 383/400.
So for me, I would go with the 2.94s and 3.09low. If I needed a lil more get-go,lol, you have the chunks in about 10% increments.
If the hi way cruise is a once a year deal, I'd probably go 3.23s.
And if there is a bully in your neighborhood, the 3.55s
But, I gotta tell ya, I've never owned more than a hot 360, so I'm arm-chairing it here.
One thing I have had is double overdrive and 4.30s. this gave me a 2.38 final drive and allowed 85 = 2500rpm, and a 3.09 x 4.3 =13.28 starter gear. This was wild! With 325/50-15s the launch was baaaad!When it stuck
between adequate starter gear and comfortable cruising rpm as to NVH, and long engine life.
Fortunately, I think you have the bases covered with any and all of them, with that 408.
As a city car, you will be starting off from a stop,a lot. So the slipping clutch is a valid concern.
As a hiway cruiser for 400 miles at a crack or about 6 hours,you want to be comfortable too, so again a valid concern.
The difference from the 2.94s to the 3.55s is about 21%, so that is quite a bit. About 500rpm at 65. With 27s say the 2.94s post 2374 and the 3.55s post 2866, and the 3.23s post 2608
Obviously the 2.94s are the way to go at the hi-way end.
At the other end we have then 2.94 x 2.66 =a 7.92 starter gear.This is barely adequate for a teener, barely doable for a stock 360, and anytime the engine is cammed up, this is a bit of a struggle. Manual trans SBMs typically like from about 9.5/1 to 11/1 depending on how hotted up they are.
You, on the otherhand, have a 408. So depending on how soon your torque comes up to 3602bbl-cam level, will depend on how tuff 7.92 is to get going with.
But there is another option; the 3.09 low gear that came in the early 273 boxes. This will get you a 2.94 x 3.09 =9.08 starter, and is 16% stronger. Now 9.08 is pretty close to 9.5(what I earlier called the minimum), and I'm willing to bet that your 408 will do very well with this starter-gear. So this seems like a good solution.
But lets look at some driving situations. In relaxed driving, I like to outshift each gear at no more than 2800. For you, the MPH equivalents would be;25,40,55 and77. That's pretty sweet for a 360, cuz in each case the mph is near to a common speed marker, and at 2800 the little 360 is making pretty good torque already. Your 408 will have no trouble with this situation.
Next consider a zero to 60mph blast. Well, this will be a tic under 6800,again near perfect for a hot 360 which may be done at 6000 and and is well on the way down the power-curve. I don't know about your 408, but the other two choices (the 3.23s and 3.55s) would force a shift for sure.So again you are in good shape. But if you have to shift at say 6400, this will be about 56mph, and the Rs will drop to a tic over 3900. So for a 360 that would be a struggle to pull the next 4 mph.For a 408 I cannot say.
Now let's look at track time; 6400 at the top of third with those same 27s is 125mph. With the right power to weight ratio, this is probably in the ballpark. Just don't expect much in the 60ft.
Still this is probably as nice a multi-purpose combo as you are gonna find. It is always easier to make a strong street/stripper with more cubes, and the 408 is about as good a combo-engine as it gets; with the possible exception of a well-thought out 383/400.
So for me, I would go with the 2.94s and 3.09low. If I needed a lil more get-go,lol, you have the chunks in about 10% increments.
If the hi way cruise is a once a year deal, I'd probably go 3.23s.
And if there is a bully in your neighborhood, the 3.55s
But, I gotta tell ya, I've never owned more than a hot 360, so I'm arm-chairing it here.
One thing I have had is double overdrive and 4.30s. this gave me a 2.38 final drive and allowed 85 = 2500rpm, and a 3.09 x 4.3 =13.28 starter gear. This was wild! With 325/50-15s the launch was baaaad!When it stuck
Last edited:
Thanks AJ, I made a deal with Bud on the 3.09 box. I think this will work out very well.This is a two edged sword.
between adequate starter gear and comfortable cruising rpm as to NVH, and long engine life.
Fortunately, I think you have the bases covered with any and all of them, with that 408.
As a city car, you will be starting off from a stop,a lot. So the slipping clutch is a valid concern.
As a hiway cruiser for 400 miles at a crack or about 6 hours,you want to be comfortable too, so again a valid concern.
The difference from the 2.94s to the 3.55s is about 21%, so that is quite a bit. About 500rpm at 65. With 27s say the 2.94s post 2374 and the 3.55s post 2866, and the 3.23s post 2608
Obviously the 2.94s are the way to go at the hi-way end.
At the other end we have then 2.94 x 2.66 =a 7.92 starter gear.This is barely adequate for a teener, barely doable for a stock 360, and anytime the engine is cammed up, this is a bit of a struggle. Manual trans SBMs typically like from about 9.5/1 to 11/1 depending on how hotted up they are.
You, on the otherhand, have a 408. So depending on how soon your torque comes up to 3602bbl-cam level, will depend on how tuff 7.92 is to get going with.
But there is another option; the 3.09 low gear that came in the early 273 boxes. This will get you a 2.94 x 3.09 =9.08 starter, and is 16% stronger. Now 9.08 is pretty close to 9.5(what I earlier called the minimum), and I'm willing to bet that your 408 will do very well with this starter-gear. So this seems like a good solution.
But lets look at some driving situations. In relaxed driving, I like to outshift each gear at no more than 2800. For you, the MPH equivalents would be;25,40,55 and77. That's pretty sweet for a 360, cuz in each case the mph is near to a common speed marker, and at 2800 the little 360 is making pretty good torque already. Your 408 will have no trouble with this situation.
Next consider a zero to 60mph blast. Well, this will be a tic under 6800,again near perfect for a hot 360 which may be done at 6000 and and is well on the way down the power-curve. I don't know about your 408, but the other two choices (the 3.23s and 3.55s) would force a shift for sure.So again you are in good shape. But if you have to shift at say 6400, this will be about 56mph, and the Rs will drop to a tic over 3900. So for a 360 that would be a struggle to pull the next 4 mph.For a 408 I cannot say.
Now let's look at track time; 6400 at the top of third with those same 27s is 125mph. With the right power to weight ratio, this is probably in the ballpark. Just don't expect much in the 60ft.
Still this is probably as nice a multi-purpose combo as you are gonna find. It is always easier to make a strong street/stripper with more cubes, and the 408 is about as good a combo-engine as it gets; with the possible exception of a well-thought out 383/400.
So for me, I would go with the 2.94s and 3.09low. If I needed a lil more get-go,lol, you have the chunks in about 10% increments.
If the hi way cruise is a once a year deal, I'd probably go 3.23s.
And if there is a bully in your neighborhood, the 3.55s
But, I gotta tell ya, I've never owned more than a hot 360, so I'm arm-chairing it here.
One thing I have had is double overdrive and 4.30s. this gave me a 2.38 final drive and allowed 85 = 2500rpm, and a 3.09 x 4.3 =13.28 starter gear. This was wild! With 325/50-15s the launch was baaaad!When it stuck
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Hooray, let us know how you like it.
Will do, should help quite a bit as my current four speed is a 2.44 box close ratio. The wider ratio will benefit the 408's broad flat tourque curve.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Ohno,not the 2.44.
Oh this will be a huge improvement;26.6% That is the equivalent of 2.5 rear gears, say from 2.94s to 3.73s.
But;
you neglected or I forgot, to ask; Will your mainshaft accommodate those unbushed gears?I'm pretty sure it will, But I don't know it to be a fact.
Oh this will be a huge improvement;26.6% That is the equivalent of 2.5 rear gears, say from 2.94s to 3.73s.
But;
you neglected or I forgot, to ask; Will your mainshaft accommodate those unbushed gears?I'm pretty sure it will, But I don't know it to be a fact.
I have a regular case and tail housing sitting on shelf in garage, these are in addition to my complete 2.44 box. I thought all I had to do was buy a regular a833 short tail shaft main shaft and use my non trunion style tail housing with the 3.09 gear set. Is this correct? Ultimately I will have two complete transmissions, one 2.44 box and one 3.09 box.
And sorry, I meant 2.47 23 spline box non bushed not 2.44.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Oh the 2.47 box!
Both short shafts,you're good to go. A couple of hours work and you are in business.
Both short shafts,you're good to go. A couple of hours work and you are in business.
Sorry for confusion AJ, and thanks for steering me this way.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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My pleasure. I hope it works out for you.
BTW;As to that close-ratio box. I had one that I wanted to use one time, but it wasn't that good on the street. It wants 4.10s behind a warmed up 360, and as you may know, that's not so good for hi-way.I traded it straight up for an O/D box, if you can believe it.Then I purchased a GV and bolted that up for 7 useable gears; 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78-.55 (Splits in red). What a hoot split-shifting was that summer. And the next year, I about tried every chunk from 2.76 to 5.13, what a hoot. Some of those were just for fun, others for diagnostcs, and it turned out 3.55s were just right-go figure. This gave me a 10.97 starter and a 1.95 hiway gear. 1575rpm at 65 with 27s Say hello to 40mpgCanuckian/32USg. Yeah the cam was a tad smaller then and we cruised down to Minneapolis with traffic in the interstate doing 85plus@a tic under 2100. My son,who came along turned 20 that fall.......Ah the memories,
BTW;As to that close-ratio box. I had one that I wanted to use one time, but it wasn't that good on the street. It wants 4.10s behind a warmed up 360, and as you may know, that's not so good for hi-way.I traded it straight up for an O/D box, if you can believe it.Then I purchased a GV and bolted that up for 7 useable gears; 3.09-2.41-1.67-1.30-1.00-.78-.55 (Splits in red). What a hoot split-shifting was that summer. And the next year, I about tried every chunk from 2.76 to 5.13, what a hoot. Some of those were just for fun, others for diagnostcs, and it turned out 3.55s were just right-go figure. This gave me a 10.97 starter and a 1.95 hiway gear. 1575rpm at 65 with 27s Say hello to 40mpgCanuckian/32USg. Yeah the cam was a tad smaller then and we cruised down to Minneapolis with traffic in the interstate doing 85plus@a tic under 2100. My son,who came along turned 20 that fall.......Ah the memories,
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Hello AJ, an update for you. I got the car finished up in mid September last fall. After some tuning and minor adjustments we were out on the town with the 3.09 box in the car and the 3.55 rear chunk. Power is crazy, traction is a serious issue until top end of third gear. Took on a road trip of about 350KM and car drove like a dream, cruised on Trans Canada with rpm varying between 26-2800. In the upcoming few weeks I am going to swap in the 2.94 chunk as power is not an issue down low, traction is. The starter ratio will be close to the factory 2.66 box with 3.55 gears, and much better than the 2.47 box I had with the 3.55. I really don't think I will miss much low end with this combo. The best news is my car is best of both worlds, an animal when You get on it, and very civilized and well behaved when driven easy. With suspension and brake upgrades we performed it even drives really nicely. Looking forward to some good long road trips with it this season.
Mopar92
Well-Known Member
I do 70-100 mile trips occasionally. Fun factory, starting off, highway drive and all figured in... I always keep going back to my 3.23. I settled on 3.55’s for my warm 360 Dart. But to actually drive it I didn’t like the 2.94’s that well. It’s about feel, fun and not getting run over on the highway. 3.55’s aren’t bad but you are singing the motor in 75mph traffic.
I may do just that as I have a 3.23 chunk also. I'm going to try the 2.94 first.
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