727 in a 1966 dart wagon! HELP

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dart wagon

dart wagon

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How much body modifications do I have to install a 727 in my wagon? Is it just a pinch weld? Or will I have to smash my floor pan in? Thank for the help.
 
Just the pinch weld toward the front of the firewall. I have a 727 in my 65.
 
I have another option, it's a 904 out of an 88 van. I'm sure it's a lockup converter. Can I use it without the lockup converter, By using a stall converter? What about the electronics? Can they be deleted or just not used?
 
your going to be close where the linkage is too. you can install some 3/4 nuts as spacers between the K and the frame to get you an extra 1/2 inch if needed.
 
dart wagon said:
I have another option, it's a 904 out of an 88 van. I'm sure it's a lockup converter. Can I use it without the lockup converter, By using a stall converter? What about the electronics? Can they be deleted or just not used?
Click to expand...

Some of the front components are different for lockup/ non lockup. If the front shaft has a smooth area resembling a stick shift pilot it's lockup.
 
It's my understanding that the late 80s lock-ups were 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios. This is normally a Lo-Po ratio, in that the rpm drops between gears are pretty severe; well suited to their intended useage.
But not for a screamer engine.
However, in an early lightweight A, this could be an advantage with the right cam.
Adapting that A999 to non-electric shift is no big deal. And
the A999 has Heavy-Duty parts already in it And
Modest hi-stalls are available, lol, if you really need it.Remember the 2.74 low is 11.8% stronger out of the gate or about 1 rear gear ratio, making 2.94s feel like 3.29s,and 3.23s like 3.61s, etc.
And it weighs about 9000 pounds less than the 727,lol
For me this would be the go-to choice

Got pics of that wagon?
 
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the lock up trans was hydro pressure activated. No PCM required. The lock up trans had a smooth snout tip on the trans input, non lock ups had splines to the end.
 
AJ/FormS said:
The early ones were.
What year did the go electric?
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86. As far as it looks, the early ones (86) had an UNLOCKING 1 wire 12V servo that disables the hydraulic pressure activated lock up (opens a bleed valve) when a part throttle kickdown from a locked up condition on police cars occurs. That was example I saw.
 
pishta said:
86. As far as it looks, the early ones (86) had an UNLOCKING 1 wire 12V servo that disables the hydraulic pressure activated lock up (opens a bleed valve) when a part throttle kickdown from a locked up condition on police cars occurs. That was example I saw.
Click to expand...
Ok thx
I ran the early all-hydro behind a 318 as my winter engine a couple of times. I liked it a lot. I think it was an 80. I took the guts out of a slanty box and stuffed 'em in an sbm box.
 
Thanks for all the replys!!!
So with the 1988 904 I can install a toggle switch between the servo to engage the lockup in any gear right?
 
AJ/FormS said:
It's my understanding that the late 80s lock-ups were 2.74-1.54-1.00 ratios. This is normally a Lo-Po ratio, in that the rpm drops between gears are pretty severe; well suited to their intended useage.
But not for a screamer engine.
However, in an early lightweight A, this could be an advantage with the right cam.
Adapting that A999 to non-electric shift is no big deal. And
the A999 has Heavy-Duty parts already in it And
Modest hi-stalls are available, lol, if you really need it.Remember the 2.74 low is 11.8% stronger out of the gate or about 1 rear gear ratio, making 2.94s feel like 3.29s,and 3.23s like 3.61s, etc.
And it weighs about 9000 pounds less than the 727,lol
For me this would be the go-to choice

Got pics of that wagon?
Click to expand...
 
IMG_0029.JPG
 
The motor will be an Hughes 408, mild cam, 8.8 compression, s471 turbo. Getting a trans to live behind it might be a hard job!

IMG_0035.JPG
 
pishta said:
86. As far as it looks, the early ones (86) had an UNLOCKING 1 wire 12V servo that disables the hydraulic pressure activated lock up (opens a bleed valve) when a part throttle kickdown from a locked up condition on police cars occurs. That was example I saw.
Click to expand...

dart wagon said:
Thanks for all the replys!!!
So with the 1988 904 I can install a toggle switch between the servo to engage the lockup in any gear right?
Click to expand...
See above, but why would you want to lock it up that early

dart wagon said:
So is the 1988 904 actually an a999?
Click to expand...

Good question; I was believing that all lock-ups were 999s but recently was schooled the the lock-ups could be either;998 or 999.
In any case, I have seen the bellhouses cast with 998 and I think 999 on the upper drivers side with very large writing that cannot be seen unless the trans is out.Well I seem to remember seeing 1 or 2 nines from underneath using mirrors, for all the good that did,lol.
And finally you can grab the vin number off the RH panrail and look it up in a decoder book.

Ok but we have a situation now.
I'm wondering if 408,turbo, and 904 should be in the same combo. If the tires hook, she may be spitting out parts.I think I'd be leaning toward a souped up A904 or a 727.
Your combo really doesn't need or want the wide-ratio 998/999s and trying to find a lock-up TC to live is gonna be tough. Yeah, I imagine the 727 is the better idea
 
So, as I thought a 727 or a 904 would be better. With either one I'm going to do a full rebuild and add performance part to handle the power. I've heard that a 904 uses less power and is quite a bit lighter. Any truth to this? Transmissions have never been my thing, I'm more of a motor guy.
 
dart wagon said:
So, as I thought a 727 or a 904 would be better. With either one I'm going to do a full rebuild and add performance part to handle the power. I've heard that a 904 uses less power and is quite a bit lighter. Any truth to this? Transmissions have never been my thing, I'm more of a motor guy.
Click to expand...
Yes and yes; but again with the power level your working towards do you really want to worry about a small percentage difference, versus longevity?
But wait, what kindof back-end mods are you contemplating? Cuz if it don't hook well then does it really matter? But if you can make it stick, then it will matter very much.
You know when they blow up they can practically cut the car in half right? So you gotta run a blanket or something, and I doubt there's room in the tunnel for even the 904 and the blanket, So you might as well bite the bullet,open it up, and put the 727 in there. Then you can sleep at night.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Yes and yes; but again with the power level your working towards do you really want to worry about a small percentage difference, versus longevity?
But wait, what kindof back-end mods are you contemplating? Cuz if it don't hook well then does it really matter? But if you can make it stick, then it will matter very much.
You know when they blow up they can practically cut the car in half right? So you gotta run a blanket or something, and I doubt there's room in the tunnel for even the 904 and the blanket, So you might as well bite the bullet,open it up, and put the 727 in there. Then you can sleep at night.
Click to expand...
Very true. I've got an 8 3/4 with a 3.55 and a locker sitting and to go in. I'm getting ready to do a spring relocation to get enough tire under there to at least try to hook up. The good thing about the s471 is it's super laggy, so it's not super hard on parts.
 
Uh, I believe the lock up can be pressure activated only, not servo activated. So you can turn it OFF with a 12V signal, but not on. Its not an electric overdrive. with a turbo, youll want it to lock up early. no use slipping when your under boost. I'd save the $$ stroker for the NA class and run a 360 with a turbo, cheap and forgiving when you melt a piston, and itll give you plenty of power. The shorter stroke and the taller piston is supposed to be better with a turbo anyway, less piston rock and 'wasted angle' after the peak pressure event. I respect the build whatever you decide to do. Either way, that will be one "Draggin Waggin"!
 
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