Another clutch not completely disengaging thread

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ozmoparjoe

ozmoparjoe

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hey all, i have fitted a Powertrain Technology hydraulic bearing to my a833, pedal feels great, master cyl appears to be getting full travel (1.25" stroke), hyd bearing seems to be working ok but it still wont fully disengage the clutch, with pedal in the "up" position, the bearing is practically touching the pressure plate fingers (diaphragm type). I can force it into reverse, 3rd, and 4th gears, 1st and 2nd are a no go, when in gear though, releasing the pedal to make the car move feels like its all working fine, starts to move roughly about 1/3 travel off the floor, also i have bled the hell out of it, with someone working the pedal it bled well, and i also tried gravity bleed, but doing that, seems like its full of air! And i could bleed it for hours and the air bubbles just keep coming.
So basically i just need the hydraulic throwout bearing to travel just that little bit more to completely disengage the clutch, everything else seems to be ok, its all thats stopping me from driving my car!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.

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Have you tried power bleeding it? Basically it forces fluid through the bleeder valve, I had a Ford ranger with a hydraulic clutch, replaced every component and couldn't get a clutch pedal until I power bled it
They sell a tool specifically for that but I used a squeeze bottle with a tapered nozzle ( i used a gear lube bottle) full of fluid and a hose over the bleeder valve and squeezed the bottle while my son pumped the pedal and finally got a clutch pedal
That's the extent of my hydraulic clutch experience hope it helps
 
Here's what I have learned about bleeding clutches or anything, air goes up so trying to force the air down a hose from the master cyl never works, the air always comes back up the hose.
Here's what I do, first drain the fluid, then put your bleeder hose on the bottom of the slave and the master hose on top. Now make a quart squeeze bottle of brake fluid and a hose and hook it to the bleeder screw. Now open the bleeder and force the fluid from the bottom to the master cyl. This will take all the air with it to the top and out the master cyl reservoir. Tighten the bleeder and you should be good to go.
 
I have found the easiest way to bleed any hydraulic system is to push the fluid threw it.
With a helper crack the bleeder open, push down on the petal, close the bleeder.
Do this a couple of times and all the air should be out
 
Reverse the fittings , the bleeder needs to be on the top..

There is also no return spring to pull the rlse brg back, so the best it can do is "relax" so a small or no clearance is not uncommon. You will likely be able to push it back further manually, but it will likely return to the position it's in now.
 
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Well i have bled bled bled! Bled the MC, then bled the HYD bearing, theres no air bubbles, the bearing is only moving about 3/8", this Street Max is able to move a maximum of 3/4", i'm at a loss to know why it wont move more than this. Powertrain Technology recommend a 3/4 bore MC (which i have) and its stroke is 1.25", its as if it needs a longer stroke MC, but i haven't been able to find one and am not sure they even exist? Would a larger bore MC help do you think? Advice always appreciated as i have run out of ideas, thanks.

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I have yet to get my car running yet but i was curious why you have the shims on before the billet slider? Not that I’d think I matter but if I recall the instructions say to slide it in first and tighten the set screw then shim to specs. I won’t have my car running for a couple months but I will be following this thread.
 
CrOoKs said:
I have yet to get my car running yet but i was curious why you have the shims on before the billet slider? Not that I’d think I matter but if I recall the instructions say to slide it in first and tighten the set screw then shim to specs. I won’t have my car running for a couple months but I will be following this thread.
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I didn't get any instructions but going off all the threads i have read and images online they all had the shims first, i don't recall seeing the slider on first in any of the pics i have seen
 
Is it possible to return the bearing farther from the p/plate fingers, and thus be able to shim whole thing out a bit more. If not, - I often change brake M/C size for suitability, I wouldn't hesitate to try a bigger bore M/C, being very careful not to blow the end off the slave. jmo

EDIT, I'd check the Powertrain Technology website for proper instructions before doing much else..
 
inertia said:
Is it possible to return the bearing farther from the p/plate fingers, and thus be able to shim whole thing out a bit more. If not, - I often change brake M/C size for suitability, I wouldn't hesitate to try a bigger bore M/C, being very careful not to blow the end off the slave. jmo

EDIT, I'd check the website for proper instructions before doing much else..
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i believe the bearing is where it should be, if i shim it more it will ride on the p/plate fingers quite badly, with regards to the website, there is not much info on there apart from mentioning that a 3/4 bore MC is preferred.
Do you think i should try a 13/16 bore MC?
 
inertia said:
If you're sure everything is as it should be, a 13/16 or 7/8 would be my next move. jmo.
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Might try one more time tomorrow to play around with pedal ratios, not sure that would help, but if no luck ill buy another MC on Monday after work and try that.
 
the more i think about it, the more im starting to think its a pedal ratio problem, the pedal is stopping before it touches the floor
 
Well I have been at it all morning playing with pedal ratios and MC rod length adjustments and I just can't get the hydraulic TO bearing to move more than 3/8".
MC is stroking out and pedal isn't even hitting the floor.
Wilwood make another MC that is 3/4" bore with a 1.4" stroke (as opposed to my 1.25"), so I'm going to see if I can get one after work tomorrow and hopefully it will give me enough travel to disengage the clutch.
Just noticed they also make a 13/16" bore with a 1.4" stroke, so might give that a try.
 
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Hmmmm that sucks hopefully you get it. Did they never make any manual right hand drive cars from the factory?

Hey just put a left hand drive pedal assy in and let the pass shift lol
 
Update: I replaced my 3/4" bore 1.25" stroke MC with a new 3/4" bore 1.4" stroke MC and it made absolutely no difference whatsoever, played around with pedal ratios, MC rod adjustments and nothing.
So, what now, should i start looking at pressure plate? Clutch discs?
I have video of it operating but cant seem to work out how to upload.
Please help!
 
3/8” travel,thats it?
Releasing bleeder and pushing slave in will it go further?
If the slave only travels 3/8” there is something wrong with it.

I dont care for hyd clutches, as i have had my share of grief with them too.
Vacum pump sealed to master resevoir and just pulled vacum,it retracted slave and extracted all of the air.
Manual bleeding =gravity wont bleed it. Resevoir passes through to slave and master can remain aireated.
 
Found this online, it might help
 

Attachments

  • Street-MAX Bearing Travel.pdf
    97 KB · Views: 205
  • Street-MAX Bearing Travel.pdf
    97 KB · Views: 206
  • HRB's.pdf
    326.3 KB · Views: 264
ozmoparjoe said:
Update: I replaced my 3/4" bore 1.25" stroke MC with a new 3/4" bore 1.4" stroke MC and it made absolutely no difference whatsoever, played around with pedal ratios, MC rod adjustments and nothing.
So, what now, should i start looking at pressure plate? Clutch discs?
I have video of it operating but cant seem to work out how to upload.
Please help!
Click to expand...

Here's what I'd do. Pull the whole system out, and YES at 69 I know how much work that is. "Jig" it all up so you can manipulate the master, and "rig" a light spring setup so you can monitor / measure the T/O bearing movement. Make damn sure it's bled. Carefully measure the master travel so you know you are getting the full stroke.

There can only be so many answers, in no order:

1....There is air in the system
2...The master is too small in relation to the slave
3...The master is not getting fully stroked regardless of what you are thinking
4...You have a leak (doubtful)?
5....You have a hose "ballooning" and soaking up volume.

Regardless of all the fancy "pedal ratio" it comes down to one thing: Is the master getting fully stroked from top to bottom?
 
The PDF file I posted, if you can read it says a 3/4" bore moves the slave .45", less than a 1/2". How far does your pressure plate need to move to disconnect? You need to know this before you go much further. Who makes your clutch, contact them and ask.
 
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