Checking valve spring heights.

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RustyRatRod said:
Better a little loose, IMO than too tight.
Click to expand...

We differ there, it's okay.

With what i do id rather have a little more than a little less. He will be at about 125-130 psi pn the exhaust and only 100 maybe on the intake. Id shim the intake springs, leave the exhaust. The cam isnt fast, itll be better the not have springs eating into the heads from doing the boogaloo off the retainers at 5000 rpms. Besides... the springs will lose about 7 psi after some rum time ...as well as set more as they seat and wear, now imagine that 100 turning into the 90lb or less spring you just replaced. If it doesnt coil bind, run it. The tightest is 1.57? I bet you have more, are you putting 100 lbs against that retainer whem you measure?

Screenshot_20180121-195658.png
 
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IMO get rid of the rotators, there for trucks. They are heavy and it's just not what you want at higher RPM's.
You can get new stock exhaust valve and some stock retainers pretty cheap, if you don't have the cash for that some members probably have boxes of them for cheap.
Melling Valves V1307 probably cheaper on ebay.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
We differ there, it's okay.

With what i do id rather have a little more than a little less. He will be at about 125-130 psi pn the exhaust and only 100 maybe on the intake. Id shim the intake springs, leave the exhaust. The cam isnt fast, itll be better the not have springs eating into the heads from doing the boogaloo off the retainers at 5000 rpms. Besides... the springs will lose about 7 psi after some rum time ...as well as set more as they seat and wear, now imagine that 100 turning into the 90lb or less spring you just replaced. If it doesnt coil bind, run it. The tightest is 1.57? I bet you have more, are yoy putting 100 lbs against that retainer?

View attachment 1715132964
Click to expand...

Thank you for the information.

Thank you espically for the above graph. That has a TON of good info I was looking for, (such as the spring pressure at height info).

But I think coil bind will be a problem.

1.560 was our shortest height.

Coil bind is at 1.100

That puts us at .460

Our valve lift on the exhaust is .466.

That's no bueno.

I'm pretty happy with where the intake height came out. One .015 shim on one spring and they are all within spitting distance in my opinion.

Thank you again for all the info. That chart is great. Thanks. Eric
 
brian6pac said:
IMO get rid of the rotators, there for trucks. They are heavy and it's just not what you want at higher RPM's.
You can get new stock exhaust valve and some stock retainers pretty cheap, if you don't have the cash for that some members probably have boxes of them for cheap.
Melling Valves V1307 probably cheaper on ebay.
Click to expand...

Rotators are already gone.

We got some non rotator retainers from member trailbeast, thank you again sir, to replace the rotators.
 
And I think rusty was referring to valve guide clerance when he said he prefers it a little loose.

Or maybe he was talking about……

No, no, no, I'm pretty sure he was talking about valve guides. Lol
 
prorac1 said:
Thank you for the information.

Thank you espically for the above graph. That has a TON of good info I was looking for, (such as the spring pressure at height info).

But I think coil bind will be a problem.

1.560 was our shortest height.

Coil bind is at 1.100

That puts us at .460

Our valve lift on the exhaust is .466.

That's no bueno.

I'm pretty happy with where the intake height came out. One .015 shim on one spring and they are all within spitting distance in my opinion.

Thank you again for all the info. That chart is great. Thanks. Eric
Click to expand...

You're welcome.
Have you actually measured at the valve/retainer with it all mocked up?
I bet you don't have .466 at the valve.
The rocker geometry is always off , the rockers aren't ratio accurate/correct, they are less...and then the push rod moving outward due to the 59 degree lifter angle. Lol I bet you have the .050 before coil bind min necessary.
 
prorac1 said:
And I think rusty was referring to valve guide clerance when he said he prefers it a little loose.

Or maybe he was talking about……

No, no, no, I'm pretty sure he was talking about valve guides. Lol
Click to expand...

I was.
 
You will not have .466 at the valve. Usually you lose about .020" from the pushrod angle.

prorac1 said:
Thank you for the information.

Thank you espically for the above graph. That has a TON of good info I was looking for, (such as the spring pressure at height info).

But I think coil bind will be a problem.

1.560 was our shortest height.

Coil bind is at 1.100

That puts us at .460

Our valve lift on the exhaust is .466.

That's no bueno.

I'm pretty happy with where the intake height came out. One .015 shim on one spring and they are all within spitting distance in my opinion.

Thank you again for all the info. That chart is great. Thanks. Eric
Click to expand...
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
You're welcome.
Have you actually measured at the valve/retainer with it all mocked up?
I bet you don't have .466 at the valve.
The rocker geometry is always off , the rockers aren't ratio accurate/correct, they are less...and then the push rod moving outward due to the 59 degree lifter angle. Lol I bet you have the .050 before coil bind min necessary.
Click to expand...

Ok. So let's play lesser of two evils. Lol

I figured that through factory rocker arms and geometry we would lose some lift. But I wanted to play it safe.

Our exhaust valves lapped out ok, but we're pretty crusty looking.

So……

Run the exhaust the way it is, and check coil bind when all assembled?

Or……

Install exhaust valves for proper spring heights and hope they seal with a hand lap.

I love this game show. Lol

No, not really. Lol. This engines kicking our ***…but in a fun informative kinda way. Lol
 
You won't be anywhere near theoretical lift unless you use a 1.6 rocker.

You'll lose .015-.020 from bad pushrod angles and more from stock rockers being 1.45ish or less in almost every case. You might see .420 at the valve
 
prorac1 said:
Ok. So let's play lesser of two evils. Lol

I figured that through factory rocker arms and geometry we would lose some lift. But I wanted to play it safe.

Our exhaust valves lapped out ok, but we're pretty crusty looking.

So……

Run the exhaust the way it is, and check coil bind when all assembled?

Or……

Install exhaust valves for proper spring heights and hope they seal with a hand lap.

I love this game show. Lol

No, not really. Lol. This engines kicking our ***…but in a fun informative kinda way. Lol
Click to expand...


If they dont lap, then where are you at.

Mock it up with old valves, check it
 
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MOPAROFFICIAL said:
If they dont lap, rhwn where are you at.

Mock it up with old valves, check it
Click to expand...

I guess I could mock up the tightest exhaust valve, install the head without the gasket for now, and run it through a lift cycle?

Measure between the coils with a feeler guage?

How tight can I go and still be safe?

Thanks again. Eric L
 
Or just mock the head up on the block, with an exhaust rocker and pushrod, and run it through its paces?

With a dial indicator on the retainer to measure ACTUAL valve lift.

Yeah. I think that's a better idea than the feeler guage.

Yeah. I think I just posted a conversation that was happening in my head. Lol.
 
Now lets stuff a seal on there and what do we get for clearance? 2 grove set up, with a seat sunk worse than yours, seal in place , I get .411 for room or more so not enough room doing it this way .
100_1472.JPG
 
Max1196 said:
Now lets stuff a seal on there and what do we get for clearance? 2 grove set up, with a seat sunk worse than yours, seal in place , I get .411 for room or more so not enough room doing it this way .View attachment 1715133075
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Yep. That's the other thing I need to check. Seal/guide to retainer clerance.

From what I saw yesterday I think that will be our huckleberry.
 
We have a spring mic. But unfortunately if we don't have retainer to guide clerance, coil bind is a moot point
 
yellow rose said:
.060 minimum
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Yeah. I think we're screwed. Lol.

I had Dad take some "spitball" measurements with the caliper he had on hand, (I brought my good one home with me for use on the tranny rebuild going on in my garage).

He came up with .435 exhaust, .540 on the exhaust.

I'm going to take my caliper over there Wednesday and double check, but it looks like new valves are going to be a must.

That's hotrodding. Lol.

Thanks again everyone for all this help and info. It is greatly appreciated.

Thanks. Eric.
 
We used to just get out the grinder and shorten them for seal clearance ...but that was 20 yrs ago and with used 'make do' parts we had reasonable expectation of.. lol
May as well have the heads completely built and hard seat up grade.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
We used to just get out the grinder and shorten them for seal clearance ...but that was 20 yrs ago and with used 'make do' parts we had reasonable expectation of.. lol
May as well have the heads completely built and hard seat up grade.
Click to expand...

Trust me, the thought of getting out the angle grinder in the flap wheel crossed my mind. LOL.

I think for $37.50 we're going to roll the dice and hope we can hand lap the exhaust valves in good enough.

Keep your fingers crossed. LOL
 
prorac1 said:
Trust me, the thought of getting out the angle grinder in the flap wheel crossed my mind. LOL.

I think for $37.50 we're going to roll the dice and hope we can hand lap the exhaust valves in good enough.

Keep your fingers crossed. LOL
Click to expand...



You can buy a seal cutter and pilot for probably under 50.00 if you shop around. Then you can trim for positive seals and lower the guide at the same time. You can do it by hand.
 
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