HEI Stock dist shut down

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powerwaggin

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OK, so I've been doing great with a bone stock '73 318 electronic distributor wired to a GM HEI module on a heat sink using the correct coil for such an arrangement. Accidentally left ignition "on" for several days and now she's quit sparkin' altogether. For 10 points….what did I fry?
Got two set up this way so it's about time I learned to troubleshoot.
 
That is interesting because on mine, (unlike Pertronix or Mopar) if you leave the key on, the coil does not draw "much" current, IE it does not get warm

Check that you actually have power, and if so, I'd say you fried the HEI. Doubtful the dist. is the trouble
 
Four pin HEI modules are easily killed by low voltage, but the 8 pin modules don't have that problem.
It's not the length of time they are on but the low voltage as the battery dies that kills them.
 
Best advice, LOL, is "don't leave the key on." On a Mopar system you'd be replacing the coil, the ballast and the ECU, or at least one of 'em, likely.

On a side note, a cousin of mine, ZERO mechanical ability back then, had one of the early Jeeps with electronic ignition. He did NOT understand the difference between "accessory" and "run" on the switch. He had replaced SEVERAL (three?) ignition boxes, and asked me one day if I knew why. He did have kids so I asked,

"Anybody leaving the key on when it's parked?"

"Well I DO listen to the radio sometimes"

"Ya, but not with the key in run do ya?"

And, I get that "deer in the igntion switch" look. That was the end!!! of the bad!!! ECUs!!!
 
Which GM HEI module did you use? There are ~4 types (see megasquirt site).

Yep, 4 pin, 7 pin, 8 pin and that weird one that the ready to run distributors use.

That's all the one I know of anyway.
 
After more thought, check ground connection on HEI module.

That's a good thought.

I have noticed that some of the HEI modules will fire a spark when I disconnect them from the battery and some don't so I guess it's possible it took the coil out from being powered for a long time with no cooling time.

So the thought here was that apparently the module can be in the contact/no contact position just like a set of points.
I don't really see how an electronic part can do that, but it sure seems that way.
 
The signal generated at the pickup is generated by a change in the magnetic circuit. The pickup has a coil and a permanent magnet, the reluctor draws magnetic flux away. As the tooth nears the pickup, the flux becomes negative, when on the tooth the flux is constant, the voltage is zero, when pulling away it become positive, that is the trigger point. The trigger point threshold may vary with supply voltage, so when powered off the ignition may be triggered. The dip in voltage results a false trigger, it may not be consistent. Remember the HEI design is analog and originated in the mid 70's, it is far from perfect, but still an improvement over the mopar box. Some may not feel comfortable with that.
 
The signal generated at the pickup is generated by a change in the magnetic circuit. The pickup has a coil and a permanent magnet, the reluctor draws magnetic flux away. As the tooth nears the pickup, the flux becomes negative, when on the tooth the flux is constant, the voltage is zero, when pulling away it become positive, that is the trigger point. The trigger point threshold may vary with supply voltage, so when powered off the ignition may be triggered. The dip in voltage results a false trigger, it may not be consistent. Remember the HEI design is analog and originated in the mid 70's, it is far from perfect, but still an improvement over the mopar box. Some may not feel comfortable with that.

Ah I can see that, and should have seen it already duh. :D
The voltage drop can be mistaken for a trigger event signal just as disconnecting a coil causes the field to collapse and cause a spark.
Only different.
The difference being the coil would fire be because of the field collapse, and the HEI because the ECU told it to. :D

Thanks Kit
 
Spark is generated when a large transistor pulls the coil low to charge it, followed by the transistor opening, the coil field collapses and coil voltage increases from 12V to about 400V. The secondary coil windings step it up by about 100x, so it could peak to 40,000V. A circuit needs to be complete for current to flow, normally the + coil lead back to battery, then the coil primary, secondary (coil is auto transformer), plug gap and ground. There is also a capacitive path in transistor to ground, but less than point capacitor in point ignitions. Opening the coil +, will result in spark, if coil has current, and shock to uninsulated fingers. The ignition circuit is a series circuit at time of ignition. If one understands this, it becomes apparent why capacitor is placed from coil + to ground to reduce EMI.

The iffy part is if the coil is charged. There is a control circuit in the HEI, that closes the transistor to charge the coil based on the time of the last spark event to charge the coil near full just in time for next spark. That is one reason the ballast is not required. It takes a few milli seconds to charge the coil. There is also a hardware limit, it is used at lower RPM. Since RPM varies the time between sparks, the predictive control is busy, and also less than perfect, it adds additional time for varying RPM at low engine speeds, else variations would cause misfires because the time between sparks is very long compared to charge interval. Now days a micro controller makes better decisions based on better timing sensors, and coil current measurements to accurately control ignition.

Some may read this and think I am a know it all, I am not. I learn from experience, just enough to do things I enjoy doing, the best I can.
 
Spark is generated when a large transistor pulls the coil low to charge it, followed by the transistor opening, the coil field collapses and coil voltage increases from 12V to about 400V. The secondary coil windings step it up by about 100x, so it could peak to 40,000V. A circuit needs to be complete for current to flow, normally the + coil lead back to battery, then the coil primary, secondary (coil is auto transformer), plug gap and ground. There is also a capacitive path in transistor to ground, but less than point capacitor in point ignitions. Opening the coil +, will result in spark, if coil has current, and shock to uninsulated fingers. The ignition circuit is a series circuit at time of ignition. If one understands this, it becomes apparent why capacitor is placed from coil + to ground to reduce EMI.

The iffy part is if the coil is charged. There is a control circuit in the HEI, that closes the transistor to charge the coil based on the time of the last spark event to charge the coil near full just in time for next spark. That is one reason the ballast is not required. It takes a few milli seconds to charge the coil. There is also a hardware limit, it is used at lower RPM. Since RPM varies the time between sparks, the predictive control is busy, and also less than perfect, it adds additional time for varying RPM at low engine speeds, else variations would cause misfires because the time between sparks is very long compared to charge interval. Now days a micro controller makes better decisions based on better timing sensors, and coil current measurements to accurately control ignition.

Some may read this and think I am a know it all, I am not. I learn from experience, just enough to do things I enjoy doing, the best I can.

Well it would be pretty tough to build electronics if you didn't know these things now wouldn't it? :D
 
Very true, just part of my job. There is a fine line between a good engineer, and someone suffering OCD.
 
Very true, just part of my job. There is a fine line between a good engineer, and someone suffering OCD.

From my experience, the person that HAS OCD isn't the one that suffers from it. :D

My Wife has some OCD tendencies, so I know.
 
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