Hotrod Magazine Slant Six Build Up

-

Shogun1332

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
24
Reaction score
26
Location
Idaho
Not sure if anyone's posted it already, but I stumbled across this article

Slant Sickness! How To Add 77 HP To Your Mopar Slant Six! - Hot Rod Network

Pretty cool to see Hotrod Mag covering the good old Slant, but a little disappointing that the motor lost the head gasket before they could get a number on the Aussiespeed Long runner intake, was hoping to see numbers over 200 HP. Hopefully they'll revisit the project and finish that test

What are your guys' takes on what they did?
 
Not sure if anyone's posted it already, but I stumbled across this article

Slant Sickness! How To Add 77 HP To Your Mopar Slant Six! - Hot Rod Network

Pretty cool to see Hotrod Mag covering the good old Slant, but a little disappointing that the motor lost the head gasket before they could get a number on the Aussiespeed Long runner intake, was hoping to see numbers over 200 HP. Hopefully they'll revisit the project and finish that test

What are your guys' takes on what they did?
/6ness lives!!
 
Read this last night. I think I'm going to order a Tri-Power distributor. They have about a 1-2 week lead time at Performance Distributors according to the email I received from them this morning.
 
I'll grant you the electronic vacuum advance is potentially nifty, but other than that this distributor is massively overpriced Chinese dreck, physically not configured well for a Slant-6 (module location) and fraudulently described by its marketer -- the kind of part that tends to get extra-super-happy "reviews" in magazine articles, because magazines exist to put advertisements in front of receptive eyes.

As for the rest of the artlce: I'm still on page 1 and I've already found two basic errors of fact.

UPDATE: Five errors of fact.

UPDATE: Six.

UPDATE: Seven. They couldn't even be bothered to check and make sure they got the Dutra Duals website URL correct, which they very much did not—the nonexistent link they give goes nowhere. Real professional.
 
Last edited:
So, why don't you write the magazine and tell them that they screwed up?
 
What Dan is saying he read the article, and found several errors in it. Maybe alright to look at it tongue in cheek, but because it's endorsed by a national magazine should not be taken as gospel or at face value. Always investigate any article for its information and content for validity. Information on the same subject matter can be pretty far spread depending on where the info eminates from........ Not his circus, not his monkeys. Do your own research.
 
Dan, tell us what's wrong. I'm interested in some of those parts for my slant.
 
"Iron 225 blocks can safely take a 0.060-inch overbore"

…iron blocks can safely take a whole hell of a lot more than a 0.060" overbore, assuming you measure/check first (which is good policy no matter what overbore you're planning).

"but the integrally-cast iron bore liners limit the aluminum block to 0.020 inches over"

0.040" is the correct figure for the max overbore on the aluminum 225.

"Beware of cast-iron post-1976 cranks. They’re strong but have non-interchangeable narrower bearing surfaces which make 1977-up 225s a breed unto themselves."

The forged/cast crank split took place in the middle of 1976 production. It was not up-to-'76/post-'76.

"ARP offers specially designed stud kits designed to work with the softer aluminum/copper/silicon alloy block material needed to facilitate the 10,000psi injection-molded manufacturing process."

Sloppy writing. Words picked to fill space rather than inform. Just say ARP has head studs compatible with the aluminum engine and be done with it. The aluminum blocks were die-cast, not "injection-molded".

"The aluminum 225 accepts the same wide-bearing crank, rods, and bearings as any pre-1977 225"

Nope. Some 1976 225s will not accept those parts.

"With their flat tops, these cast pistons duplicate the stock 8.4:1 compression ratio. Safe for general street performance use, the lighter cast aluminum construction helps reduce reciprocating mass for improved efficiency and throttle response."

More babblety-babble to fill space rather than inform. The completely ordinary 0.020"-over stock-type pistons are lighter than...what? Lighter than cast iron pistons that were not used in any Slant-6 engine in the history of ever, because cast iron pistons went out of style with the Jitterbug and Prohibition?

"The Slant-Six head can safely withstand a 0.100 thousandths deck cut."

Sloppy writing with a dumb error: It's "100 thousandths" or "0.100", not "0.100 thousandths", which normal people pronounce "one ten-thousandth" or 0.0001.

"This reduces chamber volume from 54 to 44cc and bumps compression from 8.4 to 9.2:1 with stock flat-top pistons"

Don't bet money on it! There's a ton of variation in combustion chamber volume and SCR in production Slant-6 engines. There is no single amount of milling that will deliver a certain CC volume or compression ratio. Those might be the numbers they measured (if they bothered measuring) on their particular head, but that doesn't mean squat for any other head.

"At 59.2 pounds, the 225 head (bare)"

The particular casting they were using, maybe. There are multiple different interchangeable Slant-6 heads, that weigh differently. Also, there is nothing such as "the 225 head". Slant-6 head differences are by year, not by displacement.

"The pen points out the old-school one-piece Chrysler solid lifters which have been replaced (industry wide) by taller multi-piece solid (and hydraulic) lifters."

Umwhut? The factory used both straight-side and barbell-type solid lifters as standard equipment in the Slant-6, depending on production date. They are fully interchangeable in every way, including height. Mentioning hydraulic lifters here only adds confusion; there were hydro-lifter Slant-6s and a solid-lifter engine can be converted, but that's nothing to do with the engine they built and it takes more than throwing in a set of hydro lifters.

"Lash is set at 0.010-/ 0.020-inch cold."

Hot.

"The surprise was how the engine idled smoothly without any bogs or hiccups under load despite the carburetor’s miniscule 1.42 square-inch venturi area."

The real surprise was how clear the radio in the car sounded, without any static or station fade at highway speeds despite the red color and juicy deliciousness of the raspberries we bought at Safeway. Since we're talking about things that don't have anything to do with each other. Small carburetors are really good at providing smooth idle and lack of bog.

Taking a break from the text for a minute: those aren't Dutra Duals they installed, they're Dual Dutra Duals. The two setups are not alike. Since we're on the topic:

"Dutra Duals http://www.dutraduals.org"

Nope, no such website. Never has been.

"the new two-piece Dutra Dual cast-iron exhaust header"

Did somebody set the Wayback Machine to 1985 while I wasn't looking? Because Dutra Duals (including the front casting, two of which are used to create the Dual Dutra Duals setup) have been available since sometime in the mid-late '80s. They're keen and excellent, but they're not new.
 
i gave up on hotrod when every good tech was a over view ending with a website link,..so i quit paying for magazines and got enterweb hook up....lot better info out here than peterson publishing...palm cost fla!! circle track mag went same way as a few others i quit reading...
 
Dan, If I purchase the Dutra exhaust manifolds will I have that problem with the tab sticking out on the block and will my stock starter work with a heat shield? Any other issues with those exhaust manifolds. How about the Aussie speed intake with my stock 1974 225? Any issues there? Thanks in advance for all your knowledge.
 
TF360, I'm not sure this thread is the best place for buildup advice, but what are your plans for this engine? What kind of car is it going in, and how do you plan to drive it? Grocery-getting/commuting? Drag racing? Autocrossing? Something else? Picking parts for a buildup isn't the first step, it's the last step before getting out the credit card and wrenches. Once you know (in exact, specific detail) what you want the car to do and your budget (in money, time, and sweat) for this round of upgrades, then comes time for questions about specific parts.

(And please specify whether you have in mind Dutra Duals or Dual Dutra Duals)
 
What Dan is saying he read the article, and found several errors in it. Maybe alright to look at it tongue in cheek, but because it's endorsed by a national magazine should not be taken as gospel or at face value. Always investigate any article for its information and content for validity. Information on the same subject matter can be pretty far spread depending on where the info eminates from........ Not his circus, not his monkeys. Do your own research.
I agree, but the fact that Hot Rod has been around for how long, 50-60+ years now? They should have their crap together, and report the truth.
Oh wait, Hot Rod's a far left leaning Chevy only rag that reports 99% of Chevy crap and nothing else. So yeah, they wouldn't know $h!t about a Mopar.
I haven't looked at one in over 30 years now, and don't plan on it anytime soon.
 
Somewhat amusing is that Steve Magnante got the common deck height misconception fairly correct, 9.06"(G) vs 10.70"(RG), then proceeded to pooch half of the remainder
of the article!! Keep in mind, mags are primarily entertainment intended to sell copies, & this has carried with it some GREAT & USEFUL info & tech for the avg. enthusiast. The
unfortunate thing is that it also has drug along a lot of old wives tales, long since disproved "conventional wisdom", and suffers from misprint/factual/editorial errors & omissions
(intentional or not).
I appreciate Steve's enthusiasm for the Slanty, and He IS the only one to put together (with Doug Dutra's assistance & expertise) an all-aluminum /6 w/OE Mopar stuff. I
believe that one & the host vehicle is for sale(residing in OZ land now), but I would appreciate a little more accuracy & technical diligence even more......for the sake of those
who are getting their feet wet & actually looking to this for sound tech. He should have provided a link to .org if nothing else, ....
 
Great article. They certainly put a lot of time into it, probably collecting parts for years before running the tests. I recall another Hot Rod article ~10 yrs ago where they compared cast-iron and aluminum slants on the drag strip. Surprisingly, the cast-iron did as well, which they attributed to the stiffer block preventing cylinder distortion at max power. That is comforting for those who don't want to search for the elusive aluminum block head gaskets and such, or repeat the failures they suffered with their aluminum block.

I'm not reading 7 factual errors in SSD's analysis, just a few things that could have been cleaned up in editing or clarification added at the expense of brevity. Anybody who works with cars knows that a 1976 to 1977 change could be +/-6 months on the production line and thus better to pick 1975- engine parts to be safe. My biggest question is that it appears they used hydraulic lifters in their 1972 engine, based on the photo of valve timing components (unless some solid lifters had a side hole). Is that the real reason they had to buy shorter push-rods? Unlikely they would make that mistake.

If anyone wants to get peev'ed, watch the slant-six Duster episode on Hot Rod TV where the mechanic with bad teeth keeps grumbling that you can't do anything with the (snicker) leaning-tower-of-power and the owner is a fool to want to keep it stock. Contradicting himself? No, he really means toss the 6 for a V-8 (preferably SBC), which wasn't the title. Not everybody is stupid enough to drive fast and die young, just do what the customer wants, racin boy.
 
My biggest question is that it appears they used hydraulic lifters in their 1972 engine, based on the photo of valve timing components (unless some solid lifters had a side hole). Is that the real reason they had to buy shorter push-rods? Unlikely they would make that mistake.

Those are not hydraulic lifters. They use the hydraulic lifter body and pushrod seat, but the seat (if I recall correctly) sits on a "ledge", and cannot move. In effect a solid lifter. Just another issue of the "bean counters", trying to save money.
 
Those are not hydraulic lifters. They use the hydraulic lifter body and pushrod seat, but the seat (if I recall correctly) sits on a "ledge", and cannot move. In effect a solid lifter. Just another issue of the "bean counters", trying to save money.
mighta did it to save weight maybe?
 
Dan, the "mistakes" that you have pointed out in Steve Magnante's article don't seem terribly significant to me. Why don't you give the man a little credit for being the diehard Mopar fan that he is, rather than hitting him over the head with a 2X4? Steve has paid his dues. It's not like he's some newbie or something who doesn't know what he's talking about. Why would anybody want to continue to write Mopar articles if they are always going to face such nitpicking?
 
I have nothing at all against Steve M, who is a great guy and a very knowledgeable Slant-6 dude. The mess is in Hot Rod's lap. You don't have to be afraid they're going to quit writing articles; I'm sure they don't care what I think of them. LOL!

As for the errors not being very significant: OK, then, go build an engine with clearances and tolerances plus-minus a quarter inch. It's about right, y'know, a quarter inch isn't very significant. Let us know how it works out.
 
I don't see anywhere in the article that Magnante is advocating 1/4" clearances, or 1/4" anything else. I think you're being too emotionally defensive.
 
Well, doc, I think you're welcome to your opinion, no matter what I think of it.
redbeard.gif
 
So, here is my big question from that story.
They picked up 16 horsepower going from the stock exhaust manifold, to the cast duals.
But, at the same time, they eliminated the heat source from under the carb.
I know on a 400 horse BB, blocking the heat crossover is worth approximately 25 horsepower.
How much of that gain was due the manifolds and how much to cooling the intake charge?
 
Good question. I also was surprised that the Dutra-Duals gave minimal improvement, but they may only work as a system, so a fairer comparison might have been w/ the 4 bbl carb & shortie intake w/ and w/o the Dutras. The head gasket failed before they evaluated the long-runner Hurricane 4 bbl intake, and you can't buy the gasket for the alum engine at Autozone, so they stopped. My understanding is that long runners help most in mid-range (organ-pipe effect), so unlikely they would have done much at high rpm where max power occurs, though might have upp'ed max torque. Newish cars with variable intake manifolds have valves which switch from long runners to short as rpm increases. But, w/ a carburetor, the long runners give more time for the gas drops to vaporize and the Hurricane might also give more-even fuel distribution between cylinders.
 
-
Back
Top