MSD 6al issues - bypass ballast resistor

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adamfeber

adamfeber

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I installed an MSD 6al box (73 dart sport 340) but I have having issues getting the car to run - it will turn and turn and turn with no start. It started up briefly for a second after many attempts but did not run long.

In the instructions, it says use the old coil + to the msd red wire. This is how I rigged it but after doing some research, it appears the old coil + run from the ballast resistor so it may not be providing a constant 12v to the msd but it does pass the spark test.

I am assuming my issues it related to the power source running from the ballast resistor and needing to bypass that. Attached is a pic of my ballast resistor. What do I need to cut, splice, cap off to achieve the desired result - a steady switch 12v source to msd red wire?
 

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If you read the instruction it says to eliminate the ballast resistor. Doing so will eliminate one potential issues and even if it isn't it will help you in the long run.

Now... I've seen this happen and know from my own frustrating experience that you can experience your symptoms from having the switched power wire to the MSD hooked to a wire that has 12v whent he key is on but not in the start position.

Here's how you check it if you are by yourself...

turn the key to the on position. Go out under the hood and jump the starter soloniod. If it fires, bingo. Find a new wire that has 12V in both the start position and the on position.

If it doesn't, call MSD.
 
roccodart440 said:
If you read the instruction it says to eliminate the ballast resistor. Doing so will eliminate one potential issues and even if it isn't it will help you in the long run.
Click to expand...

What do I need to connect to eliminate the ballast resistor. There is currently two wires on the right connection and two wires on he left connection that have a jumper wire.

Ideally, once running good, I will unwrap the factory harness and completely eliminate the extra wiring from the old ignition box that is no longer used and ballast resistor, but first, I want to make sure the msd is working well.
 
blue ignition 1 wire is powered key in run position, brown ignition 2 is powered key in start position. crimp together and use this to feed the msd 12 volts switched ignition feed. also make sure polarity for the magnetic pickup is correct if using oem dizzy. if polarity is reversed it will be hard to start and run poorly.
 
I just used the switched power that went to the original hope box.hook it to the small red msd. Wire.i still have the ballast .don't think it does anything anymore.but i drive everyday....no problems...
 
This tablet puts whatever it wants for letters i meant MOPAR. Oem box not hope box.
 
Pull all those connectors off the ballast and let them hang there.
Use a test light and find the wire that has power with the ignition just in the run position.
Then find the wire that has power in the start position.

Note which ones they are and then cut all that wire harness back to the main harness.
Connect the two powered wires you found together, and then power your MSD off that.

This is exactly how we eliminate the ballast for my HEI kits that need a full 12 to the coil.
Hit me up if you need more or better explanations.

If you want to test things without making major changes to the wiring yet, just connect the terminals together like the picture shows and use your existing coil wire.
(The two top terminals together, and the two on the bottom together.)
 

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adamfeber said:
In the instructions, it says use the old coil + to the msd red wire. This is how I rigged it but after doing some research, ?
Click to expand...

There are TWO red wires.

The SMALL MSD red should hook to the coil + wire

The LARGE red must be hooked to a solid 12V, like the starter relay post

The fact is, bypassing the ballast SHOULD NOT MATTER because all the small red does is to power on the MSD.
 
67Dart273 said:
There are TWO red wires.

The SMALL MSD red should hook to the coil + wire

The LARGE red must be hooked to a solid 12V, like the starter relay post

The fact is, bypassing the ballast SHOULD NOT MATTER because all the small red does is to power on the MSD.
Click to expand...

This is how it is hooked up and is not running. I am going to take the advice from others above and try to bypass the ballast and see if that works.

If this does not work, the only thing left is the magnetic pickup in the distributor. I am running a mopar performance electronic distributor - is there any easy way to test the magnetic pick? With MSD distributors, you can simply use an ohm meter: http://www.msdignition.com/page.aspx?id=3304 - does the same apply for mopar performance distributors?
 
So i bypassed the resistor and the car started and ran OK but it is very difficult to start - doesn't just fire right up.

I have a mopar performance distributor which has a grey and orange wire for the magnetic pickup. MSD instructions say there should be a black and orange wire and black goes to MSD green and orange goes to MSD violet. I assumed the grey was black and hooked grey to green and orange to violet. I am wondering if it should be the other way around since I read in other forms that reverse polarity will make it hard to start and not run well.

Does anyone have experience with the mopar performance distributor and which wire is negative and which is positive? Out of grey and orange?
 
Pickup.................

Reversing the pickup wires will NOT cause a loss of spark, that is.............

Either way you hook it up should generate spark. The DIFFERENCE is that hooking it up backwards will move the spark timing in relation to the rotor, Google "rotor phasing"

Instead of going by wire colors, go by the old connector, see the diagram below...........

Hook whatever pickup wire went to the EXPOSED male terminal on the old connector to the MSD violet wire

CHECKING..........

Look in the dist. and inspect for rust, debri, and strike damage, and inspect/ wiggle the shaft for wear and slop

SET the reluctor gap with a brass feeler gauge to .008", that's inches, not metric. O'Reallys has them

If you still have the origininal distributor 2 wire connector suspect poor connections. Wiggle the connector in/out several times to scrub the terminals clean

With the dist. disconnected, connect your multimeter on low AC that's right AC volts. Crank the engine..........the dist should generate about 1V AC

====================

WHAT DO YOU HAVE hooked to the coil? You should NOT HAVE anything AT ALL hooked to the coil except the two MSD wires.

No tach, and no radio supression cap.

Below is the diagram you should be using

Go through this step by step.

Make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN, that the big black wire is grounded

Make ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the big red wire has solid 12V

Perform the tests as per destructions, and make sure the white is taped off.

Check with a meter or a light at the SMALL red. Check that you have 12V with the key in "run." Then check that you have 12V with the key in "start." USE THE KEY to crank the engine during this test.
 

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The car started but was hard to start and didn't run good.

67Dart273 said:
Instead of going by wire colors, go by the old connector, see the diagram below...........Hook whatever pickup wire went to the EXPOSED male terminal on the old connector to the MSD violet wire
Click to expand...

I think this is the issue. See attached image. Currently, the male connector from the old harness is hooked up to the MSD green, not violet.

I'll try this out tomorrow and see how it works. Thanks.

UPDATE: Actually, based on the diagram above, it is currently hooked up properly. The green is the old male connector which plugs into female end of the distributor plug (which is negative). So green is going to negative and violet is going to positive. Right?
 

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Sorry I cannot tell from your photo. The best thing I can say is look at the MSD diagram. The MSD violet is going to the bottom wire in the photo, what I'm calling the distributor male, not the male on the old ECU end of the connector

If it runs poorly that may be the issue

What this does is to offset the timing (spark) in relation to when the rotor in the cap reaches the wire tower contact
 
The car is running but does not start easy and just backfires through the carb. Here is a video: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t_uq7epQKs"]Tuning issues - YouTube[/ame]
 
check your plugs wires to see if you got them crossed...
 
Assuming it ran right before, this sounds like either timing or reversed pickup leads.
 
check your plugs wires to see if you got them crossed...
Click to expand...

I will double check the plug wires later today. This may be a stupid question but how do I determine which wire should be number 1 on the distributor cap to ensure that is correct? Set number 1 cylinder to TDC and the rotor should be pointing at 1? From there, the firing order is 18436572 in a clockwise order, right?

Is this a used or new MSD box?
Click to expand...

It is brand new
 
67Dart273 said:
There are TWO red wires.

The SMALL MSD red should hook to the coil + wire

The LARGE red must be hooked to a solid 12V, like the starter relay post

The fact is, bypassing the ballast SHOULD NOT MATTER because all the small red does is to power on the MSD.
Click to expand...

mine always worked fine with the ballast resister stiil in place
 
If you have a used dist. cap you can check rotor phase with a timing light "on the starter." You don't need to cut a fancy hole, you can just break the cap so you can see into it

https://www.google.com/search?num=4...otiona...0...1.1.32.hp..9.24.1817.OJLiXKKuwWc


I would DOUBLE check your firing order, and check resistance of the plug wires. You might have damaged a wire, and it's now "open."

If that doesn't show up anything reverse the pickup leads.
 
Since the car was running before I made this update and the only change is MSD box (tests fine and is wired correctly), coil (tests out fine), and wires - the only thing I can think of is wires. I will check the resistance of all the wires and ensure the firing order is correct.

Can someone help with this question:

How do I determine which wire should be number 1 on the distributor cap to ensure that is correct? Set number 1 cylinder to TDC and the rotor should be pointing at 1? From there, the firing order is 18436572 in a clockwise order, right?
 
Pull no1 plug

"Bump" engine around with your finger in the hole and feel for the start of compression. You may have to "go round" a couple of times if you are not familiar

As soon as you start to feel compression, start looking for "the mark" which should be coming up anytime.

Do NOT set the marks at TDC, but rather where it is that you want the timing, IE 10, 15 BTC, etc.

At this point, the rotor should just be right at the no1 plug tower.

Do you have a timing light?

The thing is, if the engine runs at all, the above should not be necessary. Just set it with a light.

THE OTHER THING is that if you have not moved the distributor, and if the engine was running OK before, then this DEFINATELY sounds like reversed pickup wires.
 
67Dart273 said:
THE OTHER THING is that if you have not moved the distributor, and if the engine was running OK before, then this DEFINATELY sounds like reversed pickup wires.
Click to expand...

You were right! Flipped the magnetic pickup wires and fired right up even though everything I found showed it was supposed to be hooked up right in the first place. You never know until you try. Thank you everyone for your help!

The car is now running stronger than ever after sitting for over 10 years:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYCJY3Ruipg"]1973 dodge dart sport 340 start up - YouTube[/ame]
 
Very good. Were you able to determine that it "likes" the same or opposite of the MSD diagram?
 
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