MSD problems

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highwaystar

highwaystar

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Hi Electric Gurus,
I just put an MSD 6AL, MSD distributor, on my 70 Dart. I have an aftermarket internal voltage regulator in my aftermarket Alternator. So I removed the factory under hood wire harness that went into the middle of the firewall bulkhead. I did not need the factory water temp, oil pressure gauge, alternator, ballast resistor, or coil hook-up, or do I. Since doing that I can not get the car to start. The MSD ignition box is putting power out. I am hooked into a constant 12V power up supply. I am getting intermittent spark to the #1 spark plug. The car just turns over, doesn't even try to start. Do I still need to have the wires going into the Factory dash Ammeter with the MSD? Shouldn't the MSD provide everything it needs to run the car, other than the switch at the steering column, and starter relay?

Looking for help, I am at wits end on this one...

It is a 70, I know there are differences in the 70 for column lock-outs, and linkage. Is there any kind of electrical differences in the ignition switch that would be causing me problems.

Thanks for any thoughts and help that can be given.
Highwaystar...
 
You should be able to rip out every single wire in the entire car and as long as you have cranking and power to the ignition components it will still run.
You missed something, or didn't tell us something.

Did you take into account that the MSD distributor might be at a different location as far as the rotor is concerned than the old one?
And change the plug wires in the cap to match?
Or move the drive gear to where it needed to be, so they match?

Any of this sound familiar?
Does the intermittent spark on number one happen about every 7th cylinder? :D
Sorry about the smart as in that last question, as I couldn't help myself.
 
I did move the distributor drive gear to align the rotor to #1 cylinder on compression stroke at 10* advance, and lined one of the 8 fingers with the MSD module. Does it make a difference where the module is in relation to the 8 fingers? should it be on in front of the rotor, or does that matter at all? I had the 12 Volt switched lead plugged into bulkhead that had 12 volt constant to try to get started, and then I moved it directly to the positive battery, and still nothing..

I saw in another thread about turning key on and bumping starter solenoid to bypass the key switch. I believe I done that already, but will try it again.

also saw just now in another thread to splice the blue and brown wire together that comes down from the steering column and run directly thru firewall to the small red wire for the 12 V switch power up connection. Is that the best connection for the 12 V switch?
 
Not sure what you mean by the 8 fingers unless you mean the vanes that the sensor see's (If that is the case it should be close enough to start, or at least act like it's going to)

You might want to remove the number 1 plug and crank the engine (bump it) till it blows your finger out of the plug hole.
Then bring it on up till you are on the zero degrees mark on the damper.
The rotor should be pointing right at the number one spark plug wire on the cap.

The distributor rotates clockwise so with the engine at TDC on number one, add the wires for cylinders 18436572 in that order, and moving clockwise around the distributor.

If you don't know how to bring it up to TDC on number one, then some Googling is in order.

The blue and brown wires are the original ignition supply wires that went to the ballast resistor.
One has volts when the key is in the start position, and the other wire has volts in the run position of the key.
These two wires connected together will be a good ignition system source. (some even use a relay to supply even better amps to the ignition and just use those two wires to activate the relay.) but this is usually not needed.

My HEI for example, runs right off those exact two wires connected together.

A timing light connected to the number one plug wire is a great quick indicator as to if you are close, even if the engine isn't running so you might try that just to get an idea if it's even close.
I doubt it is from the sounds of it.
 
Bring it around on compression stroke and stop at where you want initial timing. Now line up a 'finger' so it is exactly in line with the metal strip on the pickup. You will be within a couple degrees of what you want.
 
Still dont want to start? Unplug the lead to the distributor. Pull the coil wire from the cap. Hook coil wire to a spare spark plug and lay the plug on the motor. On bare metal. Make a short jumper wire to short out the lead you unplugged. Turn the ignition on and short out the lead from the box. Now when you remove the jumper wire from the lead you should see a healthy spark at the plug. A nice thick blue spark that you can also hear. If no spark or weak or yellow spark start checking connections. And grounds. And only two wires to the coil. Try swapping coils too. You will get it going.
 
highwaystar said:
I did move the distributor drive gear to align the rotor to #1 cylinder on compression stroke at 10* advance, and lined one of the 8 fingers with the MSD module. Does it make a difference where the module is in relation to the 8 fingers? should it be on in front of the rotor, or does that matter at all? I had the 12 Volt switched lead plugged into bulkhead that had 12 volt constant to try to get started, and then I moved it directly to the positive battery, and still nothing..

I saw in another thread about turning key on and bumping starter solenoid to bypass the key switch. I believe I done that already, but will try it again.

also saw just now in another thread to splice the blue and brown wire together that comes down from the steering column and run directly thru firewall to the small red wire for the 12 V switch power up connection. Is that the best connection for the 12 V switch?
Click to expand...

The middle bulkhead connector is the one with the blue and brown wire that supplies the signal to "turn on" the MSD unit. The brown wire is powered in the start position and the blue is powered in the run position, so when you tie them together you have constant power to the unit.
 
At the ignition switch you have a blue wire witch is ignition. You have a brown wire witch is hot in start position. Msd needs to see 12v in start and 12v in ignition. Wire the blue and brown together off ignition switch to msd.
 
A variable reluctance ignition triggers slightly after the trailing edge of the finger (tooth) passes center line of pickup pole. Mopar reluctor has narrow teeth, but after market often use FORD reluctor with wide teeth, so lined to center per post may be off more than a few degrees.
 
Yeep. there is plenty of gas. as I asked in original question. does the ammeter factory gauge need to get any juice at all to start and run the car, or is it just to power the factory gauges. I did pull the black negative wire off the factory ammeter gauge due to some splicing and hacking it had into other wires.
 
highwaystar said:
as I asked in original question. does the ammeter factory gauge need to get any juice at all to start and run the car, or is it just to power the factory gauges. I did pull the black negative wire off the factory ammeter gauge due to some splicing and hacking it had into other wires.
Click to expand...

If you have power to your ignition system the original stuff doesn't make one bit of difference.
On the other hand, if you are using your original blue/brown wires to power the ignition then the ammeter wires and associated wiring totally matters.

As I stated in a previous post "If you have power to your ignition and starting system you could rip all the wiring out of the entire car and it would still run".
 
hi I did pull the black negative wire off the factory ammeter gauge due to some splicing and hacking it had into other wires.[/QUOTE said:
the red and black wires going to the amp g are both hot the three wires that are spliced into the black wire are hot also one feeds the fuse box one feeds the headlight switch and the other goes to the ing switch. they are welded together by the factory. and no these wires do not power the inst panel. if im understanding right .
Click to expand...
 
Rather than cranking the car endlessly, I would pull the distributor out and spin it by hand while testing for spark. Best test is to remove the cap and run the coil HV output lead directly to a spark plug (tester or real plug, or even short it to gnd). Clamp a timing light over that plug wire and shine it at the reluctor wheel as you spin the distributor. You should see it flash on every tooth. If so, the MSD box is fine and you have other issues. For those trying this w/ points, ground the body of the distributor.

Seach "MAD Bypass" here. If you don't do so, your battery won't charge since you broke the path thru the ammeter, plus your Vreg might not control the alternator so you go "full field", i.e. too high output voltage which is really bad, especially w/ no sink into the battery.
 
well I was back at it today. I am getting spark to a plug. I just stuck an old plug onto #2 wire and turned it over. It was firing the plug. I noticed the MSD 6AL box red light flashes a few times and then goes out when I turn the key on. I believe the owner manual says it should stay lit at all times. I currently have the brown and blue wire to the 12V red MSD switch wire. I tried running the 12V switch directly to the positive terminal on battery and tried turning it over on the starter solenoid bypassing the switch, and still nothing.
 
Got it to fire, after talking to MSD tech he assured me that everything was fine when I was getting spark to the #1 plug wire. Instructed to use starting fluid. I dumped a **** load in, and it fired. Amazing that it would not catch with just gas, as much as I put down the carb. Could be a testament to how bad our gas is today...Pretty happy at this time. On to putting 3/8 fuel line on next..
 
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