MSD

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by Mopar Tim, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. Mopar Tim

    Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Hey guys, I think I have tracked my weird idle problem to the MSD Dist. I seems like advance is coming on too soon, and increasing idle speed, from 1200 to 1800 RPM. 20 degree advance initial, all in at 45 degree. At 1800 timing increases from initial to about 28 degree. MSD Dist, How to change to come in later. Thanks. No Vac. Just a little, it is right on the edge of being great. Maybe tune is the problem, but it starts and runs great, till it gets warm, about 180 Degree. Weird problem. Thoughts? Thanks All
     
  2. toolmanmike

    toolmanmike Pro Mod(erator) Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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    Just kinda thinking, stronger advance spring. (just one to start) Almost sounds like it's right on the edge of advance at idle rpm. When things get warmed and the oil gets thinner it picks up a hundred rpm and goes into manual advance. What does it idle at and can you slow it down a few hundred? Might be all it needs.
     
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    • Mopar Tim

      Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      That is what I think as well. But does not the MSD Dist. have another way to limit when centrifugal advance comes in? I am right near perfect on the tune, idle speed seems to be perfect, other then it increases like I posted. Cold idle is 1000, no choke. as it warms up, 1200. Gets hot,180 degree, goes up to 1800. Still runs great no matter the temp.
       
    • toolmanmike

      toolmanmike Pro Mod(erator) Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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      I'm not the guy to ask. I don't know much about MSD other than all I hear about MSD is a announcement over the loud speaker at the drag strip that someone needs a 6al box! LOL
       
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      • Mopar Tim

        Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        :rofl:
         
      • abodyjoe

        abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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        heavier spring should fix it... doubt you need full timing so early.
         
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        • Mopar Tim

          Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Thanks....
           
        • Mopar Tim

          Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Ordered the spring kit from summit. :thumbsup:
           
        • downsr

          downsr FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Set your idle at 1000 rpm when its hot, your spring kit will show you when advance starts on a graph for each set of springs. I use 1 heavy silver and 1 light silver springs with idle at 1000 rpm hot
           
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          • Mopar Tim

            Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Got spring kit yesterday, will install as @downsr suggesred^^^^
             
          • abodyjoe

            abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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            look at the instructions that came with the springs and see where that is gonna bring total in at.. it may or not be good for your combo. the springs go hand and hand with the bushings..

            any idea what bushing you are running?

            1 heavy silver and 1 light silver can bring total timing in anywhere between 3000 and 4000 RPM depending on what bushing you are running.


            https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/MSD-8464_frm28727.pdf

            msd.JPG
             
          • Mopar Tim

            Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Have not disassembled it yet, Thanks for advice..:thankyou:
             
          • downsr

            downsr FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            I am running a 18 degree bushing and setting the initial timing at 18 degrees which gives you a total of 36 degrees at 3000 rpm
             
          • Mopar Tim

            Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            I am initial at 20 degree and total at 40, so I will need some calculations...
             
          • Mopar Tim

            Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Well crap, it has the 2 heavy silver springs already in it. And the silver bushing. Any ideas?
             
          • Mopar Tim

            Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Leaving in the 2 heavy silver springs, turned the initial to 35 degree and installed the purple stop bushing.
             
          • B3RE

            B3RE B³ Racing Engines

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            You really shouldn't need 40+ degrees of total timing unless the CR is low with aluminum heads. You could very well need more initial advance. I have bushings that shorten the mechanical advance to 10 or 14 degrees. The best you can get with the MSD kit is 18.
             
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            • abodyjoe

              abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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              what the hell is this motor? why do you need 35* initial?

              most of my small block stuff i usually run 17-20 initial and about 35 total.. in by say 2400rpm
               
              Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
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              • toolmanmike

                toolmanmike Pro Mod(erator) Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                Cam timing not correct?
                 
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                • Mopar Tim

                  Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  It is just alot of engine to be running on the street. 408 stroked over 500 HP and Torque. The Cam shaft is a custom grind, I really need to change the converter. Too tight,
                   
                • Mopar Tim

                  Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Engine was built by a reputable builder and Dyno'd. Im sure the cam is installed correctly. The engine runs great, like said, I should swap the converter.
                  20170116_125443-jpg.jpg
                   
                  Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
                • Mopar Tim

                  Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  You sell those bushings?
                   
                • crackedback

                  crackedback FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  You have to have a spring set up that holds the weight static at idle. Once it starts bleeding in advance it usually runs a bit more rpm and keeps running away.

                  I'd run something at least 24* initial with a 10* bushing and see what happens. Should help with the idle running up.
                   
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                  • B3RE

                    B3RE B³ Racing Engines

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                    Yes, pm for details.
                     
                  • downsr

                    downsr FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    You are running to much total timing.I have a 416 500hp 570 ft lbs of torque with a custom camshaft.Total timing 36 runs and idles great.
                    I think you should set the timing like i said or the way cracked backed suggestion which i have also used and leave it alone and start looking elsewhere for your problem.I put a 2 brand 650 holley double pumpers on mine and the idle acted like your are describing.Ended up with a 670 holley with no more problems.Looking back the pcv system was affecting my idle circuit