MuuMuu101's 68 Dart, A Learning Process...

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goldduster318 said:
I have the same exhaust system except I have the long tube step headers and Dynomax stainless welded Ultra-Flos. I have a drone in about the same range, but I'd expect mine are actually louder since when I had side exit, I had the super turbos. Maybe I'm just so used to driving a flowmaster super 40 equipped I5 Colorado that it doesn't seem to loud.

My friend has a Chevelle that had one of those blue pumps on it, and it sounded a lot like that. They are just stupid loud. He eventually swapped to an HP series holley pump which is a lot quieter and so far has been more reliable. Given your experience thus far, my friend's experience, and also having seen fuel pumps die constantly on Roadkill, I can't say I regret my decision to do an internal pump. The problem is that you'd need a return system for a tanks inc or aeromotive setup. I have the Aeromotive Phantom in-tank system with the 340 lph pump and the thing is quiet. Light hum when you flip the key on and can't hear it when the engine runs. I think we talked about this on Woodward lol.
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The exhaust is a little louder than expected, but I still like it. We removed all of the OE sound deadening material in the car so that's part of the reason why everything is so loud. The nice thing about having 6 gears is that you can play with the tune of the engine. If I just happen to be cruising at 2000 RPM in 4th gear, I can just shift to 5th (1500 RPM) because the engine has so much torque it will just put right along.

Ideally, I would have went with a tanks inc or an aeromotive setup. I contemplated purchasing it, but at the end of the day, I didn't want to pay the money and prolong the build any further.
 
Well, I just talked with my friend and he said he'd trade me some sound deadening for a ride along in my car. Lol.
 
Turned out great! Congratulations sounds nice. Don't make it to quiet all that mechanical noise is much better than any stereo system! :D
 
4.7Light said:
Turned out great! Congratulations sounds nice. Don't make it to quiet all that mechanical noise is much better than any stereo system! :D
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I won't quiet it down too much. Just enough to quiet down the 10 dying Beluga whales... I mean electric fuel pump in the back. So far there's no stereo in the car.
 
Well, like I said before, today was definitely a learning process. Changed the oil on the Dart and took her out for a ride.

Dart Fall.jpg
 
MuuMuu101 said:
I won't quiet it down too much. Just enough to quiet down the 10 dying Beluga whales... I mean electric fuel pump in the back. So far there's no stereo in the car.
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Yeah I heard the pump on your video I dont blame ya there.
 
Took the Dart out for a cruise this morning as it was sunny and in the 60's. I'm starting to get a hang of the handling now. Car was running fine and wasn't hiccuping.

 
Nice.

I'm actually a bit surprised that the car sounded that crashy on the couple of pot holes you hit (maybe its the camera amplifying it?). Maybe those heim steering joints or something are louder than my factory type ones? IIRC we both have 1.06 T-bars and 18's.

I'd take a vid from in mine except at my house, this is what it looks like:
IMG_20161218_150130.jpg

And its 20 degrees. Supposed to be 2 tonight.
 
goldduster318 said:
Nice.

I'm actually a bit surprised that the car sounded that crashy on the couple of pot holes you hit (maybe its the camera amplifying it?). Maybe those heim steering joints or something are louder than my factory type ones? IIRC we both have 1.06 T-bars and 18's.

I'd take a vid from in mine except at my house, this is what it looks like:
View attachment 1714999188
And its 20 degrees. Supposed to be 2 tonight.
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The mic is an external mic I hooked up to my GoPro and routed it inside the car and hooked onto my polo shirt. So, what you hear is from the driver's seat. I also left the driver's window down and I'm quite amazed there was hardly any wind noise.

This car is super stiff. The trans mount and torsion bar bracket were beefed up when fabricated/modified. Not only that but the subframe connectors were triangulated with the torsion bar mount. Add in the 6-point cage and the body is tight. I have the Hotchkis TVS so almost everything has heims. What kind of LCA bushings are you using? Yep, we're both running 1.06" T-bars and 18's; however, I'm running a 255/40/18.

I suppose the weather is one of the small upsides about living in CA. Lol.
 
I have "proforged" brand poly LCA bushings, which I think are what come in the TVS. I basically have a TVS minus the inner/outer tie rod ends, I have RMS strut rods (but the design is similar), and I have ESPO 6-leaf rear springs with an offset shackle kit. I also have hotchkis' subframe connectors but no cage. So, a lot of similar stuff. My car should sound more crashy just due to it's 255,000+ miles and the worn out door hinges, etc that come with that.

I did think maybe you have the fox adjustable shocks and they might be on a stiffer setting, because I have the non-adjustable ones.

I'd deal with the winter because my house/yard would have been about $1M in CA instead of sub-300k. lol
 
goldduster318 said:
I have "proforged" brand poly LCA bushings, which I think are what come in the TVS. I basically have a TVS minus the inner/outer tie rod ends, I have RMS strut rods (but the design is similar), and I have ESPO 6-leaf rear springs with an offset shackle kit. I also have hotchkis' subframe connectors but no cage. So, a lot of similar stuff. My car should sound more crashy just due to it's 255,000+ miles and the worn out door hinges, etc that come with that.

I did think maybe you have the fox adjustable shocks and they might be on a stiffer setting, because I have the non-adjustable ones.

I'd deal with the winter because my house/yard would have been about $1M in CA instead of sub-300k. lol
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Who knows how many miles are on my Dart. Odometer says 44k or so, but I feel like it's flipped over sometime in its life. But it seems like our car are very similar. I forgot about the shocks. I have the adjustables on mine. Full stiff up front and halfway in the rear.

I was amazed at the housing prices out in your neck of the woods. I can't even afford a condo for the price of your house.
 
Well, I got tired with dealing with the headers hitting the power steering box (they're rubbing a tad) so I decided to try my hand with the door and trim piece. I followed a mopart's member's advice to drill the holes up until I got to the center clips (as I don't know where to get them). That advice was awesome, easy, and fairly straight forward.

In lieu of the plastic clips usually found on the inside of the door, I decided to stack up layers of double sided tape. I layed a layer of painter's tape across the door and piece of trim and then toward the center of the trim I stacked the double sided tape. That way, when I decided to go to clips, I can just pull the layers of painter's tape and continue drilling holes. But I checked it to make sure and there are so many layers of painter's tape that the trim doesn't rattle as the tape absorbs all the vibration.

I have to say, I am so glad that I got this piece of trim on. Not only do I feel complete that I have all of the trim on the car, but I felt somewhat accomplished when I haven't gotten much done with it.

Dart Trim Check.jpg


Dart Trim Installed.jpg


Dart Trim Tape.jpg
 
I think you can get the clips over at "King Bolt" Or the Fastener shop up on Arrow Hwy between Grand 7 Glendora ave... next to CIC ?????
Just a thought... :)
 
racerhog said:
I think you can get the clips over at "King Bolt" Or the Fastener shop up on Arrow Hwy between Grand 7 Glendora ave... next to CIC ?????
Just a thought... :)
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That's literally like 2 miles away. They have a car show every Thursday night off of Arrow Hwy and Grand near the In N Out.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
That's literally like 2 miles away. They have a car show every Thursday night off of Arrow Hwy and Grand near the In N Out.
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They sure do... Nice group of guys.. I dont make it over that way much anymore.... Just for work...lol
 
Well, I took the Dart to it's first autocross event. The course was nothing complex and had a lot of sweeping turns and large straight aways. The average runs were in the low 50 second range. There were good and bads to today.

Good:
-The commute to the autocross event (26 miles) and back was very trouble free. The car loved to cruise at 2000 rpm.
-The car is a blast to drive and there's so much potential in the car (or should I say myself).
-I had fun racing and hanging out with old friends.
-My number for the year is 408.
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Bad:
-The exhaust drone is absolutely, stupidly unbearable. The 30 min drive back home was not pleasant what so ever.
-The car is cold-blooded. It never really likes to start going until the water temps are about 150F. If I try driving the car before that, odds are it will probably stall.
-Out of 2 of my 4 runs, the car stalled on the first corner under light throttle causing me to roll off course and DNF. Very weird. It would take quite a bit of cranking to start it up again. I would exit the corner and bam, the car shut off. Water temps was 180F during my runs.
-I got last because the car stalled twice.
-The car got 6.7 mpg after my first fill up. I need to verify my odometer is accurate. Granted that was about 95% street driving.

Overall, I got in last place. My goal for the day was just to get a feel for the car and get a sub-60 second run which I accomplished. I wish the car hadn't stalled on me the other two runs, otherwise I think I could have got it down to 56 seconds with my skillset. It definitely felt like it could take more speeds in the corners; however, since I'm tire and experience limited, I decided not to push it.

1-15-2017 Cal Club Autocross.jpg


1-15-2017.PNG


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Are you still running a 750 double pumper on that engine? That was the last thing I saw for fuel with a quick search.

If you are, you're not going to have much luck with a carburetor and engine temps under 150. Just the nature of a carb. With a manual choke you can make it work better by adjusting it along as you go but with electrics it's hard to get them dialed in that well. Or maybe that's just me, I haven't been able to do it. I try not to take off until I'm up to at least 160, even there I have to do the heel-toe brake throttle and clutch dance to get it stopped and started until it gets closer to 180 and the thermostat opens. You think yours is cold blooded, my 340 doesn't seem really happy until it gets to 190-195.

Also, if you're running a carb it may have something to do with your stalling issue as well. The fuel in the bowls moves around, if it's stalling in corners you may need to raise the float level a smidge. Do you have an A/F? It would be easier to tell if you did, you'd see it leaning out in the corners. Since you've got an electric pump you shouldn't have a fuel pressure issue. Only other thing to consider would be the unbaffled fuel tank, how much fuel was in the tank when you ran the course? If it was under a 1/4 you might have been sloshing the fuel enough to starve it a bit.
 
72bluNblu said:
Are you still running a 750 double pumper on that engine? That was the last thing I saw for fuel with a quick search.

If you are, you're not going to have much luck with a carburetor and engine temps under 150. Just the nature of a carb. With a manual choke you can make it work better by adjusting it along as you go but with electrics it's hard to get them dialed in that well. Or maybe that's just me, I haven't been able to do it. I try not to take off until I'm up to at least 160, even there I have to do the heel-toe brake throttle and clutch dance to get it stopped and started until it gets closer to 180 and the thermostat opens. You think yours is cold blooded, my 340 doesn't seem really happy until it gets to 190-195.

Also, if you're running a carb it may have something to do with your stalling issue as well. The fuel in the bowls moves around, if it's stalling in corners you may need to raise the float level a smidge. Do you have an A/F? It would be easier to tell if you did, you'd see it leaning out in the corners. Since you've got an electric pump you shouldn't have a fuel pressure issue. Only other thing to consider would be the unbaffled fuel tank, how much fuel was in the tank when you ran the course? If it was under a 1/4 you might have been sloshing the fuel enough to starve it a bit.
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I am running a Holley 850 double pumper. After talking with some people, I figured I had a float problem. I do not have an A/F ratio gauge in my car. I filled up the tank prior to the event to prevent sloshing so I'm pretty sure it was not a fuel pressure or delivery issue.

The plan was to go to a Fitech EFI system in a couple of years. That plan may be moving forward to a couple of months.
 
Some issues but sounds like a good day you had, drive there and drive is always a good day. I wish I was closer to run mine there pop the hubcaps off and hope the whitewalls don't pop off the bead on the corners:).
I use a mechanical choke Carter to play with for those cold mornings like 72 says, it works for me.
 
Yeah, you are having the same issue I always had with cold driveability, I did get mine to be ok to be driven with the carb, however, it wasn't very responsive. Ultimately, smaller carbs have better driveability than larger ones so the 850 is probably hurting it. Of course, you don't have an exhaust crossover to warm the carb up either so that is a major hurt to it. This is exactly why I did the EFI swap. Now I can drive the exact same engine pretty much immediately.

I'll bet your stalling was either too high or two low of a float. If it's too high it may flood out and then be hard to start as well.
 
goldduster318 said:
Yeah, you are having the same issue I always had with cold driveability, I did get mine to be ok to be driven with the carb, however, it wasn't very responsive. Ultimately, smaller carbs have better driveability than larger ones so the 850 is probably hurting it. Of course, you don't have an exhaust crossover to warm the carb up either so that is a major hurt to it. This is exactly why I did the EFI swap. Now I can drive the exact same engine pretty much immediately.

I'll bet your stalling was either too high or two low of a float. If it's too high it may flood out and then be hard to start as well.
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It could be fuel climbing out of the rear vent and flooding the carb. Quick test... take off the air cleaner and run rubber hose from the front vent to the rear vent with a T at the highest point. If that clears the issue, then that is what it is. May be a symptom of too high float level in the rear.

Here is a picture of a "quick and dirty" hose for the vents: http://i.imgur.com/0TwEs5a.jpg

You may have to do something like this... a double pumper would need two kits. Fuel Level Control Kit

Just start researching "off road" modifications for the Holley.
 
MuuMuu101 said:
-The exhaust drone is absolutely, stupidly unbearable. The 30 min drive back home was not pleasant what so ever.
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Back when I first drove mine w/ a dual 3" system behind my 440 it was pretty bad even with large Dynomax super turbos, I ended up adding 18" long 3" glass pack mufflers as "resonators" between the rear axle and the tips at the rear valence.
 
goldduster318 said:
Yeah, you are having the same issue I always had with cold driveability, I did get mine to be ok to be driven with the carb, however, it wasn't very responsive. Ultimately, smaller carbs have better driveability than larger ones so the 850 is probably hurting it. Of course, you don't have an exhaust crossover to warm the carb up either so that is a major hurt to it. This is exactly why I did the EFI swap. Now I can drive the exact same engine pretty much immediately.

I'll bet your stalling was either too high or two low of a float. If it's too high it may flood out and then be hard to start as well.
Click to expand...

The engine builder was originally going to put a 750 on there as he thought should be sufficient; however, it didn't make the amount of power he wanted so he swapped carbs. The Fitech EFI is looking really good right now. It almost looks simple enough where I could do it. Debating on whether or not I'd want to go with the fuel command center and make it returnless or find a way to return it to the stock tank (as I have an electric fuel pump). I think if I sell my supercharger, I'll have enough money for the exhaust work and the EFI setup.
 
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