I have not. Most of my friends have FiTechs so I feel more comfortable with that option.
MuuMuu101's 68 Dart, A Learning Process...
- Thread starter MuuMuu101
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I have not. Most of my friends have FiTechs so I feel more comfortable with that option.
Glad you got it going after all these years. I recall early on when you uncle looked at the car and said it was junk, I also have to laugh at you guys out west with cold start problems, this is the crap we have to deal with, and my old truck will start first crank at 0 deg f.
It's not that he said it was junk. He said it wasn't worth investing money into. Lol. But since I told him many times I wasn't going to sell it, he came to accept it.
Environmental cold isn't the problem. The engine doesn't like operating until being warmed up. My car actually started better when it was 40-50F.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
I'd go with the Tanks, Inc tank or something like the aeromotive phantom like I have, to put the pump in the tank where it's quieter and also cooled by the fuel - where it will last longer, and always pick up the fuel. I'm not really a fan of the fuel command center because it seems busy and unnecessary (do you need two fuel pumps??). Also, having that much fuel in the engine compartment near the ends of the engine bay where it could be vulnerable in a crash is something to think about too.
1972orangebeast
Well-Known Member
Hey car looks awesome! I haven't been present of the fourms for a while. Looks like your having a few issues with carb and my first couple autox I did too. Im no expert but I would try and find a 750 dp, mechanical sec. Smaller carb might make less hp but on the autox course you can sacrifice some hp but better throttle response. Make sure you go through and tune the carb as best you can or have someone help you.
Second put some road race floats in your carb found herehttp://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_94_235&products_id=416&zenid=fd1901a54d1b1a0e686506d959701e88
Third I found that when I would race and slam on the brakes even with the floats, fuel would slosh forward and shoot out of the vent tube and flood carb and cause it to stall or die. Easy fix is to extend the tubes and connect with a rubber hose, then I drilled a couple of holes in the middle of the hose and pointed the holes up. I hope that makes sense, but this allows extra fuel to flow into the other bowl when you slam on the brakes. With these couple adjustments I haven't had an issue since then I have have ran my car hard at some autox and been great. Fuel injection definitely better but until then there you can make a carb work very well.
Also a oil temp gauge would help and make sure the oil dosent cool down too much in between runs. I have been at some events I make sure Im in the back of the line so I have time to get car warmed back up.
Second put some road race floats in your carb found herehttp://blp.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_94_235&products_id=416&zenid=fd1901a54d1b1a0e686506d959701e88
Third I found that when I would race and slam on the brakes even with the floats, fuel would slosh forward and shoot out of the vent tube and flood carb and cause it to stall or die. Easy fix is to extend the tubes and connect with a rubber hose, then I drilled a couple of holes in the middle of the hose and pointed the holes up. I hope that makes sense, but this allows extra fuel to flow into the other bowl when you slam on the brakes. With these couple adjustments I haven't had an issue since then I have have ran my car hard at some autox and been great. Fuel injection definitely better but until then there you can make a carb work very well.
Also a oil temp gauge would help and make sure the oil dosent cool down too much in between runs. I have been at some events I make sure Im in the back of the line so I have time to get car warmed back up.
Here's some more info on carb tuning for corners, it explains the differences in the floats and covers a few other mods that you can make
Carb Tuning for Cornering - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
Carb Tuning for Cornering - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine
Sorry, I barely got on today since my last response. I've been reading up and watching some videos on carb tuning. Before I go into an EFI swap, I may play with the carb tuning (another weekend). It seems my floats may be set to high. My fuel pressure is usually somewhere around 7 to 8 psi (need to verify) but Holley seems to recommend 6 psi. Thanks for the links! I'll take a look at them this week.
At the autocross we were mixed between single and multi-driver cars. I was at the start of the second round of single drivers so I'd wait till half of the multi-car drivers start before I went. I need to find a place for an oil temp gauge. Too many gauges. Lol.
I took the Dart to the exhaust shop today. He was impressed with the TTI setup, but it's super tight. There are small bends here and there making it difficult to fit a resonator anywhere. There are paper thin sections where the exhaust may hit on the torsion bar and idler arm areas. The only thing he could recommend was replace the 14" Dynomax Ultraflows for an 18" muffler. Thinking about it, it may work out. The longer muffler should dampen the exhaust (tad quieter) and reduce heat (in the muffler). He quoted me $450 for a set of Magnaflows and labor.
At the autocross we were mixed between single and multi-driver cars. I was at the start of the second round of single drivers so I'd wait till half of the multi-car drivers start before I went. I need to find a place for an oil temp gauge. Too many gauges. Lol.
I took the Dart to the exhaust shop today. He was impressed with the TTI setup, but it's super tight. There are small bends here and there making it difficult to fit a resonator anywhere. There are paper thin sections where the exhaust may hit on the torsion bar and idler arm areas. The only thing he could recommend was replace the 14" Dynomax Ultraflows for an 18" muffler. Thinking about it, it may work out. The longer muffler should dampen the exhaust (tad quieter) and reduce heat (in the muffler). He quoted me $450 for a set of Magnaflows and labor.
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
For the autocross just run the car for 5 or 10 minutes before the run so that the engine is good and warm, and break out your flat blade screw driver and and crank up the idle a couple of hundred or more rpm to keep it from stalling. Try this before you start swapping to efi.
My truck has a 750 on it and thats all it would take to keep it from stalling....and it sloshes the fuel around a lot harder in the carb than that nice flat handling Dart of yours.
My truck has a 750 on it and thats all it would take to keep it from stalling....and it sloshes the fuel around a lot harder in the carb than that nice flat handling Dart of yours.
Good to know! Thank you!
So, I went to the exhaust shop today to install some Magnaflow mufflers. They're 4" longer than the Dynomax and are straight through in design so it should flow a little better. After we got the exhaust installed, I went and drove around the area. Unfortunately, all of the major freeways around here are in limbo due to construction so I didn't get to drive it for very long at 70 mph. Maybe a mile or two. I did drive it quite a bit on the streets.
Off the bat, idle and the overall exhaust tone is quieter. It's not so in your face and aggressive as the Dynomax (good and bad). I also kind of figured this would happen, but the drone is only partially gone. Now, it's only from 1800-2200 RPM and 2000 RPM still sucks. So, from an exhaust point of view, the only thing that I can think of that would help is the installing long tube headers instead of shorties. So, next I'll probably install some sound deadening in the car.
I was smelling some gas toward the rear of the car and found out that the rubber seal on my gas cap is cracked so I need a new one. I was thinking about getting a locking gas cap this time. There's no leaks, so that's good.
Off the bat, idle and the overall exhaust tone is quieter. It's not so in your face and aggressive as the Dynomax (good and bad). I also kind of figured this would happen, but the drone is only partially gone. Now, it's only from 1800-2200 RPM and 2000 RPM still sucks. So, from an exhaust point of view, the only thing that I can think of that would help is the installing long tube headers instead of shorties. So, next I'll probably install some sound deadening in the car.
I was smelling some gas toward the rear of the car and found out that the rubber seal on my gas cap is cracked so I need a new one. I was thinking about getting a locking gas cap this time. There's no leaks, so that's good.
So, I had some time to address some of the fuel related issues this week. First off, I ordered that locking gas cap and installed it. The seal is astronomically more thick than my old one and the smell of gas is gone. So, hopefully that means a little less fuel spilled and some more mpgs.
Second, I've been looking at Youtube videos on how to address my cold start problem. The first issue I noticed was that my fuel pressure is generally around 7-8 psi. Holley carbs like to run around 6 psi. So, I took the air cleaner assembly off and checked my float levels. Turned the key twice with 2 second intervals (each time), removed the float plug, shook the car, and fuel was gushing out. I lowered the fuel pressure on the regulator down to 6-6.5 psi and reconducted the float check and all was good. Just a little was trickling down so I didn't readjust my float levels. We'll see how it performs.
While I had my air cleaner off, I noticed something. I always thought I had an electric choke. Apparently I have a mechanical choke. The problem is that the shop forgot to install a lever for my manual choke. So, on start up, the throttle blades are all the way open. Hence why I can't start this car with repeated results. So, I need to install a cable sometime soon.
I also took the car on the freeway and it seems with the adjusted fuel pressure the car is running a little better. Now that I got to play with the speed, the drone is still unbearable at 2000 RPM, but when I'm in 5th I'm cruising at 2500 RPM at 75 mph which isn't all that terrible of an experience. That being said, I'm still going to order some sound deadening to quiet the cabin a little bit from the road noise, electric fuel pump, and exhaust.
Second, I've been looking at Youtube videos on how to address my cold start problem. The first issue I noticed was that my fuel pressure is generally around 7-8 psi. Holley carbs like to run around 6 psi. So, I took the air cleaner assembly off and checked my float levels. Turned the key twice with 2 second intervals (each time), removed the float plug, shook the car, and fuel was gushing out. I lowered the fuel pressure on the regulator down to 6-6.5 psi and reconducted the float check and all was good. Just a little was trickling down so I didn't readjust my float levels. We'll see how it performs.
While I had my air cleaner off, I noticed something. I always thought I had an electric choke. Apparently I have a mechanical choke. The problem is that the shop forgot to install a lever for my manual choke. So, on start up, the throttle blades are all the way open. Hence why I can't start this car with repeated results. So, I need to install a cable sometime soon.
I also took the car on the freeway and it seems with the adjusted fuel pressure the car is running a little better. Now that I got to play with the speed, the drone is still unbearable at 2000 RPM, but when I'm in 5th I'm cruising at 2500 RPM at 75 mph which isn't all that terrible of an experience. That being said, I'm still going to order some sound deadening to quiet the cabin a little bit from the road noise, electric fuel pump, and exhaust.
So, I got to work on the Dart a little bit. First, I played with starting up the car (as this was a huge discussion on moparts - they don't think I need a choke). I had no luck with 1 pump or 2 pumps. The Dart started up the best when my foot was on the gas and I let off. The key was engaged the entire time when starting up. It did not start up if I backed out the key.
I also started Dynamatting the trunk and spent most of my afternoon climbing in and out of it today. I just placed a layer over where the electric fuel pump is mounted. I wanted to put some in the back seat area of the Dart; however, as I was going to remove the subwoofer material placed in lieu of the back seats I realized that it was glued down. So, I didn't really want to mess with that. While I was back there, I accidentally bumped into the subwoofer material back panel and realized, I've got a giant drum playing back here. Just tapping it would cause quite a bit of resonance and that could possibly be causing some of the noise when the car starts to drone. So, I went back into the trunk and added 2 layers of Dynamat behind there (1 layer of scraps). The panel is definitely a lot stiffer and tapping it doesn't create as much of a resonance. None of this did help with the electric fuel pump noise (as I expected it wouldn't). The entire floor really needs to be Dynamatted.
Unfortunately, when I finished all of this, it started to rain. So, we'll see if the driving experience is better tomorrow.
I also started Dynamatting the trunk and spent most of my afternoon climbing in and out of it today. I just placed a layer over where the electric fuel pump is mounted. I wanted to put some in the back seat area of the Dart; however, as I was going to remove the subwoofer material placed in lieu of the back seats I realized that it was glued down. So, I didn't really want to mess with that. While I was back there, I accidentally bumped into the subwoofer material back panel and realized, I've got a giant drum playing back here. Just tapping it would cause quite a bit of resonance and that could possibly be causing some of the noise when the car starts to drone. So, I went back into the trunk and added 2 layers of Dynamat behind there (1 layer of scraps). The panel is definitely a lot stiffer and tapping it doesn't create as much of a resonance. None of this did help with the electric fuel pump noise (as I expected it wouldn't). The entire floor really needs to be Dynamatted.
Unfortunately, when I finished all of this, it started to rain. So, we'll see if the driving experience is better tomorrow.
Not sure what they're saying over on moparts, but as a fellow resident of California and a guy that's been daily driving my mopars for the last 9 years, you still benefit from having a choke most of the time in the winter. No, it's not impossible to start the car without one, but if you want it to fire right up every time you need the choke. Otherwise you'll have to pedal it to life and babysit the idle 'til it's warmed up. I ran my Challenger for a winter without one. It worked, but it was a pain in the butt and it didn't do me or the engine any favors. I put a manual choke on it after that, piece of cake. With the electric choke on the 750 DP on my Duster it's 2 pumps and fire. If it's really cold I might have to repeat that once before it catches and idles, but that's usually all it takes.
Remember that these are fair weather cars for most folks, it doesn't matter how cold the winter is where they are if their car is hibernating in the garage for 6 months.
Remember that these are fair weather cars for most folks, it doesn't matter how cold the winter is where they are if their car is hibernating in the garage for 6 months.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
When I had the carb on mine, The choke would still help starting even at 80 degrees. It wouldn't stay on long, but that's not the point.
I still think that on your droning, it would help to remove the turndowns and go with straight tips that extend just past the bumper. Made a big difference on mine. It will stop any noise from drumming under the car.
I still think that on your droning, it would help to remove the turndowns and go with straight tips that extend just past the bumper. Made a big difference on mine. It will stop any noise from drumming under the car.
Drove the Dart today. It started up first try when I tried pushing the pedal to the floor and backing off. Of course, I had to babysit the car. What should the idle be at start-up? One thing I noticed is that idle seems pretty low on start up (~700-900 RPM). I thought it was supposed to be around 1200-1500 RPM.
I drove it around and with the lower fuel pressure the car seems a lot happier. The added Dynamat didn't help that much, but did help some. It's not as bad as it was before, but is still pretty bad. The car still resonates, but it's not deafening, just annoyingly loud.
I did fill up the Dart before coming home. 10 MPG!!! A lot better than 6.7 mpg and not too bad for having an autocross event mixed in. One problem I had was that the car did not want to start up for a min or two following the fill up. It definitely wanted less gas. I still debate whether it's me or the car, but I think I'm going to purchase a choke regardless. They're cheap and can easily be removed if it doesn't work.
I drove it around and with the lower fuel pressure the car seems a lot happier. The added Dynamat didn't help that much, but did help some. It's not as bad as it was before, but is still pretty bad. The car still resonates, but it's not deafening, just annoyingly loud.
I did fill up the Dart before coming home. 10 MPG!!! A lot better than 6.7 mpg and not too bad for having an autocross event mixed in. One problem I had was that the car did not want to start up for a min or two following the fill up. It definitely wanted less gas. I still debate whether it's me or the car, but I think I'm going to purchase a choke regardless. They're cheap and can easily be removed if it doesn't work.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
If you had a choke working, the idle would be higher after a cold start, there is a fast idle cam on the passenger side of the carb at the bottom of the choke linkage which kicks it up. In the past I always did about 1400 rpm and that seemed OK.
Does your car have an insulating carb gasket? If it doesn't, you may be getting some fuel boil over. That had happened to me before. If it's hard to start, try holding your foot to the floor while cranking. When the engine starts, just let off and it should straighten up.
Does your car have an insulating carb gasket? If it doesn't, you may be getting some fuel boil over. That had happened to me before. If it's hard to start, try holding your foot to the floor while cranking. When the engine starts, just let off and it should straighten up.
I installed a manual choke today. Spent last night making a bracket for it. It definitely makes it easier on start up. I can get the idle higher on start up now. I didn't get it to completely warm up as I couldn't take it for a drive today.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
Great! Are you going to get some pedal pads for the brake and clutch pedal? I just had mine out the other day so that really stuck out to me.
goldduster318
Overzealous Car Modifier
Knowing you live in CA where it doesn't really rain much....maybe not. It's a lot harder for your feet to slip when you have the pads. They're also sub-$20.
https://goo.gl/photos/tF3ar2C36ckEo54g8
https://goo.gl/photos/tF3ar2C36ckEo54g8
Got to drive the Dart today. It took awhile to figure out start up again. So, it seems it needs the choke all the way open on start up and then once the engine starts, the choke needs to be reduced immediately for the car to idle happy. The car still doesn't like to move unless water temp is at 150F, but what's nice about the manual choke is that it's warming up much faster now. When starting the car while it's warm, it likes a little bit of choke.
That being said, I've been working on function so much lately, I decided to do something cosmetic. So, I added a front spoiler. I have less than $50 into that. I don't think it looks too bad. I doubt it will do anything functionally.
That being said, I've been working on function so much lately, I decided to do something cosmetic. So, I added a front spoiler. I have less than $50 into that. I don't think it looks too bad. I doubt it will do anything functionally.
Yes sir.
Thought so!
Hard to beat really, they're practically generic. The OER versions usually cost under $40, they're easy to mount and the ABS plastic is flexible. I spray a coat of plasti-dip on mine to give them a nice matte appearance.
Hard to beat really, they're practically generic. The OER versions usually cost under $40, they're easy to mount and the ABS plastic is flexible. I spray a coat of plasti-dip on mine to give them a nice matte appearance.
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