MuuMuu101's 68 Dart, A Learning Process...

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So, I invited a friend to go autocrossing with me today. He has a '67 Dart that was his first car and has wanted to ride in it. He met at my house in his '06 WRX and we cruised on down to Autoclub Speedway for the NMCA Autocross. The car drove nicely on the freeway.

My first set of autocross runs were not great whatsoever. The course was turns left and right and I couldn't really balance the car too well. Too much power, not enough grip, and in desperate need of a much more experienced driver. Let's just say, I destroyed some cones... and then some. I was smoothest when I barely tapped the throttle, but was very slow. But even then, the lightest throttle input can make the car pretty squirly. Average runs were approximately in the 38 second range and my best for the day was about 43 seconds.

Well, after my first set of runs, I did a once over for the car. My friend who was passenger said he heard rubbing throughout the run. I was too focused on driving to pay attention. I noticed a scrape on my front spoiler and when I tried to rub it off, the spoiler started moving a lot. I took a look under the car and the spoiler was barely being held on in 2 out of 4 locations. So, I removed that and tossed it with a good chuckle. Then we took a look at my tires. Now, the outside of my tires have been previously scraped (as seen in the photos) because when I first put the wheels on, the fenders weren't (partially) rolled and I still had a support bracket in place when I put the car together before taking it to Hotchkis. So, I didn't think much of it. When I took a look at them today, there were little rubber hairs peeling off of the side of the tire meaning there inner fender lip or GT trim studs are still scraping into the tires. There was a pretty gnarly gash (as seen in the bottom-ish part of the photo) that didn't make me too happy/confident. When the shop did the car, they couldn't roll the fenders completely due to the GT trim.

So, my friend and I cleaned the tires up and decided to do the next set of runs before we decided to bail out early (I would have got 3-4 sets of 3 runs). The second set felt better. We recorded it with a cell phone. I was still having problems hearing the rub. I'd hear it here and there, but a new problem arose during my second run. The Dart was backfiring like crazy with an occasional banging noise. I told my friend to get out of the car and check everything. He looked under the car and in the engine compartment real quick and didn't really notice anything. We decide to do one more run to see if we can recreate the problem and this time the misfire was a lot worse. After the run we drove down the strip and we were getting this misfire at low RPM's/speed but it would slowly go away at higher RPM's/speed. We park the car and do another once over. As I was reving the car in Neutral, my friend notices one of the bolts on the header flange rotating in position... Lovely. We start jacking the car up to tighten all of the nuts and as I get under the car, they're all missing. Yep, the nuts fell off. So, I tightened the 1 (out of 3) nuts that stayed on as best as I could and we drove back home. No misfiring whatsoever and the car was a pleasant drive. We figured that the exhaust was getting into the intake causing the misfiring to happen.

So, tonight I've got to stop by Home Depot to collect some hardware and fix this car as best as I can before Big Willow on Thursday. The plan is to install new hardware and locking washers on the exhaust flange, find where the wheel is rubbing and attempt to cut the inner fender lip, and remove the GT trim (just for racing... will be installed before Friday). I don't think I'll be able to get new front tires by then; however, I'll just limit my runs on Thursday if necessary.

I did this event to shakedown the car before Big Willow. I'd rather something go wrong at sub-60 mph than 100+ mph.

Broken Splitter 1.jpg


Broken Splitter 2.jpg


Exhaust Flange.jpg


Gashed Tires.jpg


NMCA Autocross 4-1-17.jpg


Pan NMCA Autocross 4-1-17.jpg
 
what's the most used tool in a racers tool box?....safety wire pliers
 
I added a support strut from the lower radiator support to the bottom of the spoiler in the middle to keep it from flexing. I'm thinking I'll probably add one to each end (spoiler to valence) as well before I do anything much faster than freeway speeds.
 
I added a support strut from the lower radiator support to the bottom of the spoiler in the middle to keep it from flexing. I'm thinking I'll probably add one to each end (spoiler to valence) as well before I do anything much faster than freeway speeds.

I honestly didn't feel a difference. It's definitely a form over function modification.
 
I agree. To be aerodynamically significant with that size of spoiler you'd have to be talking about speeds above 70 to 80 mph at least. Below that it's pretty much just looks. Above that though and it might make a bit of a difference, at least enough of one that it would need some more support.

Did it hit the ground when you were braking into a corner?
 
I agree. To be aerodynamically significant with that size of spoiler you'd have to be talking about speeds above 70 to 80 mph at least. Below that it's pretty much just looks. Above that though and it might make a bit of a difference, at least enough of one that it would need some more support.

Did it hit the ground when you were braking into a corner?

I was driving at about 80+ mph when I was driving there. Traffic was a little more so I was around 60-70 mph on my way back. I still didn't notice anything, but I think I can make a better one out of Carbon/Kevlar using the ABS one as a mold. I just need a vacuum pump, the composite plies, and resin. I have all of the vacuum bagging at home.

And I used the spoiler as a cone plow...
 
Oh I don't think it would make a noticeable, behind the wheel kind of difference until you're over 100 mph. Not that it isn't doing anything below that, but it wouldn't be enough that you could tell from the seat.

A cone huh? That's the hazard of autoX! :D I killed one on a parking block not too long after I installed it. Good thing they're cheap! :p
 
Oh I don't think it would make a noticeable, behind the wheel kind of difference until you're over 100 mph. Not that it isn't doing anything below that, but it wouldn't be enough that you could tell from the seat.

Yeah, a lot of people had front spoilers today, but they were more boxy and closer to the ground. Again, probably not too helpful for autocross, but definitely helpful at higher speeds.

A cone huh? That's the hazard of autoX! :D I killed one on a parking block not too long after I installed it. Good thing they're cheap! :p

Did I say "A cone." It was definitely multiple cones. Lol.

As I was removing it in the pit area, a guy sees me working on my car and yells, "Is that a Camaro spoiler?" To which I respond, "It used to be a Camaro spoiler." Apparently he's been though 5 of them.
 
Some of the cuts are pretty deep but none of them are to the cords. I don't think the trim studs are the problem. They barely stick out and heck, the passenger side didn't even have a nut (part of the trim was popped out). I just think the car is rolling too much and machining the tire off of the fender lip. My shocks and sway bars are already as stiff as they'll get so maybe (in a year or so) I may need to bump up T-bars (currently 1.06"). That or get a wheel with a larger offset to move it in more. We'll see in the future. As for now, I banged the inner fender lip with a bfh. It didn't do too much. Maybe flare out the fender a little bit. The passenger side had a chunk of the inner fender lip missing where it was sharp at the break. I took a file to it and smoothed that out. So, hopefully that helps.

I also got some new locking washers and grade 8 bolts to replace the hardware that fell off the exhaust manifold.

As for now, I think that's as good as the Dart is going to get. I'm going to have to play Willow by ear and I don't think the race track will be as detrimental to the tires as autocross is.

Pictures of Driver side. Passenger side is similar but not as banged up at top.

Rubbing 1.jpg


Rubbing 2.jpg


Rubbing 3.jpg
 
Pull the chrome clear off the fender, it may give you enough clearance.
 
My best autocross pass, I think. I thought my friend's phone filmed in a higher resolution.

 
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Sorry, I've been lagging. It's been a really long couple of days leading up to Spring Fling and I am beat. Took the Dart through Angeles Crest Highway Wednesday night after a full day of work and school. Pretty fun but took it easy as I was driving an unknown, winding road at night. Plus I had tools in the back. Stayed at a motel that by far had the most uncomfortable sleeping arrangements ever. To think people actually steal pillows from this place.

Got to Willow Springs... Had the driver's meeting, novice school, and went out to race. I only did two run sessions as I didn't want to kill the car and I was machining tires. I spun off course twice at turn 3 during my first session. The second was almost a 3 car pile up but luckily my car rolled off course. That may have been filmed. We'll see if Tim posts it up in a couple of weeks or if it makes it in one of the magazines.

Overall the Dart did great. I did the lunch time drags which was fun. Almost lost to a Ram 3500 because I decided to do an 1/8 mile burnout to make things more interesting. The WOT on the Dart is awesome and she really moves down the straight. Once I hit about 4500 RPM the engine just takes things to a whole new level and kicks you in the butt into overdrive. Basically in 4th gear the car goes from 85... 90... 95... 120!!! I did drag race a Hellcat, he got me slightly off the line and I had to slowly ease into 1st and 2nd so I wouldn't spin the tires. He beat me by a car length or two.

Weight is with 1/4 tank of gas.

Pictures:

Thursday by muumuu101

Tire Machining.jpg


Weight - Quarter Tank No Driver.jpg


Weight - Quarter Tank With Driver.jpg


Willow Springs - Spring Fling 2017.jpg
 
Sorry, I kind of left this thread for dead. I've been super busy. Was on vacation for about a week and a half and then I just started another session of school again.

But I drove the Dart today for about 30 mins. I didn't push the car too much because there was traffic on the street. Before I created this thread, I actually used a BFH on the front fenders and the past couple times I've driven it I haven't seen swiss tires on the front. The rears are rubbing on the outer fender (although it didn't happen today). There seems to be a ledge on the inside of the quarter panel and it's catching on that. It's not rubbing the rolled lip. I took a BFH to it and hopefully that helps.

It seems like my short term fix is going to helper springs. My friend has a set that he used on his '72 Charger so that should help with reducing compression. Long-term fix would be offset shackles, that way I can remove my 5mm spacers and relieve some space. Also, I remembered that the 8 3/4 favors the passenger side so there's extra rub there. The offset shackles should center the 8 3/4 in between the wheel wells. So, we'll see. I hope I can fit 275's all around some day. Gotta keep massaging.
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I think I have a plan, it's just when to pull the trigger. I want a couple hard runs, possibly through the local hills, to feel out the fronts and rears to see if they're still rubbing after it's bfh treatment. But if I pawn off my MP shackles and buy the Dr Diff shackle, I'll have offset shackles that will accept the aftermarket leaf springs and retain my 1" drop. Not only that, but it will center my 8 3/4 as mine favors the passenger side about 0.25". I was going to also borrow a buddies helper springs he had on his '72 Charger to help reduce compression. On the fronts, while it would be in the shop, I was thinking about upgrading torsion bars to something thicker than the 1.06" bars I have right now.

At that point, I could just remove my rear +5mm spacers and run the car as is. The only problem is I wouldn't really pass tech at any racing events as the front tires are cut up and the rear tires had their sidewalls rubbed away. But I could run the tires as is on the streets and just have fun.

Luckily, when I go to the tire upgrade, I don't think I'll be paying a pretty penny in wheels. I found out Summit still offers the offset I have up front. So, I could just buy 2 wheels for less than $400 and I have all 4 corners matching. The only thing I'm worried about is the section width. The Michelin's on an 18 x 9" are 10.2" wide. The Bridgestone RE-71R's are 10.9" on an 18 x 9.5" wheel. So, I'm hoping by having a wheel that's .5" shorter it would bring the section width down to about 10.6-7". Looking at RimsnTires.com, with my +5mm spacer on the back, I'll be the exact same distance to the fender as I am now and I think I'll be able to clear the springs. The loss in 0.4" in tire height may help me.
 
One thing to think about the inner front lips on my factory 73 Duster fenders are at around 45 - 60 degrees, I believe that Chrysler did that to offset the wider disk brakes on the front.
I have a couple sets of fenders and they all have the same roll.
 
Well, I was going to go for a Sunday ride today in the Dart. As I was about to pull out of my garage, I noticed smoke coming out of the center console. Shut the car off, looked underneath the vehicle, and noticed trans fluid leaking onto the X-pipe from the tailshaft.

Looks like I'm going to have to take it in within the next couple of weeks as I don't have any time to work on it. Going to see if I can get offset shackles and possibly larger T-bars installed at the same time.
 
I picked up the car today. It drives a lot better now with the larger T-bars and offset shackles installed. The car never had a trans leak, it was just engine blow-by, so I need to look into that now.

I drove the car from the shop to my work and then to my gf's house (about 30 miles all on streets) and it seemed to do fine. Later on in the day, my gf and I went on a little joy ride and the Dart was great. My gf was ecstatic and loved it. It was really fun.

Well, a couple hours later I had to take on the 30 mile journey home (mostly freeway). When I started the car, I kind of had a feeling there was a problem. I could sort of hear a little clunking noise from the car as it was idling and every time I pushed the clutch pedal it went away, but I wasn't sure. I put the car in reverse and backed out and as I shifted into 1st and was moving forward, it sounded like a mystery bolt came loose and clunked around for a second, dropped out of the car, then the car stopped and shut off. Keep in mind, the car was still a little cold (135-150F water temp) and has shut off on me when trying to move the car in 1st if it's not too warm (I rushed the warm up a little as I was trying to get home as it was late). I immediately started the car back up again and the noise was gone. I didn't want to scare my gf, so I drove away, planning on pulling over in a nearby neighborhood in case something happened as I didn't want her to worry (I know, not the smartest idea).

Well, as I was driving, the car felt fine, until I got on the freeway. It could just be me since I haven't driven the car in 2 months, but it felt like the car was fighting itself to stay at speed (70-80 mph). My frame of reference could be out of wack because I just got a new daily driver last week and have been driving that a lot. But I also noticed that when I hit the exhaust drone RPM band and tried cruising at that speed that the vibration was a lot more than usual, but would smooth out significantly after I raised the engine speed outside of drone RPM. Lastly, what I thought was kind of weird, and I don't remember it doing this before, was that sometimes when I'd try to accelerate to pass a car (let's just say I'm at 2500 RPM in 5th gear) the RPM would rise to about 3000 (still in 5th) for a second or two, but the car would stay at the same speed, then the RPM would drop to about 2700 RPM and it would increase speed by a small amount. This also did sometimes occur when shifting from 5th to 6th and vice versa. It may have done it before, but who knows, my memory could be off.

Anyways, I ended up getting home safe, but now I'm all freaked out that I have a transmission problem and I'm tired of spending money on this car. I swear this car hates me. I'm pretty frustrated with it at this point and if this ends up being something big, I'm parking the car until next June (when I finish my masters) because I don't have the time, patience, or money anymore to work on it. But who knows, this could all just be me and my tiredness.

rsz_20170908_091630.jpg
 
I picked up the car today. It drives a lot better now with the larger T-bars and offset shackles installed. The car never had a trans leak, it was just engine blow-by, so I need to look into that now.

I drove the car from the shop to my work and then to my gf's house (about 30 miles all on streets) and it seemed to do fine. Later on in the day, my gf and I went on a little joy ride and the Dart was great. My gf was ecstatic and loved it. It was really fun.

Well, a couple hours later I had to take on the 30 mile journey home (mostly freeway). When I started the car, I kind of had a feeling there was a problem. I could sort of hear a little clunking noise from the car as it was idling and every time I pushed the clutch pedal it went away, but I wasn't sure. I put the car in reverse and backed out and as I shifted into 1st and was moving forward, it sounded like a mystery bolt came loose and clunked around for a second, dropped out of the car, then the car stopped and shut off. Keep in mind, the car was still a little cold (135-150F water temp) and has shut off on me when trying to move the car in 1st if it's not too warm (I rushed the warm up a little as I was trying to get home as it was late). I immediately started the car back up again and the noise was gone. I didn't want to scare my gf, so I drove away, planning on pulling over in a nearby neighborhood in case something happened as I didn't want her to worry (I know, not the smartest idea).

Well, as I was driving, the car felt fine, until I got on the freeway. It could just be me since I haven't driven the car in 2 months, but it felt like the car was fighting itself to stay at speed (70-80 mph). My frame of reference could be out of wack because I just got a new daily driver last week and have been driving that a lot. But I also noticed that when I hit the exhaust drone RPM band and tried cruising at that speed that the vibration was a lot more than usual, but would smooth out significantly after I raised the engine speed outside of drone RPM. Lastly, what I thought was kind of weird, and I don't remember it doing this before, was that sometimes when I'd try to accelerate to pass a car (let's just say I'm at 2500 RPM in 5th gear) the RPM would rise to about 3000 (still in 5th) for a second or two, but the car would stay at the same speed, then the RPM would drop to about 2700 RPM and it would increase speed by a small amount. This also did sometimes occur when shifting from 5th to 6th and vice versa. It may have done it before, but who knows, my memory could be off.

Anyways, I ended up getting home safe, but now I'm all freaked out that I have a transmission problem and I'm tired of spending money on this car. I swear this car hates me. I'm pretty frustrated with it at this point and if this ends up being something big, I'm parking the car until next June (when I finish my masters) because I don't have the time, patience, or money anymore to work on it. But who knows, this could all just be me and my tiredness.

View attachment 1715090187
Looking good man!
 
I wouldn't get too discouraged - it could be as simple as a loose bolt or two under the car for the vibration. Additionally, the throwout bearing may not be adjusted correctly and not have enough freeplay - though you would think a pro shop would have gotten that right, but I've been surprised before.

Best course of action is to look over the bottom of the car for missing bolts first and then go from there. I don't know if you have much to look through at the clutch on your setup, but I'd make sure the throw out bearing has some clearance to the clutch fingers.

Modified cars and old cars have teething problems - sometimes it takes a bit to get it all worked out.
 
Dart really looks great.
I agree with goldduster on everything he says. I would not drive tell you find where that bolt came from, what if it was a strap bolt for u-joint or something.

Hang in there.
 
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