proper fluid level on 727TF

Discussion in 'Transmission and Drivetrain Tech' started by mopar505, Apr 20, 2017 at 7:42 PM.

  1. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    i do not know what year? so after all systems are full, pan,torque converter, trans cooling and lines, where is correct level. remove the dipstick from the equation and refer to the pict. my thoughts are to the top of the mounting boss for the dip stick.

    IMG_1521.jpg
     
  2. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS FormulaS clone 367-3.55s 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78GV

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    If your filter has been dropped to the bottom of the pan, then you can run quite a bit lower than that.
    I'm not sure where the factory runs the level, but I'm guessing that when the fluid is fully warmed up it might be as high as you are thinking, but more probably a good 1/2 inch to an inch less. You don't want the spinning guts to be churning up the fluid.
    I have done oil changes on those where the fluid level was just a bit higher than the pan was deep. I have changed the O-ring on that tube and not lost any oil.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017 at 8:03 PM
  3. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    no filter drop. stock location. exactly what im trying to determine. the depth of pan in my mind should have no bearing on correct level when all is filled. lets say you have wrong dip stick tube or stick? like you said, we dont want guts churning up fluid to spew out dip stick housing. yet where is proper level?
     
  4. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS FormulaS clone 367-3.55s 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78GV

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    Why would you not drop the filter? At high rpm this set-up is about ready to suck air.That little tiny pump in the front, can move a whole lotta fluid.
    With the filter dropped, you can run the level lower than stock and avoid windage altogether.That is almost the whole point of running a deep pan.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017 at 9:28 PM
  5. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    factory put it out that way for years in stock location with out issues. i get ur point in droping the filter to avoid fluid run out. however not everyone has their foot in it thru the 1/4 so there has to be a stock minimum fluid level based on the aluminum case with stock height on filter?
     
  6. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS FormulaS clone 367-3.55s 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78GV

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    It's not fluid run-out, but air entrainment.
    However, with the; not a 1/4 miler comment, now I understand.
     
  7. oldkimmer

    oldkimmer Well-Known Member

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    U usually loose about a quart when u pull out the dipstick tube So what these guys are implying is that u can run ur fluid below the full level. So I ask this. If u run a deep oil pan on ur engine do u run it a couple of quarts low to avoid windage? Not likely in my opinion. Kim.
     
  8. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS FormulaS clone 367-3.55s 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78GV

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    I do
    5qts in a 7 qt pan. Between that and other tricks, car went 93 in the 1/8 at 3467# and 900ft elevation,with a 230*cam.
    This was not my idea. I got it from Smokey Yunich.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017 at 10:31 PM
  9. oldkimmer

    oldkimmer Well-Known Member

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    Aj yikes
     
  10. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS FormulaS clone 367-3.55s 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78GV

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    Hyup, yikes indeed. That was 2004.Engine survived to go another 80,000 or so miles, and still runs pretty good for her age.I think she has over 105,000 or so now.
     
  11. famous bob

    famous bob mopar misfit

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    Interesting conversation. I had to go to an flexable aftermarket dipstick, due to clearance problems. I added the fluid till I got what my trans builder said, then added two quarts for the deep pan, and confirmed it with him. The fluid level shows to be at the top of the marker on the dip stick cable. I `m wondering if I have too much in it >any ideas how to check and set it ? wondering about pulling the dipstick tube (flexable) and letting it drain to that level . all thots appreciated-------bob
     
  12. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    ok i see your point. i understand the whole windage thing in a motor/crankshaft. what parts in a trans would cause windage in the pan area?
     
  13. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    yes, thats a common practice...
     
  14. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    i just don't understand why someone would run a deep trans pan and not put the filter spacer on...
     
  15. oldkimmer

    oldkimmer Well-Known Member

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    Usually the idea of a deep pan is to be able to run more oil If ur running it low how is it any different with a stock pan running dry with ur high volume oil pump sucking oil. I get the windage angle Kim
     
  16. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    still gonna have the same qts in the system as stock. its just further away from anything that rotates.. racers have been doing that for many years. the pickup is still at the very bottom.. doubt you'll want to autocross like that but its been a drag racing trick for a long long time..
     
  17. mopar505

    mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    had know idea that should be done in conjunction with deep pan? my thought was more fluid dont run dry like oil pan? next time i got pan off a spacer is going in. with all this being said ,whats a safe fluid level on a stock filter location? even with gasket boss, or even with dipstick tube mounting boss?
     
  18. abodyjoe

    abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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    is your trans and converter filled already or are ya working from empty?
     
  19. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS FormulaS clone 367-3.55s 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78GV

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    And remember; oil must be at normal running temperature, engine at idle,tranny in Neutral, and chassis on a flat level surface.
    You may have to wipe the stick several times to get a repeatable reading. I bend the very tip of the dipper down a bit away from the side of the tube;about an inch to an inch and a quarter from the end.
     
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    • RustyRatRod

      RustyRatRod Limp Member Technical Editor

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      You cannot "remove the dipstick from the equation" because that's its job. The dipstick will read the SAME even if you have a pan a mile deep.

      With stock transmissions my rule of thumb is fill with two gallons, start and run through the gears and start checking. A deep pan might hold a quart or two over that two gallon starting point.

      You're making this way too difficult.
       
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      • famous bob

        famous bob mopar misfit

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        more oil, cooler oil, less chance of running dry w/ dropped pick/up. no rotating parts running in fluid anyway, unless overfilled.
         
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        • mopar505

          mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          i CAN remove the dipstick from the equation as i dont know if its the correct one. its a conversation,feel free to see your way out of it if its TOO DIFFICULT for you. not trying to be smart. trying to get smarter.
           
        • mopar505

          mopar505 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          i just swapped out the torque converter so the pan is dry.
           
        • d55dave

          d55dave Well-Known Member

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          The fluid level when not running is irrelevant. As was said it must be idling and in nuetral to ensure the coverter, cooler etc are full. Personally with a deep pan and corresponding spacer I am running at the bottom end (add) on the stock dilstick. This ensures no windage and aeration of the fluid, a well submerged pick up, and lots of fluid to avoid overheating . It sounds to me like you need to drop the pan, insert a stock dipstick and look from below at where the level lines on the stick are, then put in your aftermarket stick and mark it to match.
           
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          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod Limp Member Technical Editor

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            Ok bud. Just trying to get you to see the right point. Fuck your piece of shit. I hope it burns to the ground.