Rarity?

Discussion in 'Slant 6 Engines' started by Bitchs Brew, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Bitchs Brew

    Bitchs Brew Active Member

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    While looking for parts for my 68, being told that a late 68 with a slant 6 and manual drums is a bit of an odd duck. The premise being that most cars were 8's and with power brakes. Is this correct?
     
  2. d55dave

    d55dave Well-Known Member

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    Dart, barracuda, valiant? Other options that make it rare?

    In my opinion, no. There were tens of thousands of these cars built as low dollar grocery getters with 6 cylinders. Most of the A bodies I have owned and seen from that era were manual drum brake cars.
     
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    • Bitchs Brew

      Bitchs Brew Active Member

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      1968 Barracuda Notch , the chrome grille option and split bench with arm rest. Pretty basic car. Thank you, that is what I had thought :)
       
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      • 68383GTS

        68383GTS Well-Known Member

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        Common as they come
         
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        • jos51700

          jos51700 Well-Known Member

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          If it isn't modified, it's pretty rare now
           
        • dukeboy_318

          dukeboy_318 Get off my lawn!!! FABO Gold Member

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          not rare, there were 7200 225 slant 6s sold in that model and delivered in 1968. there were 9820 318 notchbacks. and manual drums were common as heck up until 73/74 when everything started switching to power discs.
           
        • Bitchs Brew

          Bitchs Brew Active Member

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          Yes, she has not been changed in anyway other than last owner trying to convert the blue interior to black.
           
        • Jim 68cuda

          Jim 68cuda Well-Known Member

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          The slant six is very common for all A bodies. I have seen very few A bodies with power brakes, and few were ordered with front disc brakes in 68. That makes the mechanical end of your car fairly common. But, the chrome plated vertical bars in the grille indicate the car is a "Win You Over"/ "Success Celebration" 68 Barracuda. The notchback with this package of options would have also had red reflective tape stripe on the deck lid between the tail lights, rocker moldings and painted accent stripes (pin stripes), vinyl top, wood grain steering wheel, deluxe wheel covers, white streak tires, and either a Hurst 3 speed manual floor shift or console automatic. To my knowledge, the chrome plated grille and red reflective tape on the deck lid were only used as part of these special edition Barracudas that came out in the spring. Fastback and convertible Win You Over/ Success Celebration editions were trimmed differently than the coupes. If yours is one of the Win You Over/Success Celebration notchbacks, then it would be rather unique, but still not necessarily rare. Rare would be if it still had all the original package options including the accent stripes that are rarely replicated correctly.
           
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          • Bitchs Brew

            Bitchs Brew Active Member

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            Sadly it was repainted at some point and may have had a vynil top as it is black under repaint. Looks like wide white stripe up the middle rear piece is painted black and has plymouth in sticker letters across it. Brite Blue interior front seat armrest , auto on column. I did not think it anything special, was just alotta fuss of the brakes not being Power when I went for ne MC
             
          • d55dave

            d55dave Well-Known Member

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            Honestly, IMO you really do not need power brakes in an A body, and it is a fact that, when properly maintained and adjusted, drum brakes stop better than disc brakes. Once only. Where drum brakes fall down is in their ability to shed heat, so they are very prone to brake fade due to boiling the brake fluid and off gassing of the pads.
             
          • Bitchs Brew

            Bitchs Brew Active Member

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            @Jim 68cuda where can I find detailed info on the Win you over package?
             
          • Jim 68cuda

            Jim 68cuda Well-Known Member

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            celebration special.jpg The only info I know of are a couple factory brochures from spring of '68. There is a television comercial on Youtube as well that shows a Win You Over Barracuda fastback and convertible, but it doesn't list the equipment included.
            wyo.jpg


             
            Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
          • Bitchs Brew

            Bitchs Brew Active Member

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            • slantsixdan

              slantsixdan =..=

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              Sorry, no, that is not a fact. It's a myth best filed in the same trashbin as "Breaker points are better than electronic ignition!" and "Carburetors are better than fuel injection!" and "Bias-ply tires are better than radials!" and "Leaded gasoline was better!": fun to think about in an old-car fantasy-world kind of way, but not a part of reality.

              You don't have to believe me if you don't want to; if you dig back through old magazines (everything from car mags to Popular Mechanics/Popular Science/Mechanix Illustrated to Consumer Reports) from when disc brakes were becoming widely available as an option, you'll find a lot of "Should your next car have disc brakes?" types of articles where they test a car with drums and the same car with discs. You might find the odd case (an unusually good drum system vs. an unusually poor disc system, that kind of thing) but the overall result is very consistent and it runs in one direction only: the discs are better from the first stop on.

              And that's on cars carefully inspected and adjusted exactly just right to make a "fair" comparison. If we ask the question in terms of the real world where drum brakes are usually at least a little out of whack, the discs win even bigger.
               
              Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod The New Salty Old Cracker FABO Gold Member Technical Editor

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                Everybody likes to think their junk is rare. Yours ain't.
                 
                Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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                • /sixchall

                  /sixchall Well-Known Member

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                  Ok guys! I was reading with interest your posts of the rarity concerning the SL6 "A" body's, with the "win you over package" and well adjusted drum brakes in comparison to disc brakes. The reason I like reading these posts about your SL6's. I believe everyone's own cars are rare, why not thier our cars. My own car is a stuck in the middle car, first because it's a 1970 Dodge Challenger secondly because it's powered by the venerable SL6, backed up by a 904 auto. w/ an 8 3/4, 742 carrier, one legger w/ 3.23 gear set. A rarity? I don't really know, I've been told by a lot of MOPAR people it is. I call it unique. Besides being an E-body SL6 car, it is #113 off LA's assy. line, built on the first day of regular 1970 production. I bought it from the Dodge dealership, here in my town, SE trim inside and out. Drum brakes on all 4 corners, 11's in back and 10's in front, it stops just fine. Rare!! Nope unique. Thanks, Al
                   
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                  • Bitchs Brew

                    Bitchs Brew Active Member

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                    Well aint you a hoot, I in no way famcied the car as anything special, if you liked to read rather than just comment you would have seen that. It was a question based on trying to find proper MC for it at parts store. Do Not need it to be special ,its 90% rust free that's special enough for me
                     
                  • d55dave

                    d55dave Well-Known Member

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                    Have you tried rockauto? They have lote listed.....
                     
                    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
                  • Bitchs Brew

                    Bitchs Brew Active Member

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                    Our old local place has one and only $28 at that going to fetch it up this morning
                     
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                    • slantsixdan

                      slantsixdan =..=

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                      That word "rare" means a lot of different things.

                      There's "rare" as in "This is one of only three '70 Dart GT hardtops painted Plum Crazy and equipped with the ashtray light package (…and that's why it's worth $38,999 although even the windows and seat foam are rusted out, let alone the actual body metal)".

                      There's "rare" as in "Wow, man, that's a super rare car! I know because my dad's cousin's stepbrother's boss had one, a '69 Lancer 880 9-passenger 2-door station wagon. Had a 383 Hemi with a 4-on-the-tree and factory A/C."

                      There's "rare" as in the opposite of "well done" (which can apply to cars or steaks)

                      Then there's "rare" as in statistically, 1968 Barracudas no longer exist at all, so no matter what engine, transmission, brake package, paint color, etc…at any given moment, unless you're at a car show, you're not likely to see another one soon.
                       
                    • d55dave

                      d55dave Well-Known Member

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                      Thanks for the clarification Dan. I am just going by what I have heard and read, and my own experience. I admit however that I am no where near as well read as you.

                      I formulate my opinion thdough my personal exeperience - I have had late 60s mopars with manual drum brakes that worked awesome, (but I have also had drum brake cars that were terrible....), plus my logic which tells me there is more surface area in a drum brake plus the self energizing effect of drum brakes. I have also seen more than one aftermarket disc conversion that was worse than the drums it replaced.

                      That being said, I do not believe for one minute that a drum brake is superior to a good disc set up and am a firm believer in using factory parts for conversions.
                       
                    • barbee6043

                      barbee6043 barbee 6043 FABO Gold Member

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                      slants in A bodies were the norm as is it is the norm for so many people to jerk out the slant for a SB or BB. therefore to find one with still its slant can be RARE!!
                       
                    • slantsixdan

                      slantsixdan =..=

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                      Sounds like you and I both have enough experience with drum-brake cars and disc-brake cars to vote for discs. The one thing drums do have going for them that discs don't (except the very complex and expensive airplane-type '55 Chrysler optional disc brake setup) is that drums are self-energising: the way the shoes contact the drum helps force them into harder contact with the drum, reducing pedal effort required for any given level of stopping. Neat trick when everything's in perfect condition and adjustment, but:

                      1. working against this tendency is that drums expand (get bigger in diameter, move away from the shoes) as they heat up, which doesn't happen with discs, and

                      2. let there be too much brake dust in the drums and it also means the brakes are much more likely to "grab" (no fun/not safe). This doesn't happen with discs, either.

                      Funny thing about brakes (also seatbelts): most of the time we don't need much brake and we don't need our seatbelt. Until we do…very suddenly, and very urgently.

                      (Also, you're right that the performance drop-off with drums is much steeper than with discs. You can build a top-notch drum system, but if you're headin' down a mountain…you still want the discs!)
                       
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                      • RustyRatRod

                        RustyRatRod The New Salty Old Cracker FABO Gold Member Technical Editor

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                        The one thing drums do have over discs is the surface area the shoes have against the drums. It is a LOT more than what disc pads have against the rotor. I "guess" maybe that's where they myth came from. Now, if somehow drum brakes could dissipate the heat quicker than discs, then maybe the drums would be more effective. Maybe. Maybe not.

                        I do know this as a fact. Drum brake systems are usually lighter than discs.
                         
                      • slantsixdan

                        slantsixdan =..=

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                        Not if we compare on a fair, like-to-like basis (equal stopping power). To approximate the stopping and heat-shedding capacity of a disc brake system, you need a much larger/heavier drum brake system. Sure, A-body 9" drum brakes weigh less than A-body disc brakes...but with the discs you don't have to pray as often or as hard.
                         
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