Whatever the reason, luck, skill, fluke, karma, quality, the solid flat tappet and lifters all survived. Engine runs great. Im letting the OP know its not all doom n gloom. His engine MIGHT be fine, might not. His call, his $$
Rebuilt engine initial fiasco
- Thread starter KJoeZ61
- Start date
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Prime it.
Well, yeah that's the pump only. I've seen guys use Vaseline or whatever and it works obviously, it puked oil all over your floor. I'm talking about the rest of the motor. Just thinking maybe bringing the pressure up with a drill would have caught that leak?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Too bad you didn't come here first, a few things to mull over for next time......
OIL.........
I personally do NOT like putting grease of any kind in the pump other than maybe a "small smear." Instead, prime the entire engine with a drill and a drive shaft down into the distributor hole. You can buy these or make them. I forget, 5/16 or 3/8 hex drive On a SB you turn CW
WHEN STARTING to prime, leave the oil filter OFF. This provides an open passage, relieves all head pressure off the pump, and a visual indication. Crank the engine or start your drill for a VERY short time. The pump should prime in about 1 second. Now fill the filter with oil and install it
Monitor next with an open hose installed at the oil sender hole, into a pan or bottle. When you get oil there, install a gauge. I use my cmpression tester, which has a quick connect, makes that easy
Next wait for the drill to bog, and turn or have someone turn the crank slowly to line up the cam oil holes. There are two postions of the crank. This will get oil to the top end.
Once you have oil to the rockers, you are done
TIMING.......As mentioned above, there are TWO methods of determining if the no1 cylinder is ready to fire.
If the valve covers are off, bring the timing marks up to TDC and look at the no1 and no6 valves. One pair will be closed and the opposite will be about equally open between intake and exhaust. Be careful here, you can get fooled
Otherwise, stick your finger into the no1 plug hole and crank or wrench the engine around normal rotation, CW/. At some point you will start to feel compression.
Now watch for the timing marks to come up, and do NOT set them to TDC. Instead set them to "where you want" initial timing to be set, and give it plenty of advance. A dead bone stock 273/ 318, maybe 10-12 degrees BTDC. A mild cam or stock 340, maybe 15. A fairly wild cam, maybe 20 degrees
Now install the dist, with the body rotated so the vacuum advance has "some movement" between firewall and intake manifold. If you have an original distributor, and properly installed the drive gear by the book (slot fore and aft, pointing to the far left front intake manifold bolt) then the distributor should have the rotor pointing "by the book" to the no1 dist. hole. THIS DOES NOT ACTUALLY MATTER
Now RETARD the dist. body (cw on a SB) and advance it back (CCW) until the points open, or the reluctor is centered in the pickup coil. WHEN YOU GET GOOD AT THIS you can actually move the dist back and forth with the ignition powered, and generate a spark as you move the dist. past the 'trigger point.' You can rock this back and forth and get the timing pretty close.
Plug the no1 wire in where the rotor points, and install the remainder of the plug wires
YOU CAN ALSO hook a timing light up and run it on the starter to set intial timing.
IF YOU DO THIS correctly, the engine will instantly fire if it has fuel. I've "test fired" engines with this method and NO carburetor, simply fuel "down the throat" from a squirt can
OIL.........
I personally do NOT like putting grease of any kind in the pump other than maybe a "small smear." Instead, prime the entire engine with a drill and a drive shaft down into the distributor hole. You can buy these or make them. I forget, 5/16 or 3/8 hex drive On a SB you turn CW
WHEN STARTING to prime, leave the oil filter OFF. This provides an open passage, relieves all head pressure off the pump, and a visual indication. Crank the engine or start your drill for a VERY short time. The pump should prime in about 1 second. Now fill the filter with oil and install it
Monitor next with an open hose installed at the oil sender hole, into a pan or bottle. When you get oil there, install a gauge. I use my cmpression tester, which has a quick connect, makes that easy
Next wait for the drill to bog, and turn or have someone turn the crank slowly to line up the cam oil holes. There are two postions of the crank. This will get oil to the top end.
Once you have oil to the rockers, you are done
TIMING.......As mentioned above, there are TWO methods of determining if the no1 cylinder is ready to fire.
If the valve covers are off, bring the timing marks up to TDC and look at the no1 and no6 valves. One pair will be closed and the opposite will be about equally open between intake and exhaust. Be careful here, you can get fooled
Otherwise, stick your finger into the no1 plug hole and crank or wrench the engine around normal rotation, CW/. At some point you will start to feel compression.
Now watch for the timing marks to come up, and do NOT set them to TDC. Instead set them to "where you want" initial timing to be set, and give it plenty of advance. A dead bone stock 273/ 318, maybe 10-12 degrees BTDC. A mild cam or stock 340, maybe 15. A fairly wild cam, maybe 20 degrees
Now install the dist, with the body rotated so the vacuum advance has "some movement" between firewall and intake manifold. If you have an original distributor, and properly installed the drive gear by the book (slot fore and aft, pointing to the far left front intake manifold bolt) then the distributor should have the rotor pointing "by the book" to the no1 dist. hole. THIS DOES NOT ACTUALLY MATTER
Now RETARD the dist. body (cw on a SB) and advance it back (CCW) until the points open, or the reluctor is centered in the pickup coil. WHEN YOU GET GOOD AT THIS you can actually move the dist back and forth with the ignition powered, and generate a spark as you move the dist. past the 'trigger point.' You can rock this back and forth and get the timing pretty close.
Plug the no1 wire in where the rotor points, and install the remainder of the plug wires
YOU CAN ALSO hook a timing light up and run it on the starter to set intial timing.
IF YOU DO THIS correctly, the engine will instantly fire if it has fuel. I've "test fired" engines with this method and NO carburetor, simply fuel "down the throat" from a squirt can
KJoeZ61
Well-Known Member
I was looking closer at the adaptor and especially the tube/bolt now that its off the car. The tube/bolt appears not to be straight, hard to describe but I cant see how it was seating properly. Found a new adaptor on eBay and ill give it another try. Can anyone tell me what it should be torqued too?
If you go to mymopar.com you can download a free manual.
That one is not listed in the service manuals...
I've seen some threads say not more than 50 ft*lb...
I would start between 35-45 ft*lb and watch for leaks...
If it leaks, then tighten it up a bit, but I think it should be fine over 30 ft*lbs....
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I found it in the MP SB engine book. I'd have to look again but I think it came out of the 1974 360 FSM.
fishy68
Tyr Fryr's Inc.
I, like others have mentioned would use a smaller filter that'd fit without the adapter. I'm certain Wix makes one that's pretty small. Personally I haven't had great luck with them sealing perfectly and I don't like leaks, even small ones. JMHO
I know. I don't understand why in HECK people think you need a different than normal weight (grade) oil than is required for break in than is normally run. It slap blows my biscuits. 10/30, 10/30, 10/30. Make sure you have plenty of zinc if it's a flat tappet.
famous bob
mopar misfit
I bought a new hemi pump one time from a Chrysler dealer, it had "grease" already in it !
When I picked up my engine from a Mopar leaning machine shop it had a little oil filter on it that was used through the whole dyno sessions. When I asked the builder about it, he just laughed and said that he uses a small filter to clear the dyno headers and that it would be fine to run the small filter. I thought I had a pic of it somewhere but I can't find it. I think it was the small filter that was used on the 2.2 engines.
More Information for WIX 51348
d1970
TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO HAVE A GOOD DAY
Napa 1085 short oil filter (3.836 inch)
KJoeZ61
Well-Known Member
Would the Fram 3950 work?
dartfever
Well-Known Member
I use the wix 51085. The fram equivalent is ph16. That's what the stock magnum engines use. Fits with room to spare with dougs headers. Oh and the fram filter for the 2.2 or 2.5 is ph3614
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mario03srt
Well-Known Member
To be clear, if the machine shop primed the pump that's good but when it counts is just minutes before the fire-up! You want lube in every nook and cranny, pull the VC's or look in them to verify oil in the top end. Maybe the 90 degree adapter leaking was a God send? Also there is a big torque requirement for the big a** bolt, with some extensions and universals you can get to it. I think it was 50 ft lbs but I'm almost 60 now so I could be trippin. ;) Best of luck , starting my new engine with flat tappet cam was very stressful for me. Be sure to check all systems before firing, spark, fuel, 12v power to the dizzy etc. I was in the car at the controls when it started, all of the smoke from the header ceramic coating was freaking me out and I did think of the adapter! I kept an eye on my helpers and they did not freak so I kept it between 2200-2500 back and forth. All that effort paid off as I own a screaming ***** of a 367 cubie FI engine!
FYI,
Marion
Not on anything I own.
The 73 plymouth service manual lists the oblt for the plate at 50 ft *lb, which should be the same for the 90° adapter bolt....
Marcohotrod
Well-Known Member
look at the block where the old plate contacts the block near the outside diameter, there will be an old gasket you needed to remove.
KJoeZ61
Well-Known Member
The PH16 misses by over an inch.
should that gasket go on dry or with silicone?
Concur with the 50 ft/lbs., refer to post #6, I don't use sili nothing on pressurized oil gaskets.
Gasket-tack, cinch, shellac like things sure, if You assemble them quickly & use it sparingly.
My own start-up scare was the 455 Olds, Buddy put it in & had it ready for start-up, I had already primed it & pre-timed it....electric f-pump & no leaks. Fired right up and
We set the idle for the 20 min. ride to break-inboro, when all of a sudden this chirping squawking ringing noise started coming & going, occasionally kind of screeching to
the point that I finally aborted the break-in about 6-7 minutes in. I'm like WTF???!! All the vital signs were perfect, then it dawned on My Bud, He forgot to put the freakin'
converter screws in.................AARRGGHHHH!!! Did so, checked the fluid level, and away We went.............that was 10yrs. ago, and that custom CompCam is still in there.
We set the idle for the 20 min. ride to break-inboro, when all of a sudden this chirping squawking ringing noise started coming & going, occasionally kind of screeching to
the point that I finally aborted the break-in about 6-7 minutes in. I'm like WTF???!! All the vital signs were perfect, then it dawned on My Bud, He forgot to put the freakin'
converter screws in.................AARRGGHHHH!!! Did so, checked the fluid level, and away We went.............that was 10yrs. ago, and that custom CompCam is still in there.
Marcohotrod
Well-Known Member
what u initially said was when the old plate was removed no old gasket was removed before the angle mount was installed. the plate uses a gasket. use a gasket adhesive-like gaskacinch or indian head-not silicone
KJoeZ61
Well-Known Member
We’re good to go now! I replaced the 90 adapter, the bolt/tube wasn’t right, it’s bent! Anyway the new one is installed and doesn’t leak at all. Had a 1/2 high idle, so far so good. Thanks for all the help it’s really appreciated.
dibbons
Well-Known Member
I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that Vaseline was sometimes used in the oil pump impellers to "prime" it. Or maybe I am thinking of something else.
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