slantsixdan
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More Slant-6 specific info at the HEI upgrade article. The headlamp relay diagram posted above is from this page on my site.
72 Duster Resurrection
- Thread starter Duster Captain
- Start date
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Hi Dan, i hope you dont mind me getting a copy of that lighting schematic? It was layed out where it made the most sense to me.
slantsixdan
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I don't mind a bit! I'm actually a little ashamed of that diagram—I made it at least two decades ago in something like MacPaint. It conveys the idea okeh, but it was meant as a placeholder until I would take the time to make a nicer one, and I guess I still haven't. :-\
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Its a fine looking schematic as far as i am concerned. I see nothing wrong with it. However i will be tapping power for my relays from the battery and not at alternator output, but other than that minor difference i have it archived with my auto stuff.
cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
I would go from the alternator, less load through ammeter etc.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Load problrms, i dont have no stinking load problems lol. I dont have an ammeter. Its all bypassed, and i have a volt gage in there now. My alternator is a 50A mini denso, and output wire from it is marine grade 8ga going right to the battery, with a 12ga fusable link at the batt connection.
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Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
Ok, while the engine has been gently idling for a minute, the instruments settle to this state:
Voltage staying at a negative current draw position when the engine is not running and jumps to what the pic shows when the engine is idling.
temp immediately and steadily increases from cold peg to hot peg as soon as the engine starts. I absolutely refuse to believe this is correct. From a dead cold engine to pegged out temp after 2 mins of idle? no way. I'm ordering a replacement temp sender.
Fuel has never moved from empty even with 5 gals of fresh gas added.
Could these problems be the gage voltage regulator you mentioned?
Yeah I love rock auto, probably the best site organization, pictures, and selection out there. Im putting together an order for this project now, including the NSS you recommended there, thanks for looking that up for me.
Sorry to hear about your back my friend, I hope your recovery goes well. I definitely appreciate all your input, I still need to re-read your posts about the instrument panels, amp meter bypass, etc.
Keep it coming!
Dan, I definitely plan on doing a HEI upgrade and the headlamps for sure need some work, so thanks for the great info as usual!
Questions for the experts:
-The engine will start perfectly and run happily with someone manually spraying gas into the carb. The fuel feed line pumps a strong stream of gas out when the engine is running so I know the fuel pump and lines are functional.
However, when the gas feed line is attached to the carb, the engine will not start. So I need to break the carb down, clean, inspect, and possibly rebuild. No surprise there.
But I am going nuts trying to find the right rebuild kit. I have done my research for Holley 1920 identification help via
1920 1 Barrel
and the video here Holley 1920 Carburetor Kits
and threads like this Holley 1920 carburetor identification HELP!!
I just can. not. find. a 4 digit "list number" that any site has a rebuild kit for.
Here are my carb pics:
I know that third pic with the numbers 0509 and 4164 are supposed to be the ones I need, but Im just running into a wall finding a kit.
Any advice?.....
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the well wishes for a speedy recovery. While i am a captive audience i will help as much as i can. Its Prob bad sender for the water temp. Its prob shorted internally to ground. If the IVR was going bad fuel level and water temp would both peg or go to empty.
For your fuel level gage, unplug the wire at the sending unit and run a jumper from the fuel tank sender wire directly to a body ground only long enough to see if the gage deflects to full. If it does go to full, then you may have a bad sender, or a sunk float. I have seen these old brass floats develop pin holes and fill with fuel. The repop senders are not as accurate as the originals, so if its that , i recommend removing it, cleaning it up with some tarnex, or CLR and ohming out the sender with a meter and making sure you get a variable resistance from full to empty. I believe you can buy a new float if thats whats needed, a new filter sock, and a rubber gasket. If you can save your metal sending unit retaining ring i recommend doing so. The repop ones dont fit very well.
When back there, look for a stamped sheetmetal metal jumper that goes from the sending unit tube and attaches to the body fuel line this is the sending units ground. If its missing the gage wont work either. Check for this strap at the gas tank first. If its missing make a temp jumper ground wire from the fuel sender to body ground and see if gage works. If jumper strap is there, unplug sender wire and jump that to ground and see if gage deflects to full.
I have about a 20 test lead jumper wires with alligator clips on either end in my tool box. I bought em at radio shack premade. They come in red, white, black, yellow, green. 2 leads in each color 10 to a package. Way cheaper than you could ever make them.
See pix below for sender ground strap, and position on fuel tank line.
For your fuel level gage, unplug the wire at the sending unit and run a jumper from the fuel tank sender wire directly to a body ground only long enough to see if the gage deflects to full. If it does go to full, then you may have a bad sender, or a sunk float. I have seen these old brass floats develop pin holes and fill with fuel. The repop senders are not as accurate as the originals, so if its that , i recommend removing it, cleaning it up with some tarnex, or CLR and ohming out the sender with a meter and making sure you get a variable resistance from full to empty. I believe you can buy a new float if thats whats needed, a new filter sock, and a rubber gasket. If you can save your metal sending unit retaining ring i recommend doing so. The repop ones dont fit very well.
When back there, look for a stamped sheetmetal metal jumper that goes from the sending unit tube and attaches to the body fuel line this is the sending units ground. If its missing the gage wont work either. Check for this strap at the gas tank first. If its missing make a temp jumper ground wire from the fuel sender to body ground and see if gage works. If jumper strap is there, unplug sender wire and jump that to ground and see if gage deflects to full.
I have about a 20 test lead jumper wires with alligator clips on either end in my tool box. I bought em at radio shack premade. They come in red, white, black, yellow, green. 2 leads in each color 10 to a package. Way cheaper than you could ever make them.
See pix below for sender ground strap, and position on fuel tank line.
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Your carb prob has a stuck float and needle and seat stuck closed. Not sure what kit you need. I think the jiffy kits fit multiple years models of model 1920 carbs. This is the simplest carburetor i have ever rebuilt.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Have you ever figured out how to unpin the terminals from the bulkhead connector to clean them. See pix below. The brass ignition key specifically. Notice the before pic. It was tarnished black. This was cleaned with a small steel wire brush after soaking it in CLR, then rinsed with fresh water.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
If you dont know how to do this, i can post a few pix on how to easily do this. Just let me know.
Also on the fuel tank sending unit, if you jumper the sender wire to ground and the gage doesnt move, unscrew the drivers side kick panel and remove it. There is a gray colored wiring plug that is behing this panel. Its for the body wiring that goes back from the dash. Pulling it apart and reconnecting it might scrape off any tarnish making a bad connection going back to the rear of the car.
Also on the fuel tank sending unit, if you jumper the sender wire to ground and the gage doesnt move, unscrew the drivers side kick panel and remove it. There is a gray colored wiring plug that is behing this panel. Its for the body wiring that goes back from the dash. Pulling it apart and reconnecting it might scrape off any tarnish making a bad connection going back to the rear of the car.
slantsixdan
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Your temp gauge is about to cook to death. Your fuel gauge may very well already have been cooked to death. If the instrument cluster voltage regulator (plugged onto the back of the instrument cluster -- not the same as the voltage regulator in the engine bay) has failed with its points stuck closed, the fuel and temp gauges will peg and then cook to death, not necessarily at the same time. If you need a new ICVR, the best one is here. However, that's not the only possible cause of this what you're showing us. The ICVR could be fine and you could have a hot-pegged temp gauge reading because the wire from the sender to the gauge is shorted to ground somewhere along its length, or the sender (screwed in at the top-front of the engine) could be faulty; meanwhile your empty fuel gauge reading could be a faulty fuel gauge sender, or the sender could be fine but its float could be sunk, or its float could be fine but it's lost its ground.
Float: Ford P/N COAZ-9202-B
Strainer "sock": GM P/N 5651 705 (buy this in any event; you will want to replace it if you pull the sender)
Gasket: Chrysler P/N 6031 475
Sender grounding clip: Chrysler P/N 2258 862.
If you go removing the sender from the tank, you probably don't have the special lock ring wrench, so use a non-sparking drift (NOT made of steel or iron!) to knock the lock ring loose and then re-tighten it. Otherwise it could be the last advice you ever ignore.
Fine/normal.
Don't love it too hard. Their catalogue is not flawless (contains errors) and you have to really be on your toes to get good quality parts for older cars like ours. Way too easy to get poor-quality junk these days. Consider better-quality parts from the likes of Old Car Parts Northwest and/or other sources listed here.]here[/url].
See post № 11.
You haven't found the carb list number yet. None of your photos shows the correct view, which is of the front-facing "wall" above the float bowl, not far from the curved bowl vent nipple. It's worth looking again; all 1920 kits are not alike.
Moreover, don't be too surprised or disappointed if this carb, which has already been abusively "remanufactured" at least once, does not respond fully or well to your rebuild efforts. Still worth doing it in case you get a good result, and for the learning experience, but.
Nope.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Quick test on temp gage to see if wire is shorted to ground is to unplug the temp sender with ign sw on. See if the gage stays pegged
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
Dan, I am just not finding any other numbers of any kind on this carb. Is this the area you are talking about?
So is this guy just wrong?
I was thinking he would know his stuff because he runs a carb parts website, but you never know I guess.. Or are there just so many different versions of the 1920 that identification is not trivial?
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
That website pic shows numbers on the.carburetor casting behind float bowl when looking straight down from the top. Not from the front. Take a pic of yours looking straight down the throat and post it.
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
But the numbers located there are the ones I posted in my previous post (#57), last picture:
I see numbers 0509 and 4164 exactly where that video says I should, but I can not find any kits that are a fit for those numbers.
A bit confused here....
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cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Plymouth 1968 to 1973 kit # K4093 seems like a no brainer to me. How bout you slant six dan? Looks like other variants of this carb were used on international harvester and AMC
slantsixdan
=..=
'68-'73 kit will do fine. This carb would not be on my short list of viable candidates for a long-term good runner, but build it for the experience.
trapster
Well-Known Member
Have you tried removing the 4 screws on the float bowl and spraying everything down with carb medic spray, then making sure the needle and seat are not stuck and putting it back together, careful not to beak the bowl gasket.
or spray cleaner (carb medic) in the bowl vent alone with gas and light tap the bowl with the back of a screwdriver to loosen the needle, then try to start it. spraying cleaner in the fuel line going into the carb may also help.
This isn't a permanent solution but it may get you running.
or spray cleaner (carb medic) in the bowl vent alone with gas and light tap the bowl with the back of a screwdriver to loosen the needle, then try to start it. spraying cleaner in the fuel line going into the carb may also help.
This isn't a permanent solution but it may get you running.
cdnEHbody
Well-Known Member
Also, if you order a kit, order more float bowl gaskets, i like cork ones as any imperfections are dealt with better in the sealing surface. 3 years, no leaks with cork
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
As usual, thanks for all the solid advice, this thread is turning into a big checklist of things I will need to do.
So, an update:
I got the carb to pull its own gas (details further down), threw some air in the very cracked looking tires, and for the first time in years, this 1972 plymouth Duster cruised down my neighborhood street at about 5mph. It was clunky, dirty, smelly, dangerous, and completely awesome. See more details below.
Thanks, this sounds like a good place to start on the fuel gage. Those pics are very helpful.
Sounds like you and Dan agree this one will work, so thats good enough for me!
So the problem with the carb was indeed a stuck float valve as several posters have suggested. I took the bowl off, sprayed carb cleaner on everything and put it back together. Worked fine. There was a fuel leak at the bottom of the bowl gasket because someone had not seated the gasket properly before tightening the bowl bolts, but i managed to get it to hold. I also had to make a pretty sketchy homemade carb-to-intake gasket because I could not find one in local stores and I was impatient to get the carb back on (I can hear slantsixdan's blood pressure rising...) I have a picture of it, but its pretty embarrassing...
So, an update:
I got the carb to pull its own gas (details further down), threw some air in the very cracked looking tires, and for the first time in years, this 1972 plymouth Duster cruised down my neighborhood street at about 5mph. It was clunky, dirty, smelly, dangerous, and completely awesome. See more details below.
Thanks, this sounds like a good place to start on the fuel gage. Those pics are very helpful.
Sounds like you and Dan agree this one will work, so thats good enough for me!
So the problem with the carb was indeed a stuck float valve as several posters have suggested. I took the bowl off, sprayed carb cleaner on everything and put it back together. Worked fine. There was a fuel leak at the bottom of the bowl gasket because someone had not seated the gasket properly before tightening the bowl bolts, but i managed to get it to hold. I also had to make a pretty sketchy homemade carb-to-intake gasket because I could not find one in local stores and I was impatient to get the carb back on (I can hear slantsixdan's blood pressure rising...) I have a picture of it, but its pretty embarrassing...
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Sounds like your making progress.
Duster Captain
Well-Known Member
Yeah I think I agree with you, but its working now, so......Also I have a 4 bbl Holley laying around with a rebuilt 318 V8 so this problem might just go away in the future....
Yep, it was a stuck float valve.
Definitely. The existing gasket it....sketchy. See how it was not uniformly "pinched" between the bowl and carb?
This was making it leak. I managed to loosen the bolt screws, "stuff" the gasket inside and re tighten the screws. Its holding for now....
trapster
Well-Known Member
and definitely unplug your temperature sensor before you ruin your temp gauge. you can measure the voltage going to your sensor, if you have 5 volts or 12 volts and pulsing your dash regulator is working. if it is 12 volts steady then the dash regulator is shot, leave the temp sensor unconnected, and use another method to measure temperature.
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