Starting to rebuild the Allen distributor machine

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I was thinking of making a distributor machine for a while. So far all I got is an old small drill press (mount it upside down) and a large degree wheel. Need to figure a way to modulate rpms maybe with a small motor. Got the tach/dwell meter. Got a couple of old timing lights too.
This is great! I'm getting ideas (although some of this is outside of my ability to understand). One of these days i'll figure it out. (Kinda a back burner project). Like the mopar module idea (or the hei for that matter).
 
I was thinking of making a distributor machine . Need to figure a way to modulate rpms maybe with a small motor.

Look around Ebag for variable frequency drives. These are getting cheaper and cheaper. Another route is to troll the thrift stores for a used "older" powered treadmill. You want one, if possible with a basic speed control with a pot--like a volume control.

I've got one on my little Atlas 12" lathe, and it works great. These are a DC variable speed motor.

Yet another way is to simply drive it with a variable speed drill such as the earlier "junker" photo I posted.
 
So are you able to test Mallory distributors? what do you charge for your service?

Sorry, "other things" have come up and I don't have it together quite yet.

I just can't seem ta get stuff done like I us'ta
 
Del, I love the "restification" you're (were??) doing on that old machine. using modern technology to replace some old bits that just weren't up to today's dizzys. I'm hoping that maybe more progress is one of your new year's resolutions!

BC
 
I do too LOL. One big problem that's developing is that I have a serious drop in bodily energy from what I did have. I just plain don't have the "go" I once did.

I'm sure there'll be cold days this winter when I can putter on this.
 
I like the ideas your putting in. I have one of these and am in process of restoring it. If I had any bad items I could not find I would consider the mods you did. Only item I am thinking on is the dang strobe neon sticks. I only have one and am not sure if it is good. Can not find reasonable priced replacements, so I may consider making my own but will choose argon for a blue strobe.
I was thing on working out how to just use high intensity LEDs and if tube making effort goes bad may try that path.

Where ever did you find the scope would like to get one of those.

OH my coil is a replacement that does not fit can you provide aby details on the coil that you pulled out of your unit it looks like it fit the mount where as mine is to big. So looking for right coil type to get one.
 
The scope turned out to be a toy.

The coil is not important. Some of what I posted was experimentation and may /probably will be changed. If you look back, you can see the diagram I layed out for the ignition, which will probably be the same, using multiple ballasts and a Mopar ignition box. This too may change, I have not decided. It will depend on whether scope tests determine if there is a time delay that develops at RPM or not. The multiple ballasts are to limit current, as you don't need "all that much" spark.

What I was attempting to do by using a Mopar box was to come up with a "universal" trigger that would work with breakerless and points type distributors. But I could also use an HEI module and simply unhook the thing and trigger the coil directly with points as it originally had been.

I have not found a solid, cheap, good solution for flash tubes. Cheap, NEON timing lights might be one source. I even though about trying to modify "bright" triggered conventional lights, but this would be a little trickier!!!

Mine both seem OK, so I was not too worried at the time. I have too much "crap" to do and not enough time -- or room LOL

By the way what model is yours? And do you have a manual on it?
 
Ah found the scope on the e bay
I do plan on getting some neon glass and using my vacuum pump and a bottle of welding argon to make some lamps.
But would like to try building one LED tied to a 100V zener and a megohm resistor inline.

My model is an E-1415 only have a schematic, I am looking for a manual.
I have one guy that says he will sell me a copy for $30, but I can not believe some one out there does not have a digital copy to share. I know if I do find a paper copy for very cheap I will scan and post.
Seams the paper work is harder to get then the test set.
 
I have a copy but not sure it's same as yours. I'll have to look up the dope and get back to you. Watch for PM in the next few days.

Of course I finally gutted mine out, so the diagram is pretty much useless to me, now.

The diagram would have been most important part if you keep it original.
 
FWIW the Ford Dura-Spark II system is inductive, not Hall Effect. The Ford TFI's are Hall Effect.
 
I wish I had half the sense to do stuff like this.
 
Yeah, well at least YOU know what you're lookin at. lol
 
Hi
We have an Allen Synchrograph distributor machine that is very similar to the machines you were rebuilding.
The strobe bulbs on our machine are broken and i wanted to know if you have any or know of a place that has some. We can adapt other bulbs if this is possible, with use of a resistor or other electronics to make it work.
We have tried small neon bulbs which work but have a secondary flash. The secondary flash is bright enough that an accurate reading is not possible.

Any help would be appreciated
 
Strobe tubes are Xenon. They come in different sizes. The energy source is often a voltage booster that charges a capacitor that is quickly discharged at flash, being triggered by the ignition. The tube must be matched to the charge voltage, and capacity to have the correct discharge persistence. Too much energy will result in the blur, due to long persistence .

In about 1971 I built a timing light from scratch using a 120V to 6.3V center taped transformer, bridge rectifier, a few transistors, capacitors, resistors and a xenon bulb from RadioShack. I was surprised to find they still have the tube. http://www.radioshack.com/long-life-xenon-strobe-tube/2721145.html#.VNVrg_V6hJ8
The bulb requires a supply between 200 and 300 VDC. It is not a large bulb, try a 450 DC, 47uF capacitor. The trigger comes from the ignition high tension cable with about 50k, 1W resistor in series.
 
My rebuild of my Allen was proceeding well till last May then our son moved back home. So it sits tarped in front of the shop. He is back out of the house so maybe between the Chemo treats I will get back and finish it.

I stuck with the analog meters and just refurbished the meter panel and replaced the capacitors. It functions quite well. I do have a quick and easy way to tap and feed a digital RPM dwell meter (if desired) and planed that as external box on a jack in the rear of unit so I can also use it on the car.

The vacuum pump is a bit ODD! but after dis assembly and some fresh rubber and such it rebuilt nicely. The most problem there is the belt drive. Previous owner cut a small vacuum cleaner belt in half to make it work, but I am searching for proper diameter round belt to use.

As for the coil, large dropping resistor and all the rotating wippers just to feed the strobes, I questioned if it was done just to keep it automotive until I saw on my Sun distributor test that uses the coil to test plug sets. Since I have that tester I was opting to drop the coil but then wondered if it was best to leave a coil for proper matching to the points in the distributor.. As my strobe bulbs had one missing and cost to buy new ones (or even used) are outrageous, I had a local sign shop make some neon filled tubes. While they glow under high voltage they fail to work in the circuit. I determined it was likely do to the fact they are just sealed tubes with no metal end caps or wires to bring the volts inside the tube. SO was planning to melt fedder wires into each end. I had not tested this.
But in the last several months I have found a high in tensity LED driver circuit using and Arduino module that will trigger off the coils output and so will mount the two LED in place of the strobe tubes.

It will be nice to pull the tarps off and get back to it, but am concerned on where I left off, another project I had dropped I restarted only to find missing parts.
 
Cool old thread, I just scored a old sun MDT tester that is currently apart and being rebuilt, I am going to use a gm HEI modual for the signal amp, will let you know if it works if there is interest in it.
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Last summer I bought an Allen "Syncrograph." "distributor tester." It worked, but as soon as I looked inside and moved a couple of wires, the hard old insulation literally crumbled!!! So I decided to modernize it some. Plans are to use (probably) a Mopar ECU for ignition --the machine needs a high voltage source for the timing strobes. With something like the Mopar ECU, I can use EITHER points distributors or breakerless. I may also use a GM HEI module, with a toggle switch, could easily switch from points to breakerless.

For the tach and dwell, (separate meters) I have two "thrift store" meters and plan to simply pirate the boards and rework as necessary for those functions. I've got 6.00? bucks into the small one, and 25 into the large one.

Below, the gutted interior The bottom of the drive shaft is a rubber wheel, and all the mechanical crap is hooked to the huge knob in the front/ center on the lower part of the machine. This moves the drive motor plate up/ down against a spring, and the motor drives the rubber wheel with an aluminum disk. Anyone who has worked on Ariens snow blowers knows this trick.

I still have not figured out how to add text with each photo!!!!

The box of parts is the 1940's era technology. Yes they actually use a coil for ignition. It generates high voltage to fire the strobes and of course was triggered right off the dist. points. Three old tubes, a 5y3 GT dual diode rectifier tube, a 1B3 high voltage damper (used in old TV high voltage supplies), and an 0C3 gaseous rectifier tube

Next two are the tach/ dwell meters, only the boards will be used, my original Allen meters will be used The original tach was fired off the shaft with slip rings, and now I'll adapt one of these tach boards with the inductive pickup, doing away with the three slip rings and brushes

Next is bottom of the strobe wheel. The ring is the slip ring to pickup high voltage, the strobe flash tubes are in the enclosure near top. This will be used pretty much as--is, except a magnet will be attached on the side where the counterweight (bottom) is now, to fire the tach

Below the strobe wheel photo is the brushes holder (top right) for the tach, and the spark gap/ board bottom left is the brush holder and voltage limiter for the strobe tubes. An old 1B3 damper tube (a diode tube) is across the coil output to ground, which turns it into a spike, and limits voltage. The spark gaps here on this board further limit voltage

The chassis photos show the old technology. I started to build a diagram. I may or may not use the transformer. It has at least two low voltage windings, and I may use them for 12V supplies for the tach/ dwell and even ignition The two little square things on the one side are the forerunners of modern rectifier diodes, known as "selenium rectifiers." These may still be used in some battery chargers.

Bottom photo is the horrid, the awful, vacuum pump. Truely a horrid design. I'll find another pump to go in it's place
I have one (allen), too. I haven't even tried to see if it works at all. I'm not even sure I know how to use it, and I certainly didn't understand anything you're doing to yours, but it sounds pretty cool.
 
Tell you the same thing as Jim. PM me your email if you can receive a 9 mb file, I'll send the manual. I could split it up if needed
 
Made a Meager amount of progress. Bought some LM-2907 chips to rebuild the tach circuit, then decided to try a cheap digi tach on ebay. Just over 11 bucks, free shipping!!

Got the Mopar reluctor "Roughed in" still have to do a little work to make that fit. That will be the new tach trigger


Got a used medical vacuum pump (thrift store, of course) mounted, picked up some new 4 conductor wire for the motor wiring and got the motor re--mounted

Mounted the old, empty chassis to measure up so I can mod if for mounting the new digi tach
ok, I'm beginning to understand it. so what is the point behind the v8 reluctor adapted to the drive shaft? did you say it's for the tach signal? if so, how does it do that?
 
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