ethanol in gas bad for our cars?

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Nope. But adding oil to the fuel does nothing to combat that -- except perhaps in the mind of he who does it.
My mind's just fine. Apparently we must have learned chemistry at different colleges:

http://www.chemcases.com/converter/converter-24.htm

Just a reminder, the topic of this thread is "ethanol in gas bad for our cars?" The consensus seems to be yes, and fuel additives are clearly one way of combating the issue.
 
So Dan, what's up? You on-board with my anti-ethanol fuel additive yet, or what?

It's definitely alot cheaper than most of the stuff lining the shelves at your local stores labeled as "fuel additives," "injector cleaners," "octane boosters," and whatever "flavor-of-day snake oil swill" you might purchase to dump in your gas tank.

And it works for combating ethanol-induced driveability symptoms, not to mention as a great top-end lube. Probably help for the rubber and seal compatibility issues too, just not sure about that yet.
 
I've been using an additive for about a month now.Tried it first in a weed eater.No longer have to even choke the engine.Made by Starbrite,the additive name is STARTRON enzyme fuel treatment for 2 & 4 cycle gas engines.Use it in Dodge ram with 5.7 did make a difference.


I looked this up on line. Does it really work?
 

…says not a thing about adding 2-cycle oil (or any other variety of oil) to the gas tank of a car.

Just a reminder, the topic of this thread is "ethanol in gas bad for our cars?"

Yes, and the subthread's about adding oil to the gasohol.

The consensus seems to be yes

I agree with that consensus, as you'll note if you'll look back at what I actually wrote.

fuel additives are clearly one way of combating the issue.

I don't disagree there, either -- read what I wrote.

Your logic appears to be "Additives help combat the bad effects of ethanol-contaminated gasoline. 2-cycle oil added to the gas tank is an additive. Therefore, 2-cycle oil helps combat the bad effects of ethanol-contaminated gasoline." That is a fundamental, basic fallacy; by that logic, grape Kool-Aid added to the gas tank would also be an additive, and therefore would also help combat the bad effects of ethanol-contaminated gasoline.

No, the additive you choose matters. You say 2-cycle oil is beneficial. As proof, so far you've…said it again! Can you do better than that? Where'd the idea come from? Did you read about it somewhere? If so, show us where, will you? If it's an idea you came up with, show us some proof or at least an opinion from someone who's in a position to issue an opinion that counts. Neither yours nor mine counts for much, because I'm not a tribologist or a metallurgist or a petrochemist or a combustion specialist, and I'm guessing you're not, either. What would proof look like? Well, a lab analysis of Sta-Bil's (or any other brand's) ethanol fuel additive and a lab analysis of 2-cycle oil that shows they're pretty much alike would be good.

Unless and until you can come up with some kind of evidence to support your claim, that's all it is -- a claim. You believe in the efficacy of 2-cycle oil for this application. I don't, because the tasks for which 2-cycle oil were designed are different from the tasks required of an additive to combat the bad effects of ethanol in gasoline, oil is known to reduce the octane rating of gasoline, and I believe in using the right tool for the job (I don't try to drive nails with screwdrivers, either). Neither of us is likely to change the other's mind; I'll probably keep using an additive meant for the task at hand and you'll probably keep using 2-cycle oil. *shrug*

drinkup.gif
 
Ethanol is the worst thing you can put in our old car's! If you don't run stainless lines, and a carb built for it, it will corrode them. I will drive across town to get fuel without it, don't know about the stabil stuff, might be good. I can absolutley tell the difference when I run ethanol free gas.
 
…says not a thing about adding 2-cycle oil (or any other variety of oil) to the gas tank of a car.
Hint: It has to do with vapor pressure. In any case I'll take that as a "no."
Unless and until you can come up with some kind of evidence to support your claim, that's all it is -- a claim.
I'm not claiming anything, just relating a bit of personal experience. Try it, you might like it. Or not, your choice. Just don't pretend you can read my mind or tell me how my car runs.

One last question, Dan: Just curious, is that you in your avatar?
 
I work at Can Tire and spotted the new Sta-bil product on our shelf. It says "Marine" on it as well as "Ethanol treatment" It says it can be used in all engines. My car aint anywhere near running, so I cant vouch for it.
 
The first year that 10% ethanol in the gas came out here that winter,everyone that put up their small engine,all had problem come spring....
I had repeat customer after customer having me look at their vehicles due to mpg loss.
Told them all it was the ethanol.
One of my customers is a landscaper and I asked him how he was dealing with it.He told me that he fills his five gallon gas cans to the top,on each gas can he has mark about 1 inch down.He leaves the lid off the gas can till it reaches that mark.He says the ethanol evaporates first and swears he no longer has problems with his small engines even after being store for awhile.
TXDart
 
He leaves the lid off the gas can till it reaches that mark.He says the ethanol evaporates first...
That's an excellent practical example of the higher vapor pressure of ethanol, and the reason it causes problems in carbureted applications under hot driving conditions.
 
he fills his five gallon gas cans to the top,on each gas can he has mark about 1 inch down.He leaves the lid off the gas can till it reaches that mark.He says the ethanol evaporates first

I think he's probably wrong. He (or you, or anyone else wanting to) can easily check it out and see. Briggs and Stratton makes an alcohol percentage-in-fuel test kit that's very inexpensive (about $5) and easy to use. Part number is 100023; any mower shop ought to be able to get one for you. A before-and-after test would tell whether he's right and the ethanol evaporates out of the blend, or he's wrong and just throwing money into the sky as the blend itself evaporates (or worse, if he's got it backwards and the gasoline evaporates out of the blend faster than the ethanol).
 
Dan, what's you're opinion of adding Marvel Mystery Oil to the fuel?

I don't really have one. Marvel Mystery Oil consists of a light-viscosity oil, mineral spirits, dye, wintergreen (for smell), and 790 PPM of a phosphorous compound. There are manufacturer claims, of course, but I don't know of data or theory to support its effective (or cost-effective) use as a steady-diet gasoline additive.
 
I don't really have one. Marvel Mystery Oil consists of a light-viscosity oil, mineral spirits, dye, wintergreen (for smell), and 790 PPM of a phosphorous compound. There are manufacturer claims, of course, but I don't know of data or theory to support its effective (or cost-effective) use as a steady-diet gasoline additive.

OK, I've been using it forever without knowing if it really does any good...looks like I'll never know....my Pop say's that's why they call 'Mystery' oil lol.
 
And I'm really curious to know your line of reasoning behind your (apparent) belief that adding 2-cycle oil to the gasoline affects its vapour pressure.
Apparently what you believe and what I know appear to be 2 different things. That's OK, we are free to disagree. But the fact is (no beliefs here, just pure fact) ethyl alcohol's vapor pressure runs around 1-1.5, depending on the specific variety in question. Oil's generally speaking, are 0.

That's one of the cool things about chemistry - when you mix different stuff sometimes their physical properties change.
 
OK, I've been using it forever without knowing if it really does any good...looks like I'll never know....my Pop say's that's why they call 'Mystery' oil lol.
MMO's a another great fuel add in this ethanol gas world, just a bit pricey for what it does, IMHO.

How much do you add - treat ratio?
 
MMO's a another great fuel add in this ethanol gas world, just a bit pricey for what it does, IMHO.

How much do you add - treat ratio?

4 oz for every 10 gallons fuel. It's less pricey if you buy the gallon jug. It's like giving Goldie a treat, he seems to like it and I figure it can't hurt.
 
Apparently what you believe and what I know appear to be 2 different things.

Maybe and maybe not. I think we probably agree more than we disagree. If we were holding a conversation wherein one question gets discussed at a time -- if the question didn't keep getting shifted and swivelled in a 3-card-monty kind of way -- we might get somewhere, but since it doesn't really affect me what you believe I'm not sure there's much point in carrying on the discussion too much further. Have another beer, eh?
drinkup.gif


ethyl alcohol's vapor pressure runs around 1-1.5, depending on the specific variety in question. Oil's generally speaking, are 0.

Agreed.
 
4 oz for every 10 gallons fuel. It's less pricey if you buy the gallon jug. It's like giving Goldie a treat, he seems to like it and I figure it can't hurt.
Try running a tank without it. Get it fully warmed up on a hot afternoon with the ambient temp 90 or better, and see what it does.

Just a little experiment.
 
I think he's probably wrong.
Re: the leave-the-cap-off-the-gas-can theory.

I can promise you he's wrong. There are several gasoline components more volatile than ethanol, particularly in winter blend fuels. Ethanol boils at 78 Centigrade, some gasoline components boil as low as 0 Centigrade. Those volatile components are there to help with cold starts. That's most of what that mechanic is evaporating from his fuel

Leaving the lid off the can also invites the fuel to absorb water from the air, which should be avoided. It can lead to phase separation, where a water/ethanol-rich layer settles to the bottom of the gas can. Not good.

As for Marvel Mystery Oil, I have used it successfully as a fuel additive to clean a fuel system. However, the MMO formulation greatly pre-dates the use of ethanol in gasoline, so that particular additive was never formulated to deal with ethanol-related problems.
 
It can lead to phase separation, where a water/ethanol-rich layer settles to the bottom of the gas can.
This probably the most potentially damaging problem in a car's fuel system where you have steel tanks and lines.
 
This probably the most potentially damaging problem in a car's fuel system where you have steel tanks and lines.

That is one problem- due to both enhanced corrosion and the possibility of sucking a water/ethanol mix into the fuel line. Another is that removing ethanol from the bulk gasoline reduces the octane rating.
 
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