aluminum vs steel flywheel for stroker

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Oldmanmopar said:
You are totally wrong about the reason for a heavy flywheel. Sure you will gain torque when the motor is engaged . It takes less motor to spin less recipricating weight. But the reason for a heavier flywheel on a stick car is for enertia. When you have the motor at 3000 to 3500 for a launch it give the motor more spinning weight. Which take alot more to slow up. This gives the car a stronger launch. Also when shifting to the next gear it keeps the recipricating mass turning,

Now when it comes to accelerating in gear the light flywheel is the way to go. For an automatic you want a light converter. I use a 8 inch . Its in gear on the launch and it doesn't take as much torque to get it spinning.

On my 4spd car I use a heavy flywheel because I like letting the clutch fly and pulling gears at higher RPM's. The motor does not die on the gear change. The flywheel keeps the motor in it torque range.

On a car that you want to accelarate in gear with a stick car Lighter is better. One reason you don't use one on a sprint car . decelerate quicker going in and accelerate faster coming off.

I tried a light flywheel on a car with 456 gears with 10 inch slicks. I had to come off at 4500 and the motor would drop to 3000 on the launch. With the heavy flywheel I could launch at 3500 and it would just pull without droping off at all . It ould also not drop off in rpm's on the shifts. The Light flywheel I would have to start over on every shift.

So there is a purposefor either. But for every day driving heavy is better. It has nothing to do with your foot. It is just easier to drive. and alot easier on clutches. You can idle out rather then ride the clutch with more throttle.

this is not rocket science it is just common sense. If you don't see it .its your loss in competing with others who know better .

I only do what works and we are usually competetive. You won't change my mind with your B.S. I have been there in all types of Racing.
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Your clutch was slipping with the heavy wheel and why it didn't drop off at all according to you....

Tell you what.....

I have seen this so many times, how much do you want to bet the lighter wheel is faster.....

I tried a light flywheel on a car with 456 gears with 10 inch slicks. I had to come off at 4500 and the motor would drop to 3000 on the launch. With the heavy flywheel I could launch at 3500 and it would just pull without droping off at all . It would also not drop off in rpm's on the shifts. The Light flywheel I would have to start over on every shift.
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IF, if this is true to the best of your recollection.... and your back talking bs and then using a sprint car as an example....
You realize you're gonna look bad right now...

1, IF, if your recollection of how you left is true... the clutch was slipping with the heavy wheel and why you supposedly had 0.0 rpm drop at launch...

2, All any of my customers have EVER had to do GO FASTER was launch anywhere from 600 to 900 rpm higher....and GUESS what... faster 60, faster 330, 660 1320 by as much as a FULL tenth thruout the run...

3, My truck, primarily used so i don't have to drag a trailer by hand and off-road so i don't have to walk.... WITH 10,000 pounds behind it and a lightened AL wheel breaks the tires loose if i hammer it off a light (without dropping or sidestepping the pedal), and AND will break the tires AGAIN during shifts if i get back to the pedal to hard....
So with the heavy wheel the truck never did that, the truck never accelerated so easy and never GOT the mpg it has with the lightened stuff....

4, WTH are you saying here, sounds like a contradiction to me
On a car that you want to accelarate in gear with a stick car Lighter is better. One reason you don't use one on a sprint car . decelerate quicker going in and accelerate faster coming off.
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You say that
With the heavy flywheel I could launch at 3500 and it would just pull without droping off at all . It would also not drop off in rpm's on the shifts. The Light flywheel I would have to start over on every shift.
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Then you say the sprint car uses no flywheel or trans so IT CAN
decelerate quicker going in and accelerate faster coming off
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. . . You are so caught up in things you really have no understanding about...

sprint cars like EVERY car wants to accel fast and decel fast, sprint cars probably have the lightest reciprocating systems of all....
Why in the HELL would you believe that a heavy wheel is helpful...

I will bet large and you WILL lose on this with a DRAG car. . .

this is not rocket science it is just common sense. If you don't see it its your loss in competing with others who know better .

I only do what works and we are usually competetive. You won't change my mind with your B.S. I have been there in all types of Racing.
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I can count how many times i have lost using only my hands and i still have fingers to spare.....
Hows that for competitive. . .

Should i get into how i am usually outclassed too....
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
It's a tuning part just like anything else.

In some situations it will help but it is not the best choice in every situation.
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IT does work better in EVERY situation...

Oldmanmopar said:
Sorry if I offended you. It just seems we have a difference of opinion. Wonder why all tractors and trucks come with heavy Flywheels? .

No brains
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Have you ever wondered..... let me take the amazement from your needing to wonder in amazement mind of WHY just such a wheel is used in big trucks with massive power plants...

Idle quality, ever wonder what the harmonics would be like transferred thru the crank of a 2200 ft lb diesel in a straight 6 configuration with a light flywheel that has as much as 20 to 1 compression hammering down on it.... I don't think so...

Now that you know flywheels are also used to mask harmonics and make idle quality better you might not make other misconceptions and think they are gospel....

You'll also notice that is also why car companies used heavy wheels instead of light wheels, idle quality. . . .
 
Just out of curiosity... Anybody feel free to answer...
If we can all agree that a flywheel is an energy storage device...
Where does the "added torque" come from with the steel flywheel?
 
The only direct comparison I've ever been involved in was putting an aluminum flywheel in a Supra turbo. Stop and go traffic took some finesse, but the car was quicker for sure.
 
yea, can i get a large popcorn and a dr. perrer please!
 
You know what i forgot about something for anyone here claiming the lighter is slower, have you ever raced a lambo, ferrari, maybe a porsche gt3....
Their flywheels and clutches are very light....super light

Amazing though i never see lambo's, porches, ferrari's and mclarens stalling all over the place, and they are so slow off the line.....right. . . . lets here the excuses
 
Ok-6 months ago I had a similar thread and NO ONE responded to it--Whats up with that-Now guy's getting heavy about Alum/Steel flywheels on this thread.There still is no conclusive responses about the alum flywheel. I have a 70 Duster with a 833 and have to change out the clutch this spring and was thinking of going with a alum flywheel ,But no -one would respond!!!!!! My Duster is a STRAIGHT street car NO TRACK time-- SO ALUM OR RE-SURFACE my steel fly wheel--I'm adding a dual disc clutch (McLeod) OH sorry motor is a NON stock 5.7 with a 150 shot of juice at W>O>T Any help guy's I would be very thankful--Steve
 
Interesting.

Acceleration of the car, and deceleration in gear. To simplify, the inertia of the car can be viewed as a load attached to the clutch disc. When the clutch is disengaged the inertia of the engine's rotating assembly, including balancer- flywheel- pressure plate- crank- rods, is on one side and the car is on the other. When you engage the clutch it slips until the two come to equilibrium.

If the rotating assembly (includes flywheel) is heavier, the engine will drop less RPM. This will make the car run smoother, start smoother, etc.

So, to get our tow rig or tractor moving i would think we would have to raise the RPM more or feather the clutch more with a lighter rotating assembly. On a tractor you definitely want the big flywheel, it will help you break through intermittent obstacles and keep you from feeling every little jerk or bump.

Lighter will accelerate quicker, decelerate quicker in gear, get better gas mileage - absolutely no argument there. Simple physics. Less inertia. Rotating mass gets you twice. You have to spin it up and carry it with you. Same reason bigger tires are not always better.

Maybe it does depend more on the combo. A bigger engine may not need as much flywheel to behave the same on a launch as a smaller engine. I'm sure car weight and gear play a big part as well, especially coming off the line.

As I said, interesting discussion.
 
swifter said:
Ok-6 months ago I had a similar thread and NO ONE responded to it--Whats up with that-Now guy's getting heavy about Alum/Steel flywheels on this thread.There still is no conclusive responses about the alum flywheel. I have a 70 Duster with a 833 and have to change out the clutch this spring and was thinking of going with a alum flywheel ,But no -one would respond!!!!!! My Duster is a STRAIGHT street car NO TRACK time-- SO ALUM OR RE-SURFACE my steel fly wheel--I'm adding a dual disc clutch (McLeod) OH sorry motor is a NON stock 5.7 with a 150 shot of juice at W>O>T Any help guy's I would be very thankful--Steve
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Never seen it, you got answers now..... But in case you didn't see it put the AL wheel in it. . . . I haven't had 1 customer ever go slower... Anyone who claims they went slower from the lighter wheel needs a driving coach.
 
I don't know how an aluminum flywheel would work in a street car. We ran an aluminum fly wheel in our midget for oval track racing. Aluminum is the only way to go for this type of racing. As you get near the corner you let of the throttle and then give it fuel to set the car, feather around the corner and at a certain point give if fuel for the straight away, repeat until the end of the race. The aluminum fly wheel and high compression dropped the RPM so you didn't have to use the brakes unless someone got in your way.

I'm thinking that driving on the street with an aluminum flywheel would be a pain in the arse due to any time you let off the gas, the engine would really slow you down, where a heavy flywheel would keep the RPM up. It could be a learned technique but in my opinion an aluminum flywheel would be troublesome.

Logically I would assume that at a steady 4500 RPM you would get the same torque and horse power whether you were running an aluminum flywheel or steel one. Incorrect shifting techniques with an aluminum flywheel would lose torque and horsepower over a steel flywheel because of a potential drop in RPM when shifting. An aluminum fly wheel will rev MUCH faster than a steel flywheel. My question would be how many 10th of a second would be gained by an aluminum flywheel and on the street is it worth it?
 
GT340 said:
I'm thinking that driving on the street with an aluminum flywheel would be a pain in the arse due to any time you let off the gas, the engine would really slow you down, where a heavy flywheel would keep the RPM up. It could be a learned technique but in my opinion an aluminum flywheel would be troublesome.
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I would agree with you on that assessment, you would have to work it pretty hard. Have you ever seen someone try to drive a Formula car for the first time. It is hilarious. The rotating mass is really low. It takes a bit of practice before you can get the car to move from a stop.

GT340 said:
Logically I would assume that at a steady 4500 RPM you would get the same torque and horse power whether you were running an aluminum flywheel or steel one. Incorrect shifting techniques with an aluminum flywheel would lose torque and horsepower over a steel flywheel because of a potential drop in RPM when shifting. An aluminum fly wheel will rev MUCH faster than a steel flywheel. My question would be how many 10th of a second would be gained by an aluminum flywheel and on the street is it worth it?
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Steady state - true, that is why the dyno sometimes lies to you (or neglects to tell you the whole truth). I used to regularly abuse a friend of mine in his 650hp 502ci Chevrolet with my little 440. You do lose torque and horsepower in transition. It takes torque to accelerate that mass. Torque*rpm = horsepower. On the street I can not see the benefit of the lighter flywheel.
 
Supershafts said:
You know what i forgot about something for anyone here claiming the lighter is slower, have you ever raced a lambo, ferrari, maybe a porsche gt3....
Their flywheels and clutches are very light....super light

Amazing though i never see lambo's, porches, ferrari's and mclarens stalling all over the place, and they are so slow off the line.....right. . . . lets here the excuses
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Seen plenty of them driven by crap drivers - so yes.

Maybe you are right - I would love to drive the same car with both when it comes time for me to buy my clutch assembly. Unfortunately I will probably have to make the decision without that benefit.
 
I ran my 410 Stoker on the street using a Centerforce Aluminim Flywheel, Centerforce Complete Clutch 3.55 gears and it never stalled or acted in the funky way that you guys are dreaming about. The car had Instant Throttle Response and I did not have any huge problems with it loosing RPM Between the shifts. Hold your foot to the floor and bang away! It revved right now & no delay. I actually loved the car with the Aluminim Flywheel. Guys here on this forum seen and heard my car in person and even drove in it with me. It hauled some *** is all I can say.
 
Supershafts said:
Never seen it, you got answers now..... But in case you didn't see it put the AL wheel in it. . . . I haven't had 1 customer ever go slower... Anyone who claims they went slower from the lighter wheel needs a driving coach.
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I agree! Learn how to drive, put your foot to the floor an row the boat!
 
GT340 said:
I don't know how an aluminum flywheel would work in a street car. We ran an aluminum fly wheel in our midget for oval track racing. Aluminum is the only way to go for this type of racing. As you get near the corner you let of the throttle and then give it fuel to set the car, feather around the corner and at a certain point give if fuel for the straight away, repeat until the end of the race. The aluminum fly wheel and high compression dropped the RPM so you didn't have to use the brakes unless someone got in your way.

I'm thinking that driving on the street with an aluminum flywheel would be a pain in the arse due to any time you let off the gas, the engine would really slow you down, where a heavy flywheel would keep the RPM up. It could be a learned technique but in my opinion an aluminum flywheel would be troublesome.

Logically I would assume that at a steady 4500 RPM you would get the same torque and horse power whether you were running an aluminum flywheel or steel one. Incorrect shifting techniques with an aluminum flywheel would lose torque and horsepower over a steel flywheel because of a potential drop in RPM when shifting. An aluminum fly wheel will rev MUCH faster than a steel flywheel. My question would be how many 10th of a second would be gained by an aluminum flywheel and on the street is it worth it?
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I have a AL wheel in my truck, and it is used for towing and off-roading, i have a close ratio set up and never does anything you say happen.

If you read thru this you'll see where the tenth is gained thruout the run, on the street the benefit is the same plus mpg..


.
 
Supershafts said:
Never seen it, you got answers now..... But in case you didn't see it put the AL wheel in it. . . . I haven't had 1 customer ever go slower... Anyone who claims they went slower from the lighter wheel needs a driving coach.
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What d ya think aluminum or steel ? watch the right foot shaft. Wander what he would gain by a aluminum. But since you have talked all your customers into aluminum I would never admit I was wrong either. You must be one of those guys that lift to shift. That would be the only way you would go faster.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSxUm2mYOpE&feature=player_detailpage"]THIS IS WHAT A LENCO 4 SPEED LOOKS LIKE...STEVE CLUKEY 70 PLYMOUTH DUSTER INCAR CAMERA COMPILATION - YouTube[/ame]
 
flywheels were made big and heavy and strong for one reason... it was to prevent what is called a "clutch explosion". which can take your foot off at the ankle or even kill you. it's the same reason there is something called a "blow-proof bellhousing"

sure you can go lighter, etc. but it's at the expense of strength and durability.

however, with today's newer alloys, aluminum is much stronger than it was in the 70's. just be careful what you are buying and if it says "SFI approved" you will probably be safer.

also make sure you use fresh bolts / clutch plate / clutch / throwout bearing and that the bolts are of the proper grade

performance notions - it is really not a big concern with a 429 c.i. stroker. that being said my evo (my son drives it) has an upgraded (lighter) flywheel and a better clutch made by a company ACT. they work fine. no loss on takeoff, it's actually better. if we had went lower in weight it would have affected the fuel/ignition curves and we would have had to reflash.

just do your research, play it safe, have fun :D
 
swifter said:
Ok-6 months ago I had a similar thread and NO ONE responded to it--Whats up with that-Now guy's getting heavy about Alum/Steel flywheels on this thread.There still is no conclusive responses about the alum flywheel. I have a 70 Duster with a 833 and have to change out the clutch this spring and was thinking of going with a alum flywheel ,But no -one would respond!!!!!! My Duster is a STRAIGHT street car NO TRACK time-- SO ALUM OR RE-SURFACE my steel fly wheel--I'm adding a dual disc clutch (McLeod) OH sorry motor is a NON stock 5.7 with a 150 shot of juice at W>O>T Any help guy's I would be very thankful--Steve
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For a straight street car you would be better off with the flywheel you have. The inertia offered by the heavier flywheel offers improved driving characteristics.

In street driving the performance potential of an aluminum flywheel will rarely be seen, couple that with the added cost......

This is a no-brainer in my opinion.
 
Could always take the steel one you got to a machine shop and have them lighten it some. Back cut and maybe some holes drilled around it in a few spots.
 
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