A question that I am not sure how to even ask...

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The DC

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Okay, this sounds crazy, and I have no doubt in reading this you'll initially roll your eyes, but I have a puzzler that defies every bit of experience that I have had with a car.

I just bought a 1962 Dodge Lancer A body. I decided to change the oil for the first time. I followed the standard process; removing the plug, dumping the old oil, oiling and swapping the oil filter, and then dropping 5 quarts [4+1 for the filter] into the oil fill at the front top of the 170 Six slant.

Easy, right?

After a while I started the engine up and got the oil light. I checked the dip stick; dry.

Now I had opened a new 5.25 container of oil, but I dropped a half quart more in to find nothing on the stick. I then opened the oils plug and only a little came out. I checked the oil filter; dry!

I called my father who advised I dump another couple of quarts, [not turn it on of course] and see if it was somehow draining out without my notice. No dice.

So here I am with 7 quarts of oil in the engine, nothing in the oil pan, none flushed into the filter for the short time that I had the engine on, and nothing spilling onto the paper I lay below it to discover where the leak was [I was pretty desperate for any answer at that point; seven quarts would have rivaled exxon's last spill].

Because of the baffle I cant see down into the case, nor run a straw or small hose to see if [somehow] it had gotten stuck in the valve cover case.

I am stumped. Is it possible that the oil somehow isn't draining into the oil pan from the head?

If so, beside pulling the valve cover off and risking a deluge over the sides of my old block, is there any wisdom out there for a situation that I frankly do not understand, but has clearly happened?

Let me clarify; 7 quarts total-
no oil on the stick-
none spilling from the oil pan-
none made its way into the oil filter-
no spillage, leaks stains, or anything that fits in with my experience of physical laws of science and nature.

Is it possible that this old neglected engine sludged up that much?

Anyway to test?

Pretty confused...
 
Pull the drain plug and let it drain out to see what you have. If you have 7 plus quarts it could be the wrong dipstick.

If there is no oil in the pan it sounds like it has to be a sludge problem. Pull the valve cover off and see what you have.
 
LOL, that motor is like Dr. Who's phone booth; bigger on the inside than it is on the outside!

I have no idea what kind of voodoo you're dealing with there, but I can't wait to hear what's going on!
 
Walk away, Come back tomorrow morn and find more than full reading on the stcick. The oil drains are very clogged but it will run down over enough time. Gravity at work.
 
sludge in the top end? not allowing the oil to drain back into the pan? if you can, see if the valve cover is full of oil.
 
I admit, I have never seen anthing like this either.

I had pulled the drain plug earlier, as I stated in the post, but only a half quart came back out; most of it fresh oil. The dip stick is as dry as my ideas.

After posting I went to get a wide pan to put under the car to catch the oil once I pull the cover off, to avoid a BP incident in my state. I've left the car for hours now and gravity isn't a match for whatever is keeping the oil from draining down to the pan. Like I said, the stick is dry.

I can't see inside from the spill cap because of the baffle. I did try probing with a straw, hoping to strike some oil and then use the technique to employ a pump to draw off some oil before removing the head, but I could only get it past the baffle a few inches and got only limited amounts of sludge on it; no fresh oil.

I have never heard of an engine being so sludge filled to obstruct oil, but physics and experience has offered me no other idea, let alone solution. The volume of the head might be able to hold that much oil, and the compression of the engine should have at least pumped it down, even past heavy sludge, I would have thought. This has really stumped me; a hard way to get back into mopars!

Are there any other possibilities that you have encountered?

Is it possible for sludge to be so thick as to do this or am I missing the obvious?

What is the solution regarding heavy sludge, if so?

Thanks for the interest. After so many years of turning wrenches, this stumped me and shook my confidence. I have never evenheard of anything like this happening before, no matter how old the car.

Again thanks,

DC
 
Is it possible for sludge to be so thick as to do this or am I missing the obvious?

On a 51 year old engine?!? Yes. You're going to have to pull the valve cover and see what's going on.

What is the solution regarding heavy sludge, if so?

There is currently another thread active about a sludged up motor and different opinions and ideas of how to clean it out. I would try to find that thread. Lots of good ideas. Good luck!
 
any pics? where did you dump the oil? hopefully not the transmission tube? This is a slant 6 car correct? Lawrence
 
If it was running ok before the oil change and the valve cover was not holding the engine oil , then a plugged oil return is not the issue . VDART may have the best possible daignosis , maybe you did fill the trans with engine oil . but really theres really not many places for 7 qts of oil to hide in any engine , i cant wait to hear th outcome of this one
 
A slant six valve cover will hold a lot of oil. There could be more than a couple of quarts already drained down that wouldn't appear on the stick.
I suspect you will find what looks like black candle wax caked up on everything under the cover.
 
yes, I have seen engines clogged in this fashion, more than a few, early Chevy's mostly.

If you put the oil in the engine, it is not leaking, or pouring out the tail pipe, not registering on the stick and the oil light is on. There really is no where else it could be.

I would jack up the back of the car to get the oil going in one direction, pull the valve cover and clear the obstruction clean/rod/ scrape it out trying to minimize what goes back in the engine.
After you get the heavy stuff out. There are engine flushes, gunk makes one, And some shops have a machine that can do it with a chemical. I have mixed feelings about this, but haven't had bad experiences using this equipment either.
 
Had this happen to a poly 318,Pulled the valve covers and most of the oil came spilling out.Used coat hangers to open the drain back holes. Never thought a slant valve cover could hold 7 quarts though....
 
I would just pull the valve cover off.
If you don't want to do that, then i would try some compressed air in the valve cover to see if it forces the oil down.
Then pull the valve cover and clean all of the gunk that's in there.
Let's see some pics of what's under the valve cover......
 
In my 1964 225 Slant 6 with a WIX 51515 oil filter change I use just over 6 quarts to be just below Full on the dipstick.
I am afraid that when you start to unbolt the valve cover, you will have a huge mess. Unless you filled the transmission with oil???:wack:
 
Pull the valve cover off. You're going to have to do it anyway.
 
Thanks.

There are only two dipsticks for this car, the one on the driver's side for oil, and the one on the passenger, coming about of the tranny for the auto.

I have a feeling that you are right about the sludge.
 
In my 1964 225 Slant 6 with a WIX 51515 oil filter change I use just over 6 quarts to be just below Full on the dipstick.
I am afraid that when you start to unbolt the valve cover, you will have a huge mess. Unless you filled the transmission with oil???:wack:

No, the tranny fluid goes in the tranny box filler tube. I filled the oil access on the top of the valve head; its the breather access.

I'm surprised that your car takes 6 quarts as the shop manual and owner's manual stipulates 4+1, but maybe the blocks are different? I don't now, I don't have a '64.

In any case, the oil went into the fill but has not spilled into the il[an, so something is clogging it up.

Thanks for the help...
 
On a 51 year old engine?!? Yes. You're going to have to pull the valve cover and see what's going on.



There is currently another thread active about a sludged up motor and different opinions and ideas of how to clean it out. I would try to find that thread. Lots of good ideas. Good luck!

Thanks much for the suggestion. I'll head over there to that thread. I've never seen sludge that bad, but then again, my family was always big about maintaining cars per schedules. I hadn't bought a used car in quite a while, so you may be on target.

I'll pull the head this week, weather permitting. I did run a probe into the valve cover, even past the baffle, but got nothing back. Then again, there's a lot of square inches under that cover to hide a world of oil and sins...
 
any pics? where did you dump the oil? hopefully not the transmission tube? This is a slant 6 car correct? Lawrence

No, don't worry...

The tranny tube is on the other side of the block, connected to the tranny.

The oil access is still the factory breather plug with "OIL" stanped twice, back to back, on the top.

Yes, to your other question, she's a 170, Slant Six, 2.8 liter.

Thanks for the concern...
 
If it was running ok before the oil change and the valve cover was not holding the engine oil , then a plugged oil return is not the issue . VDART may have the best possible daignosis , maybe you did fill the trans with engine oil . but really theres really not many places for 7 qts of oil to hide in any engine , i cant wait to hear th outcome of this one

Yea, I agree, as she was running alright prior to this first oil change. But the oil went somewhere.

As for the amount, this is a big block and could hold it, it just shouldn't be put into it. A friend, a shade tree mechanic, suggested that I add kerosine, but I'm thinking it better to pull the valve cover off and see what i can clean before I try thinning things out to dump deeper inside.

Those who have suggested that it will be a mess, I agree and do not look forward to the task, but weather permitting, I'll crack her open and see whether the "candle wax" is clogging things up.

If I can get her open, and if I an clean out some sludge, I'll see what the recommended "sludge thread" suggests before trying the old kerosine ploy. I am concerned about how much that would affect the seals and gaskets in a car this old.

I know that older cars ran on that, but that was almost a century before on a different block, and this one has seen many a year and mile...

Suggestions?
 
The suspense is killin' me! I kinda like the idea of raising the rear of the car so when ya get stuff coming out of the valve cover
at least SOME of it will drain in a limited area. It might be easier to raise the passenger side and put that wide pan under the starter. Hell, it's gonna be a colossal mess wherever it goes anyway.
Good luck, and HURRY UP!!! (LOL)

BC
 
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