Interesting VIN number on 68 Barracuda

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jimharvard

jimharvard

JimHarvard
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to all my fellow FABO members and mopar collectors - i ran across something that i wanted to share here on FABO.

Gateway Classic Cars in Indianapolis, Indiana has this car advertised on their web site. they had originally posted a picture of the dashboard VIN # for this car on the web site, however, that picture has now been removed.

i would like for someone here at FABO to call or email Gateway Classic Cars and ask them to tell you the VIN number on the dash for this car. if someone here does do that, please post what they told you and then add any comments that you like.

thanks in advance for anyone who takes up this request.
 

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Ya know whenever you post ANYTHING that involves another website, it's ALWAYS more helpful if you would provide a link, so we don't have to spend time searching for it

http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/indianapolis/1968/plymouth/barracuda-S495.html

Link to the VIN

http://images.gatewayclassiccars.com/carpics/NDY/495/495zz.jpg

24x2kn4.jpg


BH23F8B315798

B--Plymouth

H--High (price class)

23--two door hardtop

F--318 2bbl

8--1968

B--Hamtramck, Mich

So far I see nothing out of the ordinary?

Now the VIN is posted right there with the ad. What is so "interesting?" Maybe they originally posted the VIN to the wrong vehicle, and edited it?
 
Look normal to me.....Maybe your wondering about the shape of the "8"? That's normal.
Hmmmmm not sure what your needing...
 
Looks like it has Form S badges.

Do they state it's a clone?

They've had some pretty darn nice looking cars, but I have no idea of the build quality.
 
YY1 said:
Looks like it has Form S badges.

Do they state it's a clone?

They've had some pretty darn nice looking cars, but I have no idea of the build quality.
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Only the Fender Tag knows.
 
oneofmany...

of all the responses, i am most interested in your observation. you stated: "23 is notchback, s/b 29" could you elaborate a bit for my fellow FABO readers.
 
i am not trying to be "crypic" or "mysterious" in this post, however, i am trying to present only "facts" as to my observations.

two of the following pictures show the VIN numbers of the two 1968 FASTBACK Barracudas that i own. the third picture shows the VIN number of a 1969 M-Code COUPE Barracuda.

the VINs on my FASTBACK Barracudas include the body style designation code "BH29." the VIN for the M-Code COUPE shows the body style designation code "BH23."

according to information supplied for the red 68 FASTBACK in question, the VIN code for that car is "BH23" which appears to be the VIN code for a COUPE not a FASTBACK.
 

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That car has had the vin swapped from a coupe. The rivets look like worn originals, so it was probably a complete dash swap.

And honestly anyone here that didn't catch that should be ashamed...vin breakdown is Mopar 101.
 
451 cuda...

thank you for saying what went through my mind the minute i saw this car.

i sent an email to gateway classics bringing this issue to their attention, however, they did not respond.

to all the FABO community, i would strongly advise you to NEVER consider buying ANY car that had a significant VIN number question. as an attorney, if i had a client that came to me with this car, i would advise him to take the car back to the seller and get his money back. in any state that has a law against altering vehicle VIN numbers, i do not believe you could register and/or obtain a title to this car.

if i were gateway classics' attorney, i would advise them not to sell this car unless they have obtained some kind of "opinion letter" from the Indiana Department of Motor Vehicles.
 
back in bout 87 or 8, I stumbled on a 70 challenger rt. he "kid" ( bout 30) I got it from new it from high school/ said it was just a 318 car. yep, it could be bought. cheap.... the dash vin coded for 318. could not get the hood up while looking at it. letter found no fender tag. it had all the things to indicate more than a 318 car. someone had swaped out the entire dash years back just to have a "nicer " dash pad. !!!!
yep it was a 440-6 car. I had the #'s engine/trans sitting in a 68 gtx.

I traded it for a 66 hemi coronet roller. the "dude: that traded me was know n the mopar circles to manu. vins.
 
jimharvard said:
451 cuda...

thank you for saying what went through my mind the minute i saw this car.

i sent an email to gateway classics bringing this issue to their attention, however, they did not respond.

to all the FABO community, i would strongly advise you to NEVER consider buying ANY car that had a significant VIN number question. as an attorney, if i had a client that came to me with this car, i would advise him to take the car back to the seller and get his money back. in any state that has a law against altering vehicle VIN numbers, i do not believe you could register and/or obtain a title to this car.

if i were gateway classics' attorney, i would advise them not to sell this car unless they have obtained some kind of "opinion letter" from the Indiana Department of Motor Vehicles.
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Don't know that they care! Seems a reputable dealer would vet the car. The beaming write up on the car is interesting to say the least. The term "Restoration ", as I know it is restoring an original car to its former glory! I fully understand taking a plain Jain and enhancing it as this is an accepted practice to get more value. Maybe he back halfed a fast back onto the original notch ( doubt it), just more likely a stupid mistake by someone that either does not care or does not understand!
 
my only goal with the noted red barracuda was to bring a potential legal issue to the attention of fellow FABO members. as the values of collector cars continue to increase either due to the rarity of a particular car or market fluctuations, the opportunities and temptation for misrepresenting various vehicles for financial gain also increase. after 28 years of practicing law i have learned one important lesson above all - it is ALWAYS better to avoid a lawsuit in the first place than it is to have to go to court to correct a mistake.

i would urge everyone to inspect and investigate any car they intend to purchase as completely as they can before they hand someone a handful of cash or a check. and remember, it doesn't matter how nice or valuable a car is - if the GOVERNMENT says there's something wrong with it and won't issue a title or a license plate, all you're going to end up with is a VERY expensive lawn ornament or "plaything" to drive in a parking lot or on and off of a car trailer to and from a car show.
 
jimharvard said:
my only goal with the noted red barracuda was to bring a potential legal issue to the attention of fellow FABO members. as the values of collector cars continue to increase either due to the rarity of a particular car or market fluctuations, the opportunities and temptation for misrepresenting various vehicles for financial gain also increase. after 28 years of practicing law i have learned one important lesson above all - it is ALWAYS better to avoid a lawsuit in the first place than it is to have to go to court to correct a mistake.

i would urge everyone to inspect and investigate any car they intend to purchase as completely as they can before they hand someone a handful of cash or a check. and remember, it doesn't matter how nice or valuable a car is - if the GOVERNMENT says there's something wrong with it and won't issue a title or a license plate, all you're going to end up with is a VERY expensive lawn ornament or "plaything" to drive in a parking lot or on and off of a car trailer to and from a car show.
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You're sharp eyes spotted the issue but why didn't you just contact the seller to confirm that something wasn't right and post the confirmation all in one post?
 
The car has probably been registered and driven here in Indiana like that
for years.
The BMV here in Indiana doesn't look at vin plates or even your car.
State police out of state inspections prior to Indiana registering only checks for non matching title vin #s to vehicle vin plate #s.
Not incorrect vin plate to vehicle on old cars.
They do not concern themselves with ensuring you are registering a numbers
matching car in any way.
They are concerned about signatures being in the proper place, proving identity and collecting revenue during a title transfer.
 
ssba said:
The car has probably been registered and driven here in Indiana like that
for years.
The BMV here in Indiana doesn't look at vin plates or even your car.
State police out of state inspections prior to Indiana registering only checks for non matching title vin #s to vehicle vin plate #s.
Not incorrect vin plate to vehicle on old cars.
They do not concern themselves with ensuring you are registering a numbers
matching car in any way.
They are concerned about signatures being in the proper place, proving identity and collecting revenue during a title transfer.
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That's a shame!

Education is everything when buying a classic, the authorities don't seem to care. Neither do some profit minded dealers or at least this one at it would seem.
 
H22A4 said:
You're sharp eyes spotted the issue but why didn't you just contact the seller to confirm that something wasn't right and post the confirmation all in one post?
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He did.

jimharvard said:
i sent an email to gateway classics bringing this issue to their attention, however, they did not respond.
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When they didn't respond, he brought it to our attention as a learning example. I, for one, appreciate the lesson. I'm not that knowledgeable where Mopar VIN numbers are concerned, so anytime I can learn something new, I appreciate it. Thank you!
 
Chances are good they were completely unaware of the past vin swap.
If they did know they probably wouldn't have advertised the vin plate
so proudly in their advertisement.
They are used car salesmen trying to make a buck not car theifs or car historians
intentionally preforming fraud.
You can bet on the fact their paperwork is in order with the state.
It is up to the buyer to know how to buy a legit used car.
I for one think the laws are strick enough as it is and don't feel I need more
intervention on our old cars from the government than we already have now.
The BMV can be a large enough problem as it is when you want to buy an old car
and the owner has died or lost the title.
 
65LoveAffair said:
He did.



When they didn't respond, he brought it to our attention as a learning example. I, for one, appreciate the lesson. I'm not that knowledgeable where Mopar VIN numbers are concerned, so anytime I can learn something new, I appreciate it. Thank you!
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Yes he did contact the seller but he didn't reveal that detail until a day later (post 11) in the thread. He was clearly leading folks down a path we eventually got to but he wasn't completely forthright in sharing what he already knew when he created the thread.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's bringing it to our attention but he chose an indirect method to get to the point.
 
Not uncommon for a lawyer to take the long way around to a point.
Sorry Jim I couldn't resist the set up for a joke.
 
I don't know??? If you read their disclaimer at the bottom:

"This vehicle is being sold AS-IS, WHERE-IS, with no warranty, expressed, written or implied. The Seller shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness, or defects herein, nor is responsible for any omissions or errors in advertising and therefore makes no warranty in connection therewith. No allowance or set aside will be made on account of any incorrectness, imperfection, defect or damage. Any descriptions or representations are for identification purposes only and are not to be construed as a warranty of any type. It is the responsibility of the buyer to have thoroughly inspected the vehicle, to their satisfaction to the condition and value, prior to purchase. The seller shall and will make every reasonable effort to disclose any known defects associated with this vehicle at the buyer's request prior to the close of sale. Seller assumes no responsibility for any repairs regardless of any oral statements about the vehicle, post sale. - See more at: http://www.gatewayclassiccars.com/indianapolis/1968/plymouth/barracuda-S495.html#sthash.dwhHTh1p.dpuf"

They clearly claim no responsibility for anything associated with this car "The Seller shall not be responsible for the correct description, authenticity, genuineness, or defects herein, nor is responsible for any omissions or errors in advertising and therefore makes no warranty in connection therewith."

Or am I reading this wrong??? Please advise....................

Treblig
 
66fyssh said:
lol, I was thinking the same thing...just couldn't bring myself to put it out there!!
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I was waiting for somone else to come to that conclusion to then agree with them about how smart we are.


Gotta build the billable hours!
 
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