Stirring up a hornets nest

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I have the hypo set up minus the muffler. Would any of you know the size and length muffler I need. Also any thoughts about which muffler I should be looking at
I have the resonator
Looking for the sound I remember from when the cars were new
 
Barbie
yes If first gear was the limit of your driving experience, then each of these engine could be geared to take off at the same torque level, which would then feel very similar. The problem comes when you get past the stall speed and thru the rest of the gear, to reach second gear.
For instance; say we have a 273 and a 360; that they are each in a same weight car, both have the same automatic, same tires and an 1800stall TC.
So lets start with the 360/320hp.Lets say it makes 160 ftlbs at stall and is pumping through a 3.23 gear. Well 160 x 3.23 = 517 ftlb to the axles.
Next we have the high-winding 273-4. Lets say it makes 118 ftlbs at 1800stall. to make it feel like the 360, it will also have to hit the 517 ftlb mark. so 517/118 =4.38s.
So these two will both feel exactly the same at exactly 1800 rpm.After that the 273 will wind out much faster, and perhaps the 360 struggles to keep up. And then the 273 hits second , and the torque output falls back into the basement, and the 360 which is just now coming into it's own, whizzes on by. The 360 hits 60mph still in first gear at 5900 rpm. The 273, shifted at 45. his rpm fell from 6000 to 3550, and he is now struggling to get out of that deep hole.At 60 he will just be coming alive at 4700 rpm; and the race is long over, cuz we are about to speed.
But you said not racing.
Well ok, Do you wanna keep the 4.38s behind the 273?Probably not. You might want to hit the hi-way occasionally. So 3.55s? Sure let's put 3.55s in both of them.
So cruise rpm at all speeds will be the same. So lets say you are in no hurry,and take both of these cars side by side to 30% throttle. Pick a number, any %number. Which one will get to 35 mph sooner. Oh you don't care right, Allright then which one will have to be driven harder to get to 60 mph, to merge in traffic? Oh you don't care right? Alright then, which one will use less gas to go from here to there.Oh now you care?
If not for racing,why do we build bigger smallblocks. Well I think we build bigger small blocks for lotsa reasons. Some want to smoke the tires to 65 mph. Some want to cruise at 1800 rpm but still have some giddy-up.Some want to drop the hammer at 35 in second and beat the yellow light.Some build 'em cuz it costs the same as a smaller engine.Some want to slide every corner they see.Some want to come up behind a slowpoke and stab it in top gear and hit 85 as they pass his front door.Some build 'em cuz they just always wanted more than a teener, and some just want what they want.

I have this memory from a very long time ago, and I know I don't have enough years left in me nor the money...This is not a poke at the 273. This is something part memory, part imagination, part desire.... I'll tell you about it.
I can imagine a small engine in a heavy car. I imagine it with really tall gears.I imagine it with about a 2400TC.I see it with a 2bbl, hi C/R a short cam and a willingness to work hard. I see myself hitting the gas, and waiting, and listening and watching. I have no tach, no gauges, a full tank of gas,and nothing but open road. My little engine is blasting a sweet tune out the dual straight-pipes.I am waving to all the smiling people,who are watching. And waiting. And listening. When she hits about 2800, she shifts, and everybody sighs, as the little engine says "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can." And now we are at 37mph, back at 2400ish, and the people are disappearing in the mirrors.With my foot still in the carburetor, I reach over and grab a slug of A&W.Yep those pipes sure are singing a sweet song. Life is good . The windows are down, the sun is shining, and the speedo is slowly creeping to it's destination. Soon she will be shifting again, but I'm kicking back listening, waiting, watching.I got nowhere to go I just wanna go. Ah 62 mph here comes the shift right on time. Shall we go some more or are we done. I think I can, I think I can...................I think I can.

I see it as a 273 in a big boat Chrysler 4dr hardtop with power everything. Yeppers power everything
 
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AJ, I get your point, but I would really enjoy finding an A&W and just cruise in. I have had the really fast cars, but my formula S is going to be a fun car. It will never see the strip as long as I on it anyway. I can appreciate the muscle cars from the past and even some of the new cars of today. Hope everyone can see my point of view. Just a great looking, awesome sounding car to cruise around and maybe even catch a car show on occasion.
Thanks for everyone's opinion.
 
I have the hypo set up minus the muffler. Would any of you know the size and length muffler I need. Also any thoughts about which muffler I should be looking at
I have the resonator
Looking for the sound I remember from when the cars were new

Are U talking about the sound from the very Early 65's when the mufflers were straight though? Or the sound from the later 65's when they went to the reverse flow mufflers? Since I had one of the first 65 Darts (Brads Motors, Fall River Mass.) with the 273 4bbl Charger motor with the Black tip Resonators & Straight though... Since that's the sound i like & remember, I use a muffler from Summit... I can get U the part number if you might be interested? I'm at Dunkin Donuts now so I don't have that info in reach... The Summit muffler is an inch or 2 shorter then factory spec but does fit ... In/out diameter is correct... Mine is pictured... Recomend Band Clamps... ⚓
20150704_100315.jpg
 
AJ, I get your point, but I would really enjoy finding an A&W and just cruise in. I have had the really fast cars, but my formula S is going to be a fun car. It will never see the strip as long as I on it anyway. I can appreciate the muscle cars from the past and even some of the new cars of today. Hope everyone can see my point of view. Just a great looking, awesome sounding car to cruise around and maybe even catch a car show on occasion.
Thanks for everyone's opinion.
I'm with YOU on that.... I love my 273 Commando !!!!!!
 
Thanks Cliff. The part of the country I live in would prefer going to krispy cream. Not a fan of Dunkin donuts, but you enjoy your morning.
Thanks for the info. I can measure the inlet and outlet, just need the length mainly. If you have a part number that would be great. I had almost decided to pick up a turbo muffler locally. Met someone locally who recommend using one
his car sounds great, but not nearly stock. I really don't care for glass packs either. Funny how we change in life.
Thanks again for the info.
 
I have purchased the resonator, but is chrome, not black. Hoping for good weather Wednesday so I can get back to work on my car. I'm not sure taking a part time job after I retired was all that smart.
 
for the sake of conversation, would not the " feel of your pants" power, which we are talking here, NOT racing...... would it not be pretty similar between all these SB. the difference we would get ( assuming the same condition, similar compressions, cam of each engine), be in rear gears, distributor curve, tune of carb. and perhaps the ratios of the trans????? ...

Yes, You can not convince me that 20 cu in will make much difference "equalizing" as you have said. Racing is a whole different animal. Ability to tune alone, can put a 318 over a 360 given the right combination.
 
When I was 20 it was about racing. Now at 64 it's more about just cruising, making new friends and enjoying life. I do enjoy going to a Mopar show with drag racing and car show. Recently I've had more fun at the swap meet finding a few odd items that are in better shape than I have at home.
 
... I see a lot of all this, is which group you fall into???. the old school mindset of building a good running fun to drive hotrod for as fewer $$ as possible?.... or the I have $$ and I want all the streetable power I can get, and can afford the best parts $$$$ and a stroker etc...????????

Most of us grew up poor, or not a lot of disposable income. You are kind of right but, when I was younger, I believed all the hype and new "advances" people would tout. Then I got to know some "Stock" and "Super Stock" class racers. Before you were allowed to port heads and mess with your stock internals. It opened my eyes to what was possible with a stock well machined engine. They simply flowed everything and picked the best flowing heads and Carbs and got real good machine work to finish them off. That was it. 10 sec flat with a "Super Stock" low compression 350 in an early Camaro. His friend had a "Stock" class 340 Duster, not too far behind. And you think you need aftermarket heads, stroker crank and all new internals to do the same??? Why? I had a 273 that had quality machine work done, and went from 2 barrel, to 4 barrel, to 340 heads, cam, intake and Carb. All with the same 10.5 Forged shortblock. By the end it was Amazing! And it was my Daily Driver. It went 10 years and 200K on the shortblock and was only pulled because gas was not good enough to run it anymore. Put your money into the best machine work you can afford first. Make wise and realistic choices. You do not have to spend a lot of $$$. With Mopar it is all Good.
 
That is awesome. The only thing I would like to do to my 273 commando would be to have it balanced and blue printed.
Other than complete this project and be able to get it out of the garage without pushing, I think that would be awesome.
After retiring though, I don't believe I would have the funds for that type of machine work. Then again, I haven't checked to see how much it would cost. Now I'm thinking again, you know that isn't a good thing
 
Thanks Mike. There is a Mopar restoration, machine shop close by. May have to visit him while I am trying to finish floor pans and paint. Work today and tomorrow and off Wednesday. Supposed to be dry and warm
sounds like floor pans will be going in.
 
Thanks Cliff. The part of the country I live in would prefer going to krispy cream. Not a fan of Dunkin donuts, but you enjoy your morning.
Thanks for the info. I can measure the inlet and outlet, just need the length mainly. If you have a part number that would be great. I had almost decided to pick up a turbo muffler locally. Met someone locally who recommend using one
his car sounds great, but not nearly stock. I really don't care for glass packs either. Funny how we change in life.
Thanks again for the info.

Okay... if that's all you want... 20 inches from inlet tip to outlet tip... 2-1/4 ID both ends... Original Muffler offset at one end...
273-4bblMuf.JPG
 
what rear gears are in your S? I had 3.55's and it was a great car. I blew the 7.25 SG and went to whatever I could find over the weekend which ended up being a 2.76 or a 2.93. Man, that car never was the same. sure it was fast but it was no longer quick, not fun unless you drove to Vegas. I believe the 273-4 was made for 3.55-4.56 gears to overcome the soggy bottom end of a small displacement V8. Worked wonders on this car.
 
what rear gears are in your S? I had 3.55's and it was a great car. I blew the 7.25 SG and went to whatever I could find over the weekend which ended up being a 2.76 or a 2.93. Man, that car never was the same. sure it was fast but it was no longer quick, not fun unless you drove to Vegas. I believe the 273-4 was made for 3.55-4.56 gears to overcome the soggy bottom end of a small displacement V8. Worked wonders on this car.

My 4 speed S has 3.55's !!! The only way to fly with the small displacement 273-4 ⚓
 
Mine is an automatic transmission. I drove an 18 wheeler to long early in life. Most of my earlier cars were 4 speed, but today the automatic will be great. On occasion I would like a 4 speed, just like on occasion I would like to get in a big truck and head to California or new England.
Then I come back to reality and enjoy my part time job and being home with my wife, kids and granddaughter
 
Mine is an automatic transmission. I drove an 18 wheeler to long early in life. Most of my earlier cars were 4 speed, but today the automatic will be great. On occasion I would like a 4 speed, just like on occasion I would like to get in a big truck and head to California or new England.
Then I come back to reality and enjoy my part time job and being home with my wife, kids and granddaughter
Sometimes I wish mine was automatic.... So I went and bought an automatic JK Jeep... Its nice when I'm feeling lazy in my retired life.... Then I jump into my 6 speed manual 09 Challenger with heated seats and powered Everything... Or my 65 cuda with Manual Everything when I need a workout... Life is good!!! Even at my office at Dunking Donuts... Playing on my computer or now new Tablet... Not missing New England at all... Loving Arizona lifestyle.... (Drunk on Coffee)
 
Thanks for muffler information cliff. I miss Arizona as well. I've been in 48 states and a lot of Canada helping set up some businesses. Sometimes I miss traveling, but really enjoy being home with my family.
 
I will offer my opinion on using and alternative engine and drive train in the early A bodies. As I have choose to do this. I'm using a 2.4 from a SRT4 neon as a starting point. The motor will be no where near stock. Pushing about around 530 to the wheel on pump gas and mid 5s on race gas. You can see all the details in my build thread. Pro touring 10K.
What seems to be an easy task is any thing but easy. Every piece on my car is Fabricated. motor mounts, Oil pan, Intake manifold, Twin scroll turbo manifold. You name it there is not one stock bolt on piece to make this work. So my advise is unless you y
have the fabrication skills to do this kind of 1 off build stick with what works and just have fun with the car. If I where to add up my time just in fabrication it would be well north of 10K just for the fab work so far. Parts and material would still be an added cost beyond the 10K . It will be neat when done. But its a monumental task.
 
Although I have no desire to do what you are, I would love to see some pictures
 
Really, in an Early A street car. You would need slicks to hold a stock class 360 with stock heads.
I have a very fast small block Dart, and a nice 67 Barracuda "S" 383 car as well. [10.60's thru the exhaust] Both are fun to drive, but for me it is time to build another Dart 66 GT car which will be 87 octane fuel injected 360. I want to jump on the "e-way" and wind up somewhere just to have fun and not worry about "fuel & heat" and all that goes along with Horse power! So you do what feels right for you...do not let others influence you into doing something outside your comfort zone! All is good! Enjoy the 273, heck...all engines are getting smaller now anyhow!
 
So many people try to get one to build a car their way. Me too. I always tell them to give me the money to build it that way and they always shut up. Its your car build it the way you want.
Comments invited and welcome

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