So....What is YOUR opinion on VIN swaps ?

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Kern Dog

Kern Dog

Build your car to handle.
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I see this becoming a hot topic again. Some people that I respect seem to have no problem with it but it rubs me the wrong way. They claim that they are not doing it to cars that will be misrepresented or sold but what happens in the future? Owners die, cars get sold and new owners may be thinking that they have a legitimate title and history when they have a fake.
Nobody that I have known has done this to any Hemi or 440-6 car. I'm talking about regular enthusiasts with cheaper A body cars.
One guy claimed to have a car that was too rusty to save but had current registration. He bought another car from a junkyard that wouldn't give him a title.
Another likes to buy 1974-76 Dusters and Dart Sports to convert to 70-71 Dusters and 71 Demons.
I have some experience with metalwork. It isn't hard to cut out numbers and patch them into another car place. My understanding is that ANY tampering with a VIN is a federal offense. What about the people with E body cars that get their dash pad restored? The VIN tag gets removed for that kind of work.
I have owned cars that I bought without a title. In this regulation rich climate of California, it isn't that difficult to get a title. Even if you get a car that has no VIN, the state issues an alternate VIN that is attached somewhere else.
 
Kern Dog said:
I see this becoming a hot topic again. Some people that I respect seem to have no problem with it but it rubs me the wrong way. They claim that they are not doing it to cars that will be misrepresented or sold but what happens in the future? Owners die, cars get sold and new owners may be thinking that they have a legitimate title and history when they have a fake.
Nobody that I have known has done this to any Hemi or 440-6 car. I'm talking about regular enthusiasts with cheaper A body cars.
One guy claimed to have a car that was too rusty to save but had current registration. He bought another car from a junkyard that wouldn't give him a title.
Another likes to buy 1974-76 Dusters and Dart Sports to convert to 70-71 Dusters and 71 Demons.
I have some experience with metalwork. It isn't hard to cut out numbers and patch them into another car place. My understanding is that ANY tampering with a VIN is a federal offense. What about the people with E body cars that get their dash pad restored? The VIN tag gets removed for that kind of work.
I have owned cars that I bought without a title. In this regulation rich climate of California, it isn't that difficult to get a title. Even if you get a car that has no VIN, the state issues an alternate VIN that is attached somewhere else.
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Kern, maybe the rules have changed, used to be a law, a legal business( i.e. a body shop, or a collision repair center...) was the only ones allowed to legally change a VIN... As far as I still know, the CHP( or the DMV..) needs to do , an physical inspection. My '98 Taurus was totalled out, with 86 k on the odo, I had to do a lamp/ brake/ smog cert trio, had an actual DMV employee do their job, and check the VIN...
I understand completely, your thoughts on effects,on the hobby. Someone tried to sell me a 69 Camaro as a SS, when it was a basic sport coupe. And I worry about that ,too... It's why I buy Scamps, Dart / 6 models, to hot rod.
 
It's a bad deal and there is too much greed in the Hobby now. Glad I am not involved in the hobby any more than I am now. I got to enjoy these cars when none of this was an issue and if someone did swap a Vin it was so they could enjoy the car...

JW
 
I can see the point of why people do it, and have heard arguments that make sense both ways, but i personally think it's wrong and illegal.
I sure wouldn't want to buy a car that a V.I.N. has been changed no matter what the reason is.
How many people would?
 
This is a double edged sword. Don't get me wrong, VIN swap is VIN swap. But nobody would ever blink an eye if someone stuck a /6 VIN on a 318 car, (because the dash was gone etc.), in order to get it back on the road and enjoy it. The reason, nobody is going to be looking for body stampings, and it's not a "coveted" model. In fact, many out there may already be like this and the owners have no idea and don't really care either. Many parts have been switched throughout the years. But like I said, you buy a /6 car to build your way, the search stops at the title, not the body numbers.

Come on guys, go check your slants! Maybe you'll find you have a 340 car. :)
 
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I suppose I'm kinda on the fence depending on WHY it is being done and on WHAT it is being done on. If say, one has his grandfathers car bought new in '69, and the salt belt
or an accident makes it unfeasible to repair. Now you come across a body that got retired from a racing career, no title, the dash & tag are gone....would it be abhorrent to
restore that body, fill it with Your interior/dash/drivetrain/all useable exterior trim&body and transfer the VIN ? I would tend to side w/the guy reviving his grandpaps car.
On the OTHER hand, I know exactly why it is a dangerous policy, i've seen it first-hand the shi**y shady greedy crackpots that crawl out of the woodwork. I remember so
vividly seeing a total rusted out basket-case of a 'cuda on a trailer at the 'Nats for something ridiculous like 30K 'cause of the VIN in like '90-'91, don't know if it ever sold,
but don't take much imagination what probably happened if it did. Buying a perfectly sound 318 'cuda & turning it into a 440-6 or HEMI car, is criminal, but it has already
happened. So other than a few who actually got caught, changing/adding leeway for it, not much is going to change anyway.....except now You can revive Papap's car legal.
 
doesnt really matter what i think, it is against the law of the land...plain and simple
from that point if view, the reason behind it doesnt matter
 
I know about a car that a friend had. It had a lien on the title making it basically unregisterable to anyone other than the title owner unless cleared by the bank. Car was sold for parts anyway. This car is a true R/T. Car sat for a bit and eventually a 318 car of the same model was bought out of a yard and the VIN ended up in the R/T and put back on the road in the early 90's. This car is still currently plated and on the road. And no it's not mine. But swaps do happen the other way around from high pedigree to base model. Ironically , it's now "cloned" into an R/T
 
My opinion is, a VIN swap, is in fact, against the law.
 
VIN swaps are fake news, they never happen.

No-one has ever done it. All 340 Demons are legit. Every Hemi Cuda is a Hemi Cuda. Anyone who says they've seen or heard of a VIN swap is a liar.
 
Internet opinions are all over the place.

If you want the real scoop, ask a state cop. ;-)
 
but, but , but you can get the rosette rivets.......:poke: I'm with the against the law crowd, and I've moved states where cars entering go for vin verification, and it can be a pita even when everything is correct.
 
A VIN is a Vehicle Identification Number. It Identifies a Vehicle. It STAYS with the vehicle from birth till death. Every vehicle was built with one, Use the one it came with, plain and simple. IMO. And when a vehicle cannot be repaired because of rust/ accident whatever it is dead. VIN goes to death with it.
 
I couldn't care less. I never plan on buying a car based on what the numbers and letters on the VIN and fender tags say. A 383/automatic B-body car with a hemi/4-speed transplant means the same to me as the real thing. I understand why people get worked up over it though. Just not my thing.
 
mopowers said:
I couldn't care less. I never plan on buying a car based on what the numbers and letters on the VIN and fender tags say. A 383/automatic B-body car with a hemi/4-speed transplant means the same to me as the real thing. I understand why people get worked up over it though. Just not my thing.
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Not saying you cant put "X" engine in what ever you want, just dont change VIN. IT IS fraud. leave the /six vin on it. Where it belongs. AND changing a VIN to beat a lien is Jail time.
 
Saw someone get taken for $20k on a supposed '71 Cuda like this.

They brought the car to me after the sale for appraisal and verification. Nose said '71. VIN tag said '70 Barracuda with a 318. Core support had a totally different sequential number and the data plate and broadcast sheet was missing.

Another was a guy who had a supposed real '68 Charger R/T. The numbers on the data plate showed a real R/T, the VIN showed a '69 318 car, and the numbers on the core support and drip rail didn't match either the VIN tag of the data plate. Broadcast sheet was from another car to boot. Guy wound up taking a close $40K hit in the final sale. He found a buyer who just wanted a nice (really nice) '68 Charger with a 440 and could care less about the numbers, but when he thought it was an original R/T car he was advertising it for $50k. Sold it for $10K because those with the $50K wouldn't touch it.
 
Hell, I'd buy any running Charger R/T fake for $10,000 if it wasn't stolen!
 
It's happened on this very site too, there is a certain triple green 70 swinger that was for sale in my area, advertised as a legit 340 car, and it is actually a VIN swap on a 318 body. The fraud was done by one of our very own FABO members
 
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