Summer Water Temp Baseline?

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doc540

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100 degree/high humidity days are upon us again.

1968 Slant block, mild mod's, automatic trans

Running a stock, (good condition) 19" radiator

Stock timing, electronic ignition, vac advance

Mechanical, stock-style fan

New water pump

180 thermostat

13lb cap

No puke tank

No shroud (YET! It's in the works)

A/C

Using a laser, temperature gun:

What are the maximum allowable temps measured at the radiator intake and outtake necks at idle, in gear, A/C on?


(I have both under dash and in dash temp gauges)

Thanks
 
Maximum allowable? What exactly are you looking for?

Above 230*F and you’re overheating.

Much above 210*F to 220*F or so isn’t somewhere I want my car to stay for very long. But if it’s 100*+ and you’re running the AC and stuck in traffic or under heavy load I wouldn’t be surprised to get there occasionally.

200*F is the top of the “normal” operating range for me, so if it’s 200*F I’m not at all worried.

That’s all for inlet or sending unit temps. Radiator output should be 30*F or more cooler. Preferably more.

***edit***

Also remember your IR gun is reading surface temperature, not water temperature. So you’re getting the surface temperature of whatever you’re pointing the IR gun at. So the water temperature may be a little different, and how much it’s different will depend on the surface. Ie, the manifold and the hose may not have the same difference compared to the water temp.
 
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What does your factory guage get to?

On my granny 4 door with clean rad and block it gets to the second tick. Maybe a bit more if its real hot out. No a/c.
 
Umm, anywhere? I mean, if the radiator output is 230*F you’re pretty much boned but even if the inlet is 230 you’re not far off. If you’ve got a gauge reading 230*F you’re well on your way to overheating.

Exactly when the coolant boils depends on your coolant type/mix and radiator pressure, but if you’ve hit 230*F you’ve already gone well past the temperatures your cooling system is supposed to maintain, so it’s just a matter of time.
 
see both factory gauge and aftermarket gauge which reads 220.

Actual coolant temp was 185.

I'm thinking idling on a 100 degree day like today, it's all good.

lancer temp1.jpg


At underdash gauge reading 180 - actual coolant temp was 165.
At 200 the coolant temp was 180.
 
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So your temperature is ok and your aftermarket gauge is way off.

In that picture your factory gauge is pretty close considering it doesn’t read degrees, that’s pretty close to what I would expect it to show for a 185*F temp.

So, where is the sender for your aftermarket gauge, and is it the right sender for that aftermarket temp gauge?
 
So your temperature is ok and your aftermarket gauge is way off.

In that picture your factory gauge is pretty close considering it doesn’t read degrees, that’s pretty close to what I would expect it to show for a 185*F temp.

So, where is the sender for your aftermarket gauge, and is it the right sender for that aftermarket temp gauge?

I agree the underdash gauge is reading too high.
Is 185 coolant temp acceptable?
thanks
 
Get familiar with where your car runs temperature wise. If you are not overheating, then consider it good. I can't recall seeing a stock gauge in a Mopar going past the halfway point unless there was a problem but I don't live in a hot climate.

A/C with automatic in TX? You're smart to be aware. Shroud is going to add insurance for sure. External trans cooler might be on your list too.

My 64 with a mildly built 225 and manual trans seems to run about 1/4 up the gauge. Stock radiator and 4 blade fan.
 
I traced down the wire to the Auto Meter, under dash gauge and the sending unit is screwed into the block on the lower right side near the oil filter/oil pressure unit.

Someone has removed the block plug and installed the sender there.

I would think the water temp would be lower than at the top of the heat exit/outlet into the radiator than in that rear, lower area of the block.

Am I thinking right here?

lancer temp6.jpg
 
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You know the thermostat sets the minimum operating temp right? I run a minimum of 205 at the stat-house.
I have found the following to be more than adequate on my 367HO;
With a 7-blade all-steel A/C fan, on a thermostatic clutch, ( It doesn't much care about the shroud or the cowl seal), there should be about a 30degree temp drop between the top and bottom of the rad, idling in your driveway with the hood up.......
Your slanty could probably get away with a 5-blade on a clutch, or a 4 on direct-drive, both with a shroud.
Generally,
the higher the minimum temp, the greater the engine efficiency, and the higher the mpgs will go. The goal is to have a minimum temperature spread between the minimum and the maximum.
The maximum is set by the cooling system efficiency, and that's why I like the thermostatic 7blade fan; it only calls for rotation over a small temp window, and then it freewheels again. But while it's pulling man does it roar.
 
I traced down the wire to the Auto Meter, under dash gauge and the sending unit is screwed into the block on the lower right side near the oil filter/oil pressure unit.

Someone has removed the block plug and installed the sender there.

I would think the water temp would be lower than at the top of the heat exit/outlet into the radiator than in that rear, lower area of the block.

Am I thinking right here?

View attachment 1715182166
Yeah that would be about the coolest place to be,next to the inlet side of the pump. It's kindof a good thing to know what the rad is getting the coolant temp down to....... but it's probably better to know what the engine is getting it up to,lol.
 
The factory thermostat temp is 195. That's what I would run.
 
slantsixdan recommends a 180 thermostat in a '61 radiator/cooling system

To keep this thread going, I have been playing w/ diff. fan configurations the last couple of weeks. I,ve had a 17" 6 blade steel factory fan / belt driven, a dual 14" elec. fan set up, a 17" 10,000 rpm flexfan, and a custom cut 10,000 rpm 17 1/4" flexfan. All the fans were bet driven, except the dual elec fans. There were not much diff. between them, the dual elec was probably the worst, (thinking the thin shroud was the big problem here) , the custom cut flexfan was probably the next best, the steel factory fan might be the best. I am thinking about a diff. water pump and thermostat now, both hi flow. I am not having real big problem but would like to run around 195-200 in the terrible heat we had yesterday.
my 505" WEDGE IS GUESTIMATED AT 723 H.P., alumheaded, w/ a 28x19 crossflow rad. , two rows of 1 1/4" tubes , that was (supposedly) guaranteed to cool 800 h.p. All fans have been in a shroud .
ARE THE FLOW COOLER OR MILODON WATER PUMPS WORTH THE money ? How about the best 180* thermostaty out there ??
------------------------ALL SUGGESTIONS APPRECIATED !!!!!!!!!!!
 
Slant Six thread

all cooling problems can be fixed with an $450 custom, aluminum radiator
 
Slant Six thread

all cooling problems can be fixed with an $450 custom, aluminum radiator

That’s just dumb. There are all kinds of cooling problems that can’t be solved by upgrading the radiator. And that doesn’t even address the possibility that a $450 custom aluminum radiator isn’t necessarily an upgrade.
 
That’s just dumb. There are all kinds of cooling problems that can’t be solved by upgrading the radiator. And that doesn’t even address the possibility that a $450 custom aluminum radiator isn’t necessarily an upgrade.

It was a general statement and the advice given to me by slantsixdan.

I'll be more specific,

"....assuming the cooling system: water pump, water passages, thermostat, and fan are in good working order"

a custom radiator solves all early, shroud-less slant six cooling problems

Better?
 
It was a general statement and the advice given to me by slantsixdan.

I'll be more specific,

"....assuming the cooling system: water pump, water passages, thermostat, and fan are in good working order"

a custom radiator solves all early, shroud-less slant six cooling problems

Better?

Not really. You're still assuming you need some expensive, custom radiator. I cool over 400 hp made by an all iron, .060" over 340 with a $200, off the shelf Champion radiator. You shouldn't need any kind of custom radiator to cool a slant 6. Most plain old 22" 2 core radiators should be more than capable of handling most /6's, unless you've gone wild with engine modifications.

To keep this thread going, I have been playing w/ diff. fan configurations the last couple of weeks. I,ve had a 17" 6 blade steel factory fan / belt driven, a dual 14" elec. fan set up, a 17" 10,000 rpm flexfan, and a custom cut 10,000 rpm 17 1/4" flexfan. All the fans were bet driven, except the dual elec fans. There were not much diff. between them, the dual elec was probably the worst, (thinking the thin shroud was the big problem here) , the custom cut flexfan was probably the next best, the steel factory fan might be the best. I am thinking about a diff. water pump and thermostat now, both hi flow. I am not having real big problem but would like to run around 195-200 in the terrible heat we had yesterday.
my 505" WEDGE IS GUESTIMATED AT 723 H.P., alumheaded, w/ a 28x19 crossflow rad. , two rows of 1 1/4" tubes , that was (supposedly) guaranteed to cool 800 h.p. All fans have been in a shroud .
ARE THE FLOW COOLER OR MILODON WATER PUMPS WORTH THE money ? How about the best 180* thermostaty out there ??
------------------------ALL SUGGESTIONS APPRECIATED !!!!!!!!!!!

What is “terrible heat”, and what kind of driving conditions are you talking about?

You can probably skip the high flow thermostat, I’ve never had any luck with those. The high flow pump on the other hand may be a good idea. I run one, it works great with my 26” 3 core Champion radiator and Contour dual electric fans. You’ll hear different opinions on the high flow pumps, but you can pretty much disregard the whole idea of flowing water through the radiator “too fast”.

The dual electric fan set up not working as well probably had little to do with the shroud and more to do with the overall cfm flow of the fans. Generic, flat sheet metal shrouds though do give up some efficiency, but that’s a smaller effect than the cfm of the fans.
 
Not really. You're still assuming you need some expensive, custom radiator. I cool over 400 hp made by an all iron, .060" over 340 with a $200, off the shelf Champion radiator. You shouldn't need any kind of custom radiator to cool a slant 6. Most plain old 22" 2 core radiators should be more than capable of handling most /6's, unless you've gone wild with engine modifications.



What is “terrible heat”, and what kind of driving conditions are you talking about?

You can probably skip the high flow thermostat, I’ve never had any luck with those. The high flow pump on the other hand may be a good idea. I run one, it works great with my 26” 3 core Champion radiator and Contour dual electric fans. You’ll hear different opinions on the high flow pumps, but you can pretty much disregard the whole idea of flowing water through the radiator “too fast”.
The dual electric fan set up not working as well probably had little to do with the shroud and more to do with the overall cfm flow of the fans. Generic, flat sheet metal shrouds though do give up some efficiency, but that’s a smaller effect than the cfm of the fans.

I`m thinking a 1/2'' thick shroud would hurt an engine running on the edge. My mech. fan shroud is 2 3/4" thick , on a 3" thick crossflow. No room for contour fans !
The terrible heat I`m referring to was 90`s temp, and about 90 % humidity. The handheld consistently said 113 or over> ambient air temp. It will get worse here too.
I`thinking of a flowkooler pump, the pics I`ve seen have a diff. blade configuration than I`ve ever seen. My pump has 8 curved cast blades on it. Also wondering about the circular plate a guy can put on them. I`m thinking about replaceing the thermostat when I get in to the pump. I have a 440 source pump housing that I enlarged the passages to , to equal a stock iron housing that I`ve got setting on the bench , yrs ago , don`t think that's any of the problem.
Running around 198-200 after warm up , but keeps inching upward , to 220 if I keep driving , goes to 240 on shut down , which is what I don`t like !~
Am wondering about the cap that came w/ my radiator when I bought it, it has never puked into the overflow tank yet , and the upper rad. hose gets tite as hell when it`s that warm. Am going to buy 2 bottles of water wetter next week too. Any body got any results , or opinions on which is best brand ?? All comments appreciated !
 
fwiw: Those of you who have never owned a '60-'62 A-Body SLANT may not realize in an effort to create leg room, the factory pushed the firewalls forward jamming the front of the engine against the radiator and grill.

For anyone adding A/C, there is even less room for the compressor clutch face.

Finally, their radiators were two core, 19" without shrouds, so that's all there is to work with.

I tried an electric fan and removed it after we determined it made no difference on 100 degree, high humidity days.

So, again, to be clear: 1960-1962 Slants with stock radiators may need assistance if the car is running A/C in VERY HOT climates.

This is all the room a stock car/engine has to work with.

Cramped - crank and fan pulley to radiator = less than 3"
lancer ac10.jpg


Notice the EXTENDED firewall

lancer engine6.jpg
 
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For Famous Bob;
My engine doesn't care about ambient or idling or hood open/closed, or traffic or running at 100mph for an hour or three, or ram air, or any of that stuff. It runs 205 at the stat house with an IR gun , no more and no less.

Here's what works on my little 367.
-aluminum heads,
- I pilfered the rad and the shroud from a 1973 Swinger 318 with A/C. The dang thing is over 41 years old. It's a 26", and I think a 2-row.
-Milodon Hi-flo pump which is just a regular pump with an anti-cavitation plate welded on and 7 or 8 vanes I can't recall which,,and I believe it has a 5/8 shaft.
-Milodon Hi-flo 195 stat
-Seven-blade factory all-steel A/C clutch-fan with the funky anti-vortex tips and a fairly high attack angle on the blades, also from the Dart
-a fan clutch from an early 200X Ford pick-up. This is a key part.
-I rev mine to 7000/7200 so I'm running an underdrive pulley set.
-TTI headers with dual 3" full length mandrel bent pipes
-Airgap
- Fresh cold above-the-hood air, another big-deal
- .0030 to .0032 skirt clearance on the KB 107s
- a 7psi cap, and a recirculating overflow tank (also from the 73 Dart).
- I installed a restrictor in the bypass hose, and in summer, I block the hose that normally delivers hot water to the heater.
- I used to run 100%water, but got tired of draining it every fall, so somewhere along the line, I went to 50/50, No change in running temperature,after everything else was dialed in.
___________________________
>On the shakedown run, I discovered that a direct drive flex-fan was chit. Same for the small diameter factory 6 blade steel fan, and the Mopar Performance 5-blade or 7-blade-low-attack viscous clutch fans, IMO all crap, by themselves.
> During the first roadtrip with an inferior cooling system,on a very hot day,lol, I discovered that the engine was running pretty warm, and every time I shut her off, I had to wait a half hour to restart cuz the pistons would lock-up in the bores. The machine shop had initially set the skirt clearance to .0025, on the KB-107s. When I got home, I took it all apart and had them put more clearance in, and that solved that.
> The Milodon wate pump was instant relief.
> the aluminum heads and TTIs were cooking everything in sight including the 750DP and fuel line. A hole in the hood was instant relief. I put an oval filter box on top of the hood,between the louvers (68Barracuda) and sealed the carb to the underside. I installed a large canister EFI,steel fuel-filter at the back on the suction side, and plumbed a one piece all-steel line from the pump to the dual-feed.
> I ventilated the hood to let the heat out when parked.
>the 7psi cap just lets all the rubber parts last forever, and makes life easy on the rad and heater core. Only the heater hoses and bypass were new in 1999. The rad hoses are more ancient. And yes the lower hose has the anti-collapse spring inside it.
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The engine is a 4.04x3.58, 367 cuber at 10.9Scr (was 11.3 with the first cam, the 292/108). KB 107s out of the hole about .005. Quench set to .034, a Hughes 230* cam with 1.6 adjustable arms, the aforementioned AG and 750DP, Milodon RoadRace pan with HV oilpump, Manual trans, currently running 3.55s and smoking up the 325s, and OOTB Eddies now painted Orange. She went 93 in the 1/8th at 3467#; So; not 800hp, not 600, not 500; perhaps a tic over 400hp.
______________________________________
a lot of the changes were made together, so I can't separate out items that may not have contributed.
The following items, I can say , really helped;
the Milodon pump,fresh cold air,and the 7 blade T-clutch set-up.
The pistons , IMO, might have been Ok at .0025 as originally installed, if I had made all the other changes first. They do rattle at start-up for a half a minute or so.
Since my coolant runs rock-solid at 205, I do not need more than the 7psi cap.

I abuse the chit out of this combo. The temp needle never moves after stabilizing warm.The only time I ever look at the gauge now is right after a 7200 rpm blast, to make sure the belt is still on. Speaking of which, I run that V-belt as loose as possible without it squealing. I think it was new in 2004.

This is what has worked for me. Your results may vary
 
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fwiw: Those of you who have never owned a '60-'62 A-Body SLANT may not realize in an effort to create leg room, the factory pushed the firewalls forward jamming the front of the engine against the radiator and grill.

For anyone adding A/C, there is even less room for the compressor clutch face.

Finally, their radiators were two core, 19" without shrouds, so that's all there is to work with.

I tried an electric fan and removed it after we determined it made no difference on 100 degree, high humidity days.

So, again, to be clear: 1960-1962 Slants with stock radiators may need assistance if the car is running A/C in VERY HOT climates.

This is all the room a stock car/engine has to work with.

Cramped - crank and fan pulley to radiator = less than 3"
View attachment 1715182958

Notice the EXTENDED firewall

View attachment 1715182959

Oh, so, now you share that your 1968 /6 is in a 60-62 A-body? Might have been useful information before don't you think? Not that it matters. You still need to maintain the same engine temperatures, and you still don't necessarily need a $450 custom radiator. If you think that's the only solution, spend your money, doesn't hurt my feelings.

The whole thing is kinda interesting, because your car isn't running hot based on the information you've posted. You have an inaccurate aftermarket temp gauge and a poorly located sending unit, but that's about it. And now you think you need a new radiator for some reason? Not with a temp of 185*F with it idling in the driveway on a hot day you don't.

As far as the rest of it, 19" radiators were used for /6's in A-body's all the way up through 1974. Probably longer, I just don't have the part numbers handy. You can see all the sizes offered here
MyMopar.com - Radiator Specifications

Maybe you didn't know that on the later cars at least, a 22" radiator will bolt right in place of the 19" radiators. Same mounts and everything, straight bolt in. Now, it may not be quite that easy for the 60-62's, but if I can figure out how to put a 26" radiator behind a 22" radiator support you should be able to figure out how to install a 22" radiator in a 19" support. Both are 2 core radiators, the 22" will of course have more surface area, which means better cooling. There's more than enough room to mount the 22" radiator in that radiator support.

The pulley to radiator spacing is tight, but it's not the worst I've seen. You can still use a shroud. Maybe not a factory one, but even a fan shroud that would fit in there would improve your radiators efficiency. You're also still using a factory fan. There are mechanical fans out there that move more air than the factory design. But again, based on the information you've provided so far, you don't need one. Just a better aftermarket temp gauge and sender.
 
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