United Car Tool Torque boxes - can they go in AFTER subframe connectors?

[MRGTX]

Looking at doing these things in steps...

Without the torque boxes in hand, it's hard to picture but does the order of installation matter when installing United Car Tool Torque boxes and welded-in subframe connectors?

Thanks!

 

[Steven190]

I think it does not matter which ones go on first. My only advice before installing the sub frame connections is to have the car on a frame shop to be sure it is square and most of all flat. Then do the connectors.

 

[Frnknsteen]

I can't say for sure on an A-body, but I just put those on my Charger. Frame connectors went on first, then the torque boxes were welded in.

 

[72bluNblu]

They can go on after the frame connectors, that’s how I installed mine. You might have to make some minor modifications to the torque boxes to fit them around the subframe connectors depending on how the connectors are installed. But it’s typically easier to modify the torque boxes than it is to modify the subframe connectors.

 

[MRGTX]

Thanks, guys. That’s good news for my wallet.

Also thanks for not calling me out on the “US Car Tool” error in the title.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

Your front torque boxes really don't matter, but the rear are meant to be welded on BEFORE the sub frame connectors. They don't have to be modified to do that. If you install them after you will have to cut them to fit and it makes a weak intersection. I've installed them 3 times now on cars. That's the way it's done (See pic).

The sub frame connectors may have an issue where they start to angle off the floor pan about 18" towards the back, just make a cut on the sides, bend to fit them and weld up the cuts. You goal is to have the sub frame connectors flush and not 1/4" below the rear cross frame.

You will have to relocate the brakes lines and gas lines if you don't want to snake them thru the sub frame connectors.

US Car Tool has several hundred pictures on there site to explain how to fit their products, and they are always available by phone and email.

 

[MRGTX]

Your front torque boxes really don't matter, but the rear are meant to be welded on BEFORE the sub frame connectors. They don't have to be modified to do that. If you install them after you will have to cut them to fit and it makes a weak intersection. ...

So it doesn't sound like you're contradicting 72Blu's comments except that you have found that it significantly weakens the joint...which presumably defeats the purpose of the connector to some degree...

 

[72bluNblu]

Your front torque boxes really don't matter, but the rear are meant to be welded on BEFORE the sub frame connectors. They don't have to be modified to do that. If you install them after you will have to cut them to fit and it makes a weak intersection. I've installed them 3 times now on cars. That's the way it's done (See pic).

The sub frame connectors may have an issue where they start to angle off the floor pan about 18" towards the back, just make a cut on the sides, bend to fit them and weld up the cuts. You goal is to have the sub frame connectors flush and not 1/4" below the rear cross frame.

You will have to relocate the brakes lines and gas lines if you don't want to snake them thru the sub frame connectors.

US Car Tool has several hundred pictures on there site to explain how to fit their products, and they are always available by phone and email.
View attachment 1715184655

I didn't have to modify my torque boxes to install them over my USCT subframe connectors. My comments about modifications were because I assumed some people might be installing them over tubular or home-made connectors that were already installed, so the process might be a little different because the subframe connectors might be different.

With the USCT connectors the torque boxes don't need anything more than the general fitting to the car needed regardless of which order they're installed in. And if you actually go to the US Cartool website, you'll see that they installed them second in their pictures. You can clearly see the torque box overlapping the subframe connector.

Torque Boxes Set of two(2) rear for 1967 - 1975 Mopar A Bodies

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

So it doesn't sound like you're contradicting 72Blu's comments except that you have found that it significantly weakens the joint...which presumably defeats the purpose of the connector to some degree...

You will find out that the sub frame connectors, will in most cases, be too far away from the rear cross frame to be installed first... The pic below IS from the US Car Tool website... In the picture he posted, the sub frame connectors won't land that close to the rear factory cross frame. there will be a gap. That gap can be as much as + 1/4".

The OP was asking for the ORDER to weld them in. I've done it 3 times now. The torque boxes were designed to go on first.

 

[72bluNblu]

You will find out that the sub frame connectors, will in most cases, be too far away from the rear cross frame to be installed first... The pic below IS from the US Car Tool website... In the picture he posted, the sub frame connectors won't land that close to the rear factory cross frame. there will be a gap. That gap can be as much as + 1/4".

The OP was asking for the ORDER to weld them in. I've done it 3 times now. The torque boxes were designed to go on first.
View attachment 1715184717

The picture I uploaded is ALSO from the USCT website. It doesn't matter, they have one set of pictures with them installed before the subframe connectors (on a '67 Dart), and one with them installed after (on a '72 Dart, the one that has the components painted yellow).

And, if you fit the subframe connectors properly, there shouldn't be a 1/4" gap. There wasn't on mine. My install looks just like the picture above.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

According to you, you made your own sub frame connectors. So, what is your point 72blunblu?
Once again your trying to claim to be an expert at something you haven't done. But, you'll follow this right up with another post to inflate your ego over trying to be right. But now you will tell everyone that you used them?

I've put their product on 3 Mopar cars now.

I notice in the picture you posted the sub frame connector is hammered flat for about 3"-4" to make it hit where it should. You can go the caveman route, which will take the bend radius out of the connector, which causes cracks, looks like hell...

And my subframe connectors fit just about perfect out of the box. But, here you go with you're wisdom over something you have posted over and over to not have done or used. If you look at US Car Tool's old original design when they didn't pre-bend the subframe connectors it will become clear what they knew about the floor pan angle.

LOL

 

[72bluNblu]

According to you, you made your own sub frame connectors. So, what is your point 72blunblu?
Once again your trying to claim to be an expert at something you haven't done. But, you'll follow this right up with another post to inflate your ego over trying to be right. But now you will tell everyone that you used them?

I've put their product on 3 Mopar cars now.

I notice in the picture you posted the sub frame connector is hammered flat for about 3"-4" to make it hit where it should. You can go the caveman route, which will take the bend radius out of the connector, which causes cracks, looks like hell...

And my subframe connectors fit just about perfect out of the box. But, here you go with you're wisdom over something you have posted over and over to not have done or used. If you look at US Car Tool's old original design when they didn't pre-bend the subframe connectors it will become clear what they knew about the floor pan angle.

LOL

Oh brother.

I have more than one A-body, as my signature clearly shows. Which means it's completely possible for me to have installed more than one kind of frame connector right? On my Duster I made my own subframe connectors from 1.5"x3" tubing and used US Cartool torque boxes. I installed my subframe connectors first, then the torque boxes. This is that car, I've posted all of these plenty of times before

BUT, on my '71 EL5 Dart GT, I wanted a more stock look for the subframe connectors because that car is a matching numbers, 1 of ~1280 made GT. So, I used the US Cartool connectors. I also used their torque boxes, and installed them after I installed the USCT subframe connectors. So yes, I have used them, I have installed them, and I based my opinions on my own install. Which I clearly mentioned in my previous posts. I didn't have to hammer anything to install them, it worked just fine beyond the general difficulties I mentioned about welding upside down with the car up on stands and the large amount of welding needed.

And, the both of pictures I attached in my previous posts are FROM THE US CARTOOL WEBSITE. That's their install. I linked it above, here it is again. Follow the link, see the pictures on the USCT website. 67-75 Mopar A Body Frame Connectors So, your argument here is that US Cartool installed their own connectors wrong? And then painted them yellow to highlight their product installed incorrectly?

I figured you would probably just double down anyway, so I emailed US Cartool after my last post and asked them. Here's the response-

Hi Bryan,

It does not matter, we often install the frame connectors first and the torques boxes over , but it really is not an issue either way.

Let me know if you need any help.

Best Regards,

John Pasemann

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I have a set of your subframe connectors and torque boxes for my ‘71 Dodge Dart. I noticed in the pictures on the website that on the ‘67 Dart pictures the torque boxes were installed before the subframe connectors, while on the ‘72 Dart (the one with everything highlighted yellow) they were installed after the subframe connectors. Does it matter which order they’re installed in?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bryan​

And if you don't believe me, here's a screenshot of the email too. It's kinda small because of the way that FABO shrunk the picture, but if you squint it says the same thing as above. My full name and email are edited, and you may notice I asked "Chris" because that's the name on the email for the website. But John answered me back. So, there you have it. According to US Cartool, it doesn't make a difference.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

Oh brother.

I have more than one A-body, as my signature clearly shows. Which means it's completely possible for me to have installed more than one kind of frame connector right? On my Duster I made my own subframe connectors from 1.5"x3" tubing and used US Cartool torque boxes. I installed my subframe connectors first, then the torque boxes. This is that car, I've posted all of these plenty of times before

View attachment 1715184828
View attachment 1715184829

View attachment 1715184827


BUT, on my '71 EL5 Dart GT, I wanted a more stock look for the subframe connectors because that car is a matching numbers, 1 of ~1280 made GT. So, I used the US Cartool connectors. I also used their torque boxes, and installed them after I installed the USCT subframe connectors. So yes, I have used them, I have installed them, and I based my opinions on my own install. Which I clearly mentioned in my previous posts. I didn't have to hammer anything to install them, it worked just fine beyond the general difficulties I mentioned about welding upside down with the car up on stands and the large amount of welding needed.

View attachment 1715184825

View attachment 1715184826

And, the both of pictures I attached in my previous posts are FROM THE US CARTOOL WEBSITE. That's their install. I linked it above, here it is again. Follow the link, see the pictures on the USCT website. 67-75 Mopar A Body Frame Connectors So, your argument here is that US Cartool installed their own connectors wrong? And then painted them yellow to highlight their product installed incorrectly?

I figured you would probably just double down anyway, so I emailed US Cartool after my last post and asked them. Here's the response-

Hi Bryan,

It does not matter, we often install the frame connectors first and the torques boxes over , but it really is not an issue either way.

Let me know if you need any help.

Best Regards,

John Pasemann

> On Jun 7, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Bryan wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I have a set of your subframe connectors and torque boxes for my ‘71 Dodge Dart. I noticed in the pictures on the website that on the ‘67 Dart pictures the torque boxes were installed before the subframe connectors, while on the ‘72 Dart (the one with everything highlighted yellow) they were installed after the subframe connectors. Does it matter which order they’re installed in?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bryan​

And if you don't believe me, here's a screenshot of the email too. It's kinda small because of the way that FABO shrunk the picture, but if you squint it says the same thing as above. My full name and email are edited, and you may notice I asked "Chris" because that's the name on the email for the website. But John answered me back. So, there you have it. According to US Cartool, it doesn't make a difference.

View attachment 1715184817

Wow! Who cares what you think on this. You used their connectors what, once now you claim? I know you can put them on first, you have to hammer them flat in the back to do it or to sit and regrind some contour on the sub-frame connectors. It doesn't look nice. They work best if you do the torque boxes first. In the pictures you posted from the US Car Tool web site, you can see they hammered them flat. Or you can just relieve them like I did and be done quicker.

Dude, you seriously have an ego you need to please. I have seen your welding, you're not a welder. You're a "grinder". You're stuff looks like ****. You claim to be a body man, yet none of your cars are done or painted.

The fact is you're like a 16 year old girl on ForABodies.com having a social media fight.

So, if John Pasemann @ US Car Tool told you it doesn't matter which order they are put on, basically you can work them to fit. Why did you write that I've put mine on wrong? I can answer that, you have an ego you have to please. You always have to be right. LOL

Just like when you tell everyone my car is a "Trailer Queen" because it's mini tubbed, but you will sit and gush over another posters mini tubbed Mopar.

You're a joke on here who likes to retype the Mopar service manuals.

 

[72bluNblu]

Wow! Who cares what you think on this. You used their connectors what, once now you claim? I know you can put them on first, you have to hammer them flat in the back to do it or to sit and regrind some contour on the sub-frame connectors. It doesn't look nice. They work best if you do the torque boxes first. In the pictures you posted from the US Car Tool web site, you can see they hammered them flat. Or you can just relieve them like I did and be done quicker.

Dude, you seriously have an ego you need to please. I have seen your welding, you're not a welder. You're a "grinder". You're stuff looks like ****. You claim to be a body man, yet none of your cars are done or painted.

The fact is you're like a 16 year old girl on ForABodies.com having a social media fight.

So, if John Pasemann @ US Car Tool told you it doesn't matter which order they are put on, basically you can work them to fit. Why did you write that I've put mine on wrong? I can answer that, you have an ego you have to please. You always have to be right. LOL

Just like when you tell everyone my car is a "Trailer Queen" because it's mini tubbed, but you will sit and gush over another posters mini tubbed Mopar.

You're a joke on here who likes to retype the Mopar service manuals.

I shouldn't even bother since you're throwing a tantrum, but I'm going to clarify a couple of points for anyone that might still be actually be reading this thread trying to get information about installing their subframe connectors and torque boxes.

I never said you installed your connectors and torque boxes wrong. Read my posts, I never said that. I said I installed them second. And then I said it didn't matter what order they're installed in. At no point did I say the installation couldn't be done the way you did it, or that you were wrong about anything other than the fact that it doesn't matter what order the installation takes place in.

You made the point of saying that US Cartool was available by phone and email for questions, so, I actually emailed them to see what they would say. And if they had said I was wrong, I would have posted that too. But they didn't, they said that they install them both ways at their shop. They make the parts, they install them both ways, and their recommendation as the manufacturer is that the order doesn't matter. Pretty sure that ends the debate, they're the experts.

I'm not even going to address the rest of what you've said. You obviously don't know anything about me or my motivations for working on and driving these cars, or even my motivation for posting here.

 

[oi81b4uu812b4]

I shouldn't even bother since you're throwing a tantrum, but I'm going to clarify a couple of points for anyone that might still be actually be reading this thread trying to get information about installing their subframe connectors and torque boxes.

I never said you installed your connectors and torque boxes wrong. Read my posts, I never said that. I said I installed them second. And then I said it didn't matter what order they're installed in. At no point did I say the installation couldn't be done the way you did it, or that you were wrong about anything other than the fact that it doesn't matter what order the installation takes place in.

You made the point of saying that US Cartool was available by phone and email for questions, so, I actually emailed them to see what they would say. And if they had said I was wrong, I would have posted that too. But they didn't, they said that they install them both ways at their shop. They make the parts, they install them both ways, and their recommendation as the manufacturer is that the order doesn't matter. Pretty sure that ends the debate, they're the experts.

I'm not even going to address the rest of what you've said. You obviously don't know anything about me or my motivations for working on and driving these cars, or even my motivation for posting here.

And you argue with me over this issue?

 

[kg340]

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