Can I weld my cam bolts?

-

furyus2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2010
Messages
2,418
Reaction score
903
Location
weeki wachee fl
Ok, I've set the alignment on my 69 Dart about 7 times, plus 2 times at 2 different shops. I thought it was the shop's fault the alignment was wrong. So I bought a Longacre alignment kit. Set the alignment, drive car around block, and settings are completely different. Tried new cam bolts, then went back to the original bolts. Tightened them with a breaker bar. Still alignment changes when driving. I thought I read that A bodies are troublesome, and tack welds are needed. Is this a good idea?
 
Check the lower control arm bushings, if you haven't replaced them I bet they are bad
 
When the alignment changes that much something is moving, your saying the cams are moving after you tighten them?
 
Were the upper bushings complete with metal washers with nubs on both ends?
 
Did you tighten the LCA's while in the air? If so poly bushings are settling or rubber bushings are tearing. LCA's should be tightened at ride height or you will fight it forever
 
I always try to set them by taking them in too far, and then rotating them out to where I want the camber to be. That way the cam washer is riding hard on the inner adjuster lip. If I hit a pot hole, it's going to try pushing the upper control arm inwards, not out. I'd try epoxy before I welded anything up in there, at least in the future if you needed to take it apart, you could put a little heat to it and melt the epoxy. Trying to get a grinder up in there would be a PITA.
 
Did you tighten the LCA's while in the air? If so poly bushings are settling or rubber bushings are tearing. LCA's should be tightened at ride height or you will fight it forever
I can't remember. I will loosen them, and tighten on the ground. But I know that I did the uppers while on the ground. Not easy.
Will jacking the car up on the lower control arm, and loosen, and re tighten be the same as on the ground?
 
Are you using the cheap chinese cam bolts with flats on two sides of the threads? If so, find some quality bolts, the cheap chinese bolts are known for not tightening and also breaking!
 
Your "K" member could be bad. Holes for the LCA pivot bolts crack, fracture etc, not uncommon in Mopars in general.
 
The only thing you should ever have to do to the UCA camber bolts is torque them to spec.

If that doesn’t hold them, you’ve got something else going on. I even grease the UCA bolts and the backside of the eccentric washers on my cars so they’re easy to adjust when I set the alignment. Never had them move after they’ve been torqued.

There were some batches of cam bolts that didn’t have the flat cut far enough down the bolts, so the eccentric washer would bottom out before any clamp force was applied to keep the bolt from moving. But it sounds like you have the same problem with the stock bolts, so something else is probably going on. My bet would be on something other than the cam bolts moving, but that’s just my guess. More likely you’ve got something broken somewhere, or the LCA pivot pins were tightened with the car in the air and the rubber LCA bushings tore when the car sat down to ride height.
 
If you have slightly too much toe-in it WILL pull the front end down and change the alignment (I didn't believe this when I was told this until I saw it on my son's Barracuda). If you set the alignment after setting the car on the ground without using some sort of slip plate or alignment plates you will be off.
 
All good info above. Maybe damage to the body where the uppers go through. Cracks in the K frame sleeve are very common, as others have said. Welding will not fix it, and cause more problems. Something else is wrong.
 
Are you using the cheap chinese cam bolts with flats on two sides of the threads? If so, find some quality bolts, the cheap chinese bolts are known for not tightening and also breaking!
I removed them, and put stock bolts that were originally in the car back in.
 
The only thing you should ever have to do to the UCA camber bolts is torque them to spec.

If that doesn’t hold them, you’ve got something else going on. I even grease the UCA bolts and the backside of the eccentric washers on my cars so they’re easy to adjust when I set the alignment. Never had them move after they’ve been torqued.

There were some batches of cam bolts that didn’t have the flat cut far enough down the bolts, so the eccentric washer would bottom out before any clamp force was applied to keep the bolt from moving. But it sounds like you have the same problem with the stock bolts, so something else is probably going on. My bet would be on something other than the cam bolts moving, but that’s just my guess. More likely you’ve got something broken somewhere, or the LCA pivot pins were tightened with the car in the air and the rubber LCA bushings tore when the car sat down to ride height.
I hope they didn't tear. That's a crappy job to have to redo. I will check them this weekend.
 
All good info above. Maybe damage to the body where the uppers go through. Cracks in the K frame sleeve are very common, as others have said. Welding will not fix it, and cause more problems. Something else is wrong.
I had the entire K frame out when I restored the car. I knew to look for cracks. Didn't see any. If it was some kind of damage from an accident, I don't think it would be both sides moving. And if it was me, why did the 2 alignment shops have the same issue? I have a 64 Sport Fury, and those adjusters haven't moved in 15 years. I will look at the lca bushings, and the washers with nubs.
 
Like previously said in post 5 these should be there...…
upload_2018-7-10_16-19-26.png


And from my experience they will likely need to be forced into the brackets as opposed to just slipping in.

If the washers are on and the bushings are actually shorter than originals, check if you are bottoming on the end of the flat or threads...….
EccentricShoulder.gif


BTW, I haven't seen this condition.
 
Thanks for the pics. I will pull the bolts, and check for the washer, and make sure I have flat showing.
 
Just because your parts are new doesn't mean they're good. Check all the ball joints and all that business. And re check your k frame for cracks
 
I just pulled my engine / k member and suspension to install a new motor and found that one of my UCA bushings was wobbling in its bore. All of the suspension e
Was new about 500 miles ago...
I had a friend make inside and outside collars for the bushings that I pressed on then tacked to the control arms. The stamped hole for the bushings is the weak point in this design.

Hmmm... I thought I had taken pics of them installed ? Must have been with my iPad.
 
Take a good look at post #19,pic 2
I spent almost 6 years as an alignment tech, and I have seen that with brand new Moog bolts.
The first time, it was a do-over for me. But it didn't take long to figure it out. I put an extra hardened washer on the head end to pull those flats about 1/8th inch further in and problem was solved. After that, I just automatically installed the washers.
 
The only thing you should ever have to do to the UCA camber bolts is torque them to spec.

If that doesn’t hold them, you’ve got something else going on. I even grease the UCA bolts and the backside of the eccentric washers on my cars so they’re easy to adjust when I set the alignment. Never had them move after they’ve been torqued.

There were some batches of cam bolts that didn’t have the flat cut far enough down the bolts, so the eccentric washer would bottom out before any clamp force was applied to keep the bolt from moving. But it sounds like you have the same problem with the stock bolts, so something else is probably going on. My bet would be on something other than the cam bolts moving, but that’s just my guess. More likely you’ve got something broken somewhere, or the LCA pivot pins were tightened with the car in the air and the rubber LCA bushings tore when the car sat down to ride height.

Exactly my thoughts. He said tightened them with a breaker bar. That's what they're good for. Breakin stuff. You can over tighten a fastener and when you do, they stretch. When they stretch, they actually loosen up.

Now, I have done this trick to all of mine in the past. Clean the bolts, cams and frame brackets up good. I mean operating room good. Then, with a center punch, punch a series of divets in the bracket side of the cams and on the brackets where the cams tighten down. This will help lock everything down tight when you tighten them down.

All that said, I agree with others in that something is moving somewhere. You could mark the cam bolts so that you can tell when you come back from driving if it's them that's moving.
 
-
Back
Top