Purchasing a car from a private seller. Nightmare.

[318willrun]

When I sell (and I've sold a lot), it's this simple. Look all you want (you and your trusted friend), I'll provide ramps, creeper, and flashlight. Inspect it all, the good, bad, and ugly. I'll tell you the skinny of the story (which will include anything major wrong that I'm aware of), ask any questions.
But.... once I give you the title and you give me the cash, it's done. Both parties get signed bill of sales stating "As is, as seen".

 

[moparmat2000]

The "repair" in your pix looks like it may have been done awhile ago. Like a long awhile ago. Maybe its a possibility "Bob" wasnt even aware of it being done.

 

[LocuMob]

I feel your pain,but you made the choice to buy. Bob could say "consignment" and it wouldn't matter about the name on the title (I have no problem buying or selling with a name that isn't the sellers, never had an issue, the folks at the DMV don't know who they are)

once I give you the title and you give me the cash, it's done.

Exactly this. Don't give me the money if you don't want it. I'll tell you everything you'll need to fix but once the money is in my hand, the car is yours. Get a frame rail(s) off a good car, plenty for sale here, and fix it, and enjoy the sun drenched driving out bought it for, it's only money.

 

[72bluNblu]

When I sell (and I've sold a lot), it's this simple. Look all you want (you and your trusted friend), I'll provide ramps, creeper, and flashlight. Inspect it all, the good, bad, and ugly. I'll tell you the skinny of the story (which will include anything major wrong that I'm aware of), ask any questions.
But.... once I give you the title and you give me the cash, it's done. Both parties get signed bill of sales stating "As is, as seen".

I feel your pain,but you made the choice to buy. Bob could say "consignment" and it wouldn't matter about the name on the title (I have no problem buying or selling with a name that isn't the sellers, never had an issue, the folks at the DMV don't know who they are)

Exactly this. Don't give me the money into don't want it. I'll tell you everything you'll need to fix but once the money is in my hand, the car is yours. Get a frame rail(s) off a good car, plenty for sale here, and fix it, and enjoy the sun drenched driving out bought it for, it's only money.

Right, absolutely, buyer beware and all that. But there’s a couple things that both of you included that didn’t happen

-the OP wasn’t told about the major things that are wrong with the car

-the title isn’t legally transferable. Can it be done? Sure, I've been on the receiving end of that too. But title skipping IS illegal. The problem is that there usually isn't enough documentation to prove what happened.

So yeah I get it, buyer beware, if it wasn't right you shouldn't have paid the guy. I’ve inspected cars I’ve bought and then found things later that I didn’t see. That’s the nature of buying used cars of this age. Being purposely mislead is something else, that's called fraud.

Bob here has been less than honest. Period. And if he says "consignment" he probably becomes a dealer operating without a license, which is also illegal. Could he argue that he didn't know about the damage? Sure. But if a guy that isn't all that mechanically inclined noticed the symptoms of the problem after only a day or two, Bob would have to be completely incompetent as a mechanic to not have noticed. Which in this case means he's either incompetent, or a dirtbag.

 

[sireland67]

The way I look at it, you accepted the title when you made the deal, if the title was not correct and in his name, its your fault.
The frame rail is the same deal, you looked at the car when it was purchased.

 

[autoxcuda]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I didn't mention that i took the car to my mechanic and another recommended by a reputable custom car restoration garage in my town. Both mechanics said it doesn't look repairable or if it was it would be expensive. The final word will come on 08/25 when i take it to the custom car garage i mentioned. They would have the frame equipment that would be needed to make the repair and would tell me how much it would cost. again, it doesn't look good. I'm calling the seller back shortly and i'm going to see about returning the car.

View attachment 1715209774

One of my 68 A-bodies has a welded on strap like that.

What was the camber setting that they cannot get? Was it negative (top in) or positive camber (top out) ??

What does the computer printout say? Please post pic of it.

 

[moparmat2000]

Weld in another set of front rails, and drive it. You never get back out of these cars what you put into them. Lots of front rails pop up here time to time from rust free midwestern cars. Use this as a learning experience.

 

[LocuMob]

the OP wasn’t told about the major things that are wrong with the car

-the title isn’t legally transferable. Can it be done? Sure, I've been on the receiving end of that too. But title skipping IS illegal. The problem is that there usually isn't enough documentation to prove what happened.

We can't say that Bob withheld anything, only speculate. The repair is old and blends in better than a new one would, and is Bob a Mopar guy? Does he know what to look.for like us? I'm not saying he's a saint, but he may have been oblivious as well.

Title skipping, I don't know the laws in Illinois, nor do I care. Speeding is illegal, but I'm pretty sure we all do it. Why make our cars perform better if we can test it out every now and again? No one's bitching about that. (I know, apples to oranges) As long as the transfer goes through, I don't care, even had (and might have one now) that the title had a dead person's name signed on it! I hear though, it's not proper, and trouble can be waiting for you with those situations.

 

[GeorgeH]

Sounds like some buyers remorse and first time buying a used car. "As is, where is" is pretty standard affair. You bought a 40+ year old unrestored car. It's not like shopping at Wal-Mart. You can't take it back if you don't like it.
1960-1976 All Makes All Models Parts | MM8184 | 1960-76 Mopar A-Body Upper Control Arm Mount; LH | Classic Industries if the rail isn't rotted everywhere else. Just saying.

Selling on an open title, while not legal is not uncommon. Create an issue at Dmv and end up with a state issued non Mopar Vin#, there goes the value. Assuming the car is stolen is ridiculous. There is a title that already exists and was in hand for that car. The last thing I would do is run around showing up and making phone calls notifying everyone involved there is an open title issue. Don't turn the title work into a clusterf*ck. Get the title and sell it if you're not happy.




.

 

[moparmat2000]

Sounds like some buyers remorse and first time buying a used car. "As is, where is" is pretty standard affair. You bought a 40+ year old unrestored car. It's not like shopping at Wal-Mart. You can't take it back if you don't like it.
1960-1976 All Makes All Models Parts | MM8184 | 1960-76 Mopar A-Body Upper Control Arm Mount; LH | Classic Industries if the rail isn't rotted everywhere else. Just saying.

Selling on an open title, while not legal is not uncommon. Create an issue at Dmv and end up with a state issued non Mopar Vin#, there goes the value. Assuming the car is stolen is ridiculous. There is a title that already exists and was in hand for that car. The last thing I would do is run around showing up and making phone calls notifying everyone involved there is an open title issue. Don't turn the title work into a clusterf*ck. Get the title and sell it if you're not happy.




.

Didnt know they were selling that part of the framerails for the upper arm attachment. If theres a small amount of rust thru in the rail, a section can be fabbed or used out of a rust free rail and installed with inside doublers rosette welded in, and the new pieces from classic ind used.

 

[jos51700]

Quit screwing around.

Lawyer up.

 

[GeorgeH]

Didnt know they were selling that part of the framerails for the upper arm attachment. If theres a small amount of rust thru in the rail, a section can be fabbed or used out of a rust free rail and installed with inside doublers rosette welded in, and the new pieces from classic ind used.

I just threw that out there that the piece is available.

 

[moparmat2000]

I have bought effed up cars in the past. Some chit i found on walkaround, some chit i found later. Like the 69 Charger i bought with prev owner installed 440 cop engine, and hackified wiring. Originally a 318 w air. I payed $800 and dragged it off. Guy claimed it ran. I bet it did at one time lol. Well until he left water in the block over the winter. I pulled the intake and saw rusty cracks in the lifter valley. But oh well i bought it, and i couldent hear it run at that time. My screw up. I bought another 440 block and built that one up with the guts from the 440 that came with the car. Now thats not so bad concidering i intended to rebuild the car anyways, and $800 is a bit different than $9k but $9k is still a good deal on a 67 cuda vert providing everything else is ok with it. Fix it drive it enjoy it, or fix it and sell it.

 

[72bluNblu]

We can't say that Bob withheld anything, only speculate. The repair is old and blends in better than a new one would, and is Bob a Mopar guy? Does he know what to look.for like us? I'm not saying he's a saint, but he may have been oblivious as well.

Title skipping, I don't know the laws in Illinois, nor do I care. Speeding is illegal, but I'm pretty sure we all do it. Why make our cars perform better if we can test it out every now and again? No one's bitching about that. (I know, apples to oranges) As long as the transfer goes through, I don't care, even had (and might have one now) that the title had a dead person's name signed on it! I hear though, it's not proper, and trouble can be waiting for you with those situations.

The OP said he was buying "his first vintage car". If a guy buying his first vintage car noticed the symptoms of this old repair after only a day or two of driving the car, Bob is either a complete moron of a mechanic, or a con artist. Or maybe both, but either way this is NOT a stand up deal.

I'm amazed how many of the members here are more than happy to jump all over some poor guy who got screwed buying his first vintage car, rather than the shady sack of crap that sold it to him. Nice bunch.

Yeah, we've all made mistakes buying these cars. I sure as heck have. There's ALWAYS going to be something that made it through the inspection process, no matter how thorough you thought you were. No one is going to let you tear into a car as deep as you need to go to really know everything. That is part of buying old cars.

What shouldn't be a part of buying old cars is flippers and scammers. But as long as we're willing to put all the blame on the buyer, those low life's will take people for a ride. Just because a seller tricked some poor bastard into buying a disaster of a car doesn't absolve the seller of being a crooked prick.

 

[billccm]

Does 9 grand buy a better A body?

 

[72bluNblu]

Does 9 grand buy a better A body?

Absolutely. 9 grand should buy you an absolute peach of an A-body as long as it's not some original big block or 340 car.

You're not going to get some Barrett-Jackson show car for $9k, but you can absolutely buy a nice, clean, rust free driver car for that.

 

[yellow rose]

Does 9 grand buy a better A body?

Not where I live. I was thinking that's pretty damn cheap for what it was said to be.

****...my 1973 junker is worth more than 9 grand. I have 8 times that in it, so it's a money loser, but it's worth more than 9k.

 

[72bluNblu]

Not where I live. I was thinking that's pretty damn cheap for what it was said to be.

****...my 1973 junker is worth more than 9 grand. I have 8 times that in it, so it's a money loser, but it's worth more than 9k.

Give me a break. I bought my '74 Duster for $2k. No rust, no major damage. The /6 in it was terminal, but for $2k what do you expect. And I know for a fact my '74 Duster, even with it's 340, 4 speed, 8 3/4 and chassis reinforcement wouldn't pull $9k as it sits, even though I have almost twice that into it. Be realistic.

 

[moparmat2000]

The OP said he was buying "his first vintage car". If a guy buying his first vintage car noticed the symptoms of this old repair after only a day or two of driving the car, Bob is either a complete moron of a mechanic, or a con artist. Or maybe both, but either way this is NOT a stand up deal.

I'm amazed how many of the members here are more than happy to jump all over some poor guy who got screwed buying his first vintage car, rather than the shady sack of crap that sold it to him. Nice bunch.

Yeah, we've all made mistakes buying these cars. I sure as heck have. There's ALWAYS going to be something that made it through the inspection process, no matter how thorough you thought you were. No one is going to let you tear into a car as deep as you need to go to really know everything. That is part of buying old cars.

What shouldn't be a part of buying old cars is flippers and scammers. But as long as we're willing to put all the blame on the buyer, those low life's will take people for a ride. Just because a seller tricked some poor bastard into buying a disaster of a car doesn't absolve the seller of being a crooked prick.

No it doesnt absolve him of being a crooked prick. Providing he knew about the substandard repair in the first place. Best thing somebody can do is take it to their mechanic for a thorough looking over, then back out if it isnt right. There is no real clear cut answer to this, he can take it back and try to get his money back, but if that doesnt happen, and bob tells him sorry you bought a 50 year old car as is, then he has to either try to take it outta bobs *** in court, or fix the car and move on. I am betting that fixing the car and moving on is going to be cheaper than trying to sue the guy. This **** happens all the time, sours newbie folks on the old car hobby we enjoy. At this point look at concidering what options you have to fix the rails properly, and enjoy the car. Whats a nice 67 barracuda vert with no framerail issues go for these days? $12k maybe? You also have to remember A 67 cuda vert is not a 74 slanty duster, and a 74 slanty duster isnt a 67 cuda vert. Comparing their values is like comparing apples to oranges even if they are the same chassis platform and wheelbase.

 

[GeorgeH]

. Just because a seller tricked some poor bastard into buying a disaster of a car doesn't absolve the seller of being a crooked prick.

No it doesn't, but sometimes it's better for the problem to go away quietly. He's not going to get anywhere by creating a red flag with the title or dropping big money on lawyer, A judgement doesn't guarantee payment. We've all been burnt by sellers.

 

[yellow rose]

Give me a break. I bought my '74 Duster for $2k. No rust, no major damage. The /6 in it was terminal, but for $2k what do you expect. And I know for a fact my '74 Duster, even with it's 340, 4 speed, 8 3/4 and chassis reinforcement wouldn't pull $9k as it sits, even though I have almost twice that into it. Be realistic.

Show me a decent A body, factory 340, stick that isn't beat to **** and I'll show you a 12k car. Easy. Doesn't mean there aren't 3k cars out there. My buddy bought one. 318 auto car with **** paint. Runs and drives like a new car.

It would help if the OP posted pictures of the car.

I'm very realistic.

 

[Cuda Al]

9k for a Barracuda convertible, fix it and move on, still be money ahead.


Alan

 

[72bluNblu]

No it doesnt absolve him of being a crooked prick. Providing he knew about the substandard repair in the first place. Best thing somebody can do is take it to their mechanic for a thorough looking over, then back out if it isnt right. There is no real clear cut answer to this, he can take it back and try to get his money back, but if that doesnt happen, and bob tells him sorry you bought a 50 year old car as is, then he has to either try to take it outta bobs *** in court, or fix the car and move on. I am betting that fixing the car and moving on is going to be cheaper than trying to sue the guy. This **** happens all the time, sours newbie folks on the old car hobby we enjoy. At this point look at concidering what options you have to fix the rails properly, and enjoy the car. Whats a nice 67 barracuda vert with no framerail issues go for these days? $12k maybe? You also have to remember A 67 cuda vert is not a 74 slanty duster, and a 74 slanty duster isnt a 67 cuda vert. Comparing their values is like comparing apples to oranges even if they are the same chassis platform and wheelbase.

Like I said, if a guy that just bought his first vintage car can diagnose the symptoms of that substandard repair, then they guy knew, or is completely incompetent. Remember this is allegedly a guy that owns an auto repair business.

I don't disagree about his options. If the seller isn't a stand up guy and won't take the car back, it has to go legal and that's going to be a mess even if the seller is completely in the wrong. What I disagree about is the complete lack of support the guy is getting here. He got screwed one way or the other, and everyone here is like "too bad", when it looks pretty obvious that he was taken for a ride.

Yes, I realize my '74 Duster isn't a 'vert Barracuda. That wasn't the question I was answering. Yes, you can get a cleaner A-body for $9k. Maybe I should have included 'verts when I excluded original big block cars and 340 cars.

Then again this Barracuda 'vert sold for less then $7.5k, and it looks pretty decent to me. Needs some work, but I'd rather take one without rust that needs work than one that needs frame rails...
1967 Plymouth Barracuda | eBay

No it doesn't, but sometimes it's better for the problem to go away quietly. He's not going to get anywhere by creating a red flag with the title or dropping big money on lawyer, A judgement doesn't guarantee payment. We've all been burnt by sellers.

Again, I don't disagree. His options suck and it probably is better for him to take his lumps rather than go legal if the seller won't take the car back. But like I said, that doesn't mean we should all just tell him suck it up and too bad.

 

[yellow rose]

Absolutely. 9 grand should buy you an absolute peach of an A-body as long as it's not some original big block or 340 car.

You're not going to get some Barrett-Jackson show car for $9k, but you can absolutely buy a nice, clean, rust free driver car for that.

You need to take a trip through the the FABO for sale section. At the top is a 73 Duster with a /6 in very nice condition ask $7,800.00 and that's a pretty good price for a car in that condition.

 

[adriver]

The Scam You Have to Avoid When Buying a Used Car
This process is called title-skipping and although it is a common practice, it is illegal in most states.

I don't know how "title skipping" could be illegal in my state on that car since a title would not be required on the OP car.
It may just fall into the "who cares" category.
And if there is no title on the car this state won't issue one.
Most all old cars here just have a registration.