Lifter Clatter

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Toluene56

Toluene56

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Hello Ladies and Gents. I'm trying to determine whether or not I have a Lifter bleed down or pump up issue. I believe it's bleed down.
Now my engine block is a blueprint 408 short block (Roller block). To get everything up and running with my Lunati 60413 cam, I used stock roller lifters. I have recently swapped to 4.30 gears and found close to 6000+ rpm (at the end of the track) the sucker just kinda levels off and I can feel the odd surge, not quite like valve float. But on the return road back to the pits I can hear the lifters clattering like an old worn out diesel. Wait about 10 minutes fire it back up and everything pumps back up again and sounds normal and runs normal. This leads me to believe that at high rpm the lifters are bleeding down as opposed to pumping up and causing the valves to hang open. Note- I've also noticed the lifters do bleed down pretty quick, I've zero lashed them and set about 1/4 turn for a preload.

Just for info, through the traps i'm seeing about 6200-6300rpm.
and yes.. I know.. "use a solid cam".

I'm looking for some opinions on this. Also if anyone knows of any kinds of lifters that will help alleviate this issue?

Thanks!
 
1/4 turn = about .010, you need to go 1.5 turns to get .0625 or 1/16" preload
 
brian6pac said:
1/4 turn = about .010, you need to go 1.5 turns to get .0625 or 1/16" preload
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I get the clatter after high rpm pulls no matter how I have the preload. I've been messing with it for the last few months. Which is why i'm thinking a slower bleed performance lifter would be a good fit instead of dumping a good chunk on all new solid setup.
 
Toluene56 said:
Solid roller lifters work properly with a Hyd Roller cam? I was honestly thinking about trying it. lol
Click to expand...

I think the ramps are different but I would call a cam grinder to find out for sure.
 
I don't see why the solid lifters couldn't be used. They're just a lifter without the cushion effect of the hydraulic. The only real difference is the ramp rates of the solid vs hyd cam itself.
If anything it should allow a bit more rpm and eliminate my bleedown issue, it just won't have the profile of a true solid cam. I hope i'm on the right track with this thought.
 
Hydraulic cams have faster/shorter ramps.
Solids on a hydraulic cam should run better. But make sure you have a very tight lash or else the valve train will be hammered.
 
BigBlockMopar said:
Hydraulic cams have faster/shorter ramps.
Solids on a hydraulic cam should run better. But make sure you have a very tight lash or else the valve train will be hammered.
Click to expand...
Funny I just read something I found on google where they said .002 lash was used. NOw I can't find it for the life of me.
 
Some hydraulic rollers and solid rollers use the same lobes, but not all of them are that way. That being the case you must run very tight lash when installing solid lifters on a hydraulic cam. It gets even more touchy if you have aluminum heads, because, the lash setting is about the same as the aluminum head will expand. I run solid lifters on hydraulic cams and use .005"-.006" cold lash on iron heads and .000"-.002" cold lash on aluminum heads. The aluminum heads will expand and increase the lash about .006" to .006"-.008" lash total. I don't like any more lash on a hydraulic cam because of the ramp opening design.
 
IQ52 said:
Some hydraulic rollers and solid rollers use the same lobes, but not all of them are that way. That being the case you must run very tight lash when installing solid lifters on a hydraulic cam. It gets even more touchy if you have aluminum heads, because, the lash setting is about the same as the aluminum head will expand. I run solid lifters on hydraulic cams and use .005"-.006" cold lash on iron heads and .000"-.002" cold lash on aluminum heads. The aluminum heads will expand and increase the lash about .006" to .006"-.008" lash total. I don't like any more lash on a hydraulic cam because of the ramp opening design.
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awesome.. Thanks for the info. All of you.
 
I'm running solids on a hydraulic FT cam.
All steel 360 with 318 '302' heads.

If I put anything less then .006" lash in the valve train (cold) the engine will idle rough when warmed up.
 
Solid lifters are used on Hyd cams all the time in NHRA Stock Eliminator. It's a major reason those fly like they do. However, some lash is necessary to get away from base circle runout, expansion etc. Furthermore, Hyd 'seat' specs are at .006 lobe lift. and profiles are favorable for the HYD/less than solid lifter. Gentler ramps. connect those dots...

Solids have a 'clearance ramp' to gently 'take up' the running clearance or lash for the same BC, Expansion reasons. Solid seat specs are typically in the .015 - .020 lobe lift range even though recommended 'lash' is in the .022 - .028 range. These parameters are squeezed on 'tight lash' solids.
Rate of lift is more aggressive on solids cause the lifters don't the 'problems' the Hyd cousins do. the pushrods take that beating..

Your OEM roller lifters will have to be modified in the 'check' or 'valving' inside the lifter to make them hold under pressure. Or at least disassembled to verify the integrity of the 'check' system.
But I suspect you may be having some pressure issues.. Even just a slight amount of cavitation will severely compromise a Hyd lifter under power.
My 2cents anyway. for what it's worth
 
The clattering makes sense for the idea of bleeding down. But that won't hang the valves open... it'll do the opposite. What oil is being used?
'63GT said:
But I suspect you may be having some pressure issues.. Even just a slight amount of cavitation will severely compromise a Hyd lifter under power.
Click to expand...
If they pump right up after sitting a bit, that that idea is making some sense.
 
nm9stheham said:
The clattering makes sense for the idea of bleeding down. But that won't hang the valves open... it'll do the opposite. What oil is being used?
If they pump right up after sitting a bit, that that idea is making some sense.
Click to expand...
I could see that as well.
 
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