Mopar #'s Matching

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WI-Barracuda

WI-Barracuda

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Long time Mopar fan and previous member to this forum. I am just getting back into it now because I have the option to purchase two 1965 Barracudas. The motors are out of them already from previous owner and I believe 1 was a 273 Commando car. Did Mopar do #'s matching with car and engine in 1965? I am just wondering if I should put back in the original 273 (not sure it actually is) to keep original or should I go with a 318/340 right off the bat if I am looking to build the engine up down the road? Not looking to do anything crazy with power, but just don't want to get my butt handed to me by my Dad's '64 Barracuda that has a 318.

Any suggestions/feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
I will be watching this, as I am curious. Seems to me they started matching numbers, meaning they started putting the VIN on the motors and transmissions around '67 or '68, but I can't say for sure.

:popcorn:
 
No such thing as matching numbers anything until 1968 when they started stamping the VIN numbers on engines and transmissions. All you can do for 67 and below is see what the date codes are and what engine came in your car according to your VIN or fender tag.
 
WI-Barracuda said:
Long time Mopar fan and previous member to this forum. I am just getting back into it now because I have the option to purchase two 1965 Barracudas. The motors are out of them already from previous owner and I believe 1 was a 273 Commando car. Did Mopar do #'s matching with car and engine in 1965? I am just wondering if I should put back in the original 273 (not sure it actually is) to keep original or should I go with a 318/340 right off the bat if I am looking to build the engine up down the road? Not looking to do anything crazy with power, but just don't want to get my butt handed to me by my Dad's '64 Barracuda that has a 318.

Any suggestions/feedback would be greatly appreciated!
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You will need to look at the fender tag to see which 273 the car came with. Under A and B if it has a 30 it's a 2 barrel and if it has a 31 it's a 4 barrel.
 
exactly why I just have to laugh at the dummies who scream numbers matching engine and trans in any pre 68 Mopar, you can date code until the cows come home but it does not definitively prove that is the exact engine the car was born with.
 
Priar to '68 a matching numbers car would mean that the component parts are properly date coded for the build date of the car. For 1968 and newer this means that in addition to date coding you now have VIN numbers on major components that must match. For a 1965 cuda I would have no problem building it any way I wanted.
 
They did not have matching numbers back then. You can get close with the engine casting and assembly dates. The assembly date is on the front of the block, driver side, just below the cylinder head. These dates should be prior (about 30 days or sooner) to the scheduled build date on the fender tag.
 
Thanks everyone for your feedback on this. I think if the 273 motor looks decent when we start going through it, I will keep it in the car for now. Long term I would like to get something larger in there, but budget is really tight right now. If I see I have to stick a lot of parts into the 273 as we are looking through it, I will then just pull the plug and change motors.
 
273's are great motors, especially early solid lifter ones. They come with all the "good" parts. Closed chambered heads, forged crank, good rods, pistons are at the top of the deck even in 2 barrel engines, adjustable valve train. They were High Performance engines from the start. Great all around engine.
 
If you are not rebuilding stock why not look into recreating the dual 4-bbl option used on the special 275hp Darts that year, or mounting the later 340 6-pack setup.

As your dad's '64 never came out of the factory with the 318 you do have a precedent for an engine swap, but if you can get them to work it would be much cooler showing a built 273 than a swapped engine.
 
duelingcudas said:
If you are not rebuilding stock why not look into recreating the dual 4-bbl option used on the special 275hp Darts that year, or mounting the later 340 6-pack setup.

As your dad's '64 never came out of the factory with the 318 you do have a precedent for an engine swap, but if you can get them to work it would be much cooler showing a built 273 than a swapped engine.
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Because the 275 HP D Dart engines didn't have dual quads.
 
I might add in '68 ( not sure what month) they began to use the build sequence number not vin. The vin started being used on eng/trans in '69. The 273 will be physically the same as the 273. There are other oddities to make it look like a 273 though.
I bet the vin will tell if a car was a 273 2 bbl or 4 bbl car??
 
barbee6043 said:
I might add in '68 ( not sure what month) they began to use the build sequence number not vin. The vin started being used on eng/trans in '69. The 273 will be physically the same as the 273. There are other oddities to make it look like a 273 though.
I bet the vin will tell if a car was a 273 2 bbl or 4 bbl car??
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Fender tag and build sheet tells but not the VIN.
 
Mine= '68 cuda BB, matching numbers. Engine and trans stamped with last eight digits of VIN number, not a sequence number.
 
read my sig. Build a 318/340 or battle a 360 install with its externally balanced motor. if you like the 273 look, no one is going to read the block for the 360 casting under a 273 air cleaner. There is really nothing a 273 2bbl (even a 4bbl with 1 exception) does that a 318 cant do better and that includes swinging a forged crank as the 318-3 trucks had them.
 
pishta said:
read my sig. Build a 318/340 or battle a 360 install with its externally balanced motor. if you like the 273 look, no one is going to read the block for the 360 casting under a 273 air cleaner. There is really nothing a 273 2bbl (even a 4bbl with 1 exception) does that a 318 cant do better and that includes swinging a forged crank as the 318-3 trucks had them.
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Hate to tell you but a 318 2 barrel does not make 230 hp and is no match for a 273 4 barrel. If you want to add all the good stuff you might have a chance, but that's not what you're saying. My 4 barrel marine engine is only rated at 225 hp, lower compression, cam and AFB.
 
I bet if we has a fresh 273 and fresh 318, same compressions and equivalent cams, 4 bbl, good curved dist and tune, with the right rear gears, by the seat of the pants it would be hard to tell the difference. Seems to me there are 3 ways to go: have the correct well built drive train, or build a look alike stroker with more power, or do what many are doing today, go modern drivetrain.
Me, I am happy to get them running good with what I have and not spend $ I don't have anyway!!!
 
barbee6043 said:
I bet if we has a fresh 273 and fresh 318, same compressions and equivalent cams, 4 bbl, good curved dist and tune, with the right rear gears, by the seat of the pants it would be hard to tell the difference. Seems to me there are 3 ways to go: have the correct well built drive train, or build a look alike stroker with more power, or do what many are doing today, go modern drivetrain.
Me, I am happy to get them running good with what I have and not spend $ I don't have anyway!!!
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If you do that I would think the nod would go to the 318. I go plenty fast with the 273 4 speed O/D and 3.91 gears. All as stock as I could go with the best machining.
 
fklskv said:
I would do a 340 or 360. Why?

1) Whip dads ***

2) I don't see huge money for any car with a 273. IMHO
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273 Commando has some value if the car came with it and has some options etc. Ther are still a few guys out there that can get them running and it all depends on what you are into..originality..which is why we have A bodies in the first place is the only reason to keep a 273. If you just want to enjoy the car a be able to set your passenger back in their seat a 273 with the right combo is a cool setup if the car came with it. If you are not into the originality thing by a modern day hemi and really show them who’s boss.Lol
 
66fs said:
Hate to tell you but a 318 2 barrel does not make 230 hp and is no match for a 273 4 barrel. If you want to add all the good stuff you might have a chance, but that's not what you're saying. My 4 barrel marine engine is only rated at 225 hp, lower compression, cam and AFB.
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C'mon now.....I've been around this a while.

USA specifications 273 V8 318 V8 (LA) 340 V8
Gross horsepower, 1968
(no accesories 68 style) 190 @ 4400 230 @ 4400 275 @ 5000
Torque, lbs.-ft. , 1968 260 @ 2000 340 @ 2400 340 @ 3200
Compression ratio, 1968 9.0 to 1 9.2 to 1 10.5 to 1
Bore, inches 3.63 3.91 4.04
Stroke, inches 3.312 3.312 3.312
Carburetor type (1968-73) 2-bbl. 2-bbl. 4-bbl.
Fuel Regular Regular Premium

001.jpg
 
pishta said:
C'mon now.....I've been around this a while.

USA specifications 273 V8 318 V8 (LA) 340 V8
Gross horsepower, 1968
(no accesories 68 style) 190 @ 4400 230 @ 4400 275 @ 5000
Torque, lbs.-ft. , 1968 260 @ 2000 340 @ 2400 340 @ 3200
Compression ratio, 1968 9.0 to 1 9.2 to 1 10.5 to 1
Bore, inches 3.63 3.91 4.04
Stroke, inches 3.312 3.312 3.312
Carburetor type (1968-73) 2-bbl. 2-bbl. 4-bbl.
Fuel Regular Regular Premium

View attachment 1715246160
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Me too, Don't make me look up real hp for a stock 2 barrel 318. Do you really think a 318 2 barrel can beat a 273 Commando? I can tell you it can not. It will get me off the line, but I will fly by it long before the end of a 1/4 mile.
 
66fs said:
Me too, Don't make me look up real hp for a stock 2 barrel 318. Do you really think a 318 2 barrel can beat a 273 Commando? I can tell you it can not. It will get me off the line, but I will fly by it long before the end of a 1/4 mile.
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Look em up and compare to real gross HP numbers for a 273-2 and a 318-2. Like a poster said, we are comparing motors with the same go fast parts, only thing different is the bore. Now let's compare a 10:1 273-4 to a hypothetical 10:1 318-4 (cheaper to build new than a 273-4). There will be no comparison with +20%, or 45 more cubes. I stated there is nothing a 273 can do that a 318 can't do better. Sure the 273-4 has +5 hp but when will it catch up to a 80 ft/lb torque advantage? Gearing is not part of the comparison. Post up what you find, it will be interesting for the thread.
 
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