Aftermarket MC brake issues

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mycuda

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Probably beating a dead horse but cant bleed pedal going to dual reservoir
disc brake all four. Either MC junk or I should quit hobby......

Bled MC. Bled each line 50 times. No pedal unless pump a few times.
Even bled each 1/2 of MC at a time????
Was told stock single pot MC brake rod compatable....

Thanks for medicinal advice...


Dave
 
Does the pedal get hard with multiple pumps holding the pedal down on the last one?
If no still spongy, then you got air somewhere.
If yes it gets hard, then you have either flex in the system, or excessive travel somewhere.
But if nothing makes a difference check your Compensating port operation.

This is not rocket science; a hard pedal means no air regardless of how many pumps it takes. A spongy pedal always means air in the system or rotten hoses.
Lots of pumps then hard, means one of three things; excessive travel somewhere, insufficient M/C stroke capacity, or flexing calipers.
And won't get hard no matter what, usually means the C-port is not compensating. If it ain't working, then it ain't moving fluid, and then nothing works.
The statement that you bled it 50 times points to a working C-port, else no fluid would have come out during the bleeding procedure. S you are already ahead of the game


If you have drums in the back, then go look for excessive travel back there. If it is not readily apparent, then remove the shoes and but a HD C-clamp over the wheel cylinders in such a way that the pistons cannot come out of there; then pump the pedal again. Does the pedal get hard now?
If yes then fix the back brakes.
If no, then go look for flex in the front calipers. You might have to take them off and install a metal strap between the pads ; then hit 'em hard with hydraulic pressure, while watching them. Sometimes I C-clamp the pistons into the bores. With both front and rear hydraulics now C-clamped there is no excuse for not getting a hard pedal........ on the first pump, actually, probably immediately on pedal application!
 
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Probably beating a dead horse but cant bleed pedal going to dual reservoir
disc brake all four. Either MC junk or I should quit hobby......

Bled MC. Bled each line 50 times. No pedal unless pump a few times.
Even bled each 1/2 of MC at a time????
Was told stock single pot MC brake rod compatable....

Thanks for medicinal advice...


Dave

Isn't a single pot MC too small for 4 wheel discs?
 
I just don't get it I've put many Master cylinders on cars, Universal, oem correct and never had a problem....
 
so its fixed now ?

Was the system working before or is this an entirely new braking system ?

Your MC may not have enough volume to fill all the calipers ...might need a larger bore MC
 
I went with a small bore MC and larger bore wheel cylinder to maximize the non power drums on the Swinger I am building. I may find myself in the very same boat....
 
Going to get a mid-70s front disc brake car master cylinder.
I was told that should work..


I will respond with the results thanks.
 
Going to get a mid-70s front disc brake car master cylinder.
I was told that should work..


I will respond with the results thanks.

As I recall, there is a sweet spot with respect to the size of the MC and it's like 15/16". The problem is discs are usually power assisted because of the larger piston. The 15/16' is on the smaller end of power brakes, or at least that is my understanding. It's supposed to be large enough for the discs, but easy enough on the leg.

Safe to assume you've looked through A Body Disc Brake Swap 101 ?
 
I went with a small bore MC and larger bore wheel cylinder to maximize the non power drums on the Swinger I am building. I may find myself in the very same boat....
I run the KH 4-piston system with 10x2s on the back, and a 15/16 M/C. The pistons are 1.625 in diameter, and there are 8, so that is a total area of 16.59sq inches. Allowing .015 for knock-back, this comes to .25 cubic inches of volume fluid displacement required in the front. In a 15/16 bore, this requires the M/C piston to move just .265 inch. With a 7/1 pedal ratio, this is just 1.86" of pedal travel. My system works perfect.
To match this with 2 caliper pistons, you would need pistons of 3.25" diameter moving .015 on seal-retraction plus knock-back. You got 3.25s,lol? I think your fronts will be all right.
In the rear you should have plenty
 
Does the pedal get hard with multiple pumps holding the pedal down on the last one?
If no still spongy, then you got air somewhere.
If yes it gets hard, then you have either flex in the system, or excessive travel somewhere.
But if nothing makes a difference check your Compensating port operation.

This is not rocket science; a hard pedal means no air regardless of how many pumps it takes. A spongy pedal always means air in the system or rotten hoses.
Lots of pumps then hard, means one of three things; excessive travel somewhere, insufficient M/C stroke capacity, or flexing calipers.
And won't get hard no matter what, usually means the C-port is not compensating. If it ain't working, then it ain't moving fluid, and then nothing works.
The statement that you bled it 50 times points to a working C-port, else no fluid would have come out during the bleeding procedure. S you are already ahead of the game


If you have drums in the back, then go look for excessive travel back there. If it is not readily apparent, then remove the shoes and but a HD C-clamp over the wheel cylinders in such a way that the pistons cannot come out of there; then pump the pedal again. Does the pedal get hard now?
If yes then fix the back brakes.
If no, then go look for flex in the front calipers. You might have to take them off and install a metal strap between the pads ; then hit 'em hard with hydraulic pressure, while watching them. Sometimes I C-clamp the pistons into the bores. With both front and rear hydraulics now C-clamped there is no excuse for not getting a hard pedal........ on the first pump, actually, probably immediately on pedal application!

Thank you for the c- clamp trick. I'm going to need that!

I've had similar issues on my car. Is it possible the rear wheel cylinders expanders, or lack of, is part of the problem?
 
I run the KH 4-piston system with 10x2s on the back, and a 15/16 M/C. The pistons are 1.625 in diameter, and there are 8, so that is a total area of 16.59sq inches. Allowing .015 for knock-back, this comes to .25 cubic inches of volume fluid displacement required in the front. In a 15/16 bore, this requires the M/C piston to move just .265 inch. With a 7/1 pedal ratio, this is just 1.86" of pedal travel. My system works perfect.
To match this with 2 caliper pistons, you would need pistons of 3.25" diameter moving .015 on seal-retraction plus knock-back. You got 3.25s,lol? I think your fronts will be all right.
In the rear you should have plenty

I am running the stock manual drums ... 7/8" MC and cant remember which wheel cylinders...just that they were larger.
I have yet to fill with brake fluid so I dont know....
 
I am running the stock manual drums ... 7/8" MC and cant remember which wheel cylinders...just that they were larger.
I have yet to fill with brake fluid so I dont know....
The math shows the 15/16 to be adequate for a pair of 3.25 pistons. Since I have never seen bigger than 2.75, even the 7/8 can handle that............. if the rear drums are adjusted right.
A pair of 2.75s would require .178 cubic inches for .015 travel. In a 7/8 bore this would be .296 stroke. At 7/1 pedal ratio this would be 2.07 inches of pedal travel, sweet. I think 2.75s came on C-bodies.
The 15/16 in the back, I think are stock. But they travel a further in their action. Thankfully drums are self actuating once the lining hits the drums.
Those two sides together might displace .138 cubic inch @.100 total travel per side. In a 15/16 master this would require a stroke of .200.. At 7/1 pedal ratio, this would be 1.4 inches of pedal travel.
 
Back to original post. This is pirate Jack front and rear disc brake conversion.
And I have used this setup twice before with no problem.
All in all I'm guessing this aftermarket eBay master cylinder is crap.

I will let everybody know
The results after I change master cylinders thanks.
 
Probably beating a dead horse but cant bleed pedal going to dual reservoir
disc brake all four. Either MC junk or I should quit hobby......

Bled MC. Bled each line 50 times. No pedal unless pump a few times.
Even bled each 1/2 of MC at a time????
Was told stock single pot MC brake rod compatable....

Thanks for medicinal advice...


Dave
I had a similar problem on my dart going from single pot to duals. turned out the master cylinder was leaking back a bit. I either had a bad one from the get go or forgot and pressed the pedal all the way down before completely bleeding the system (which according to the manufacturer is a no-no).
 
One common issue that gives the identical problem is using FMJ Calipers on the earlier A/B/E style stands.
The bleed screws end up oriented so that there is always an air pocket in the caliper.
 
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