Hemi Dart Clutch Issues

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jpharley

jpharley

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Hi, anybody tried to put a hydraulic T.O. bearing on a Hemi Dart? I am stumped as to where to put the Master. I have a completely stock clone and hate to mess things up too badly. The stock clutch linkage with a std T.O. has very little adjustment available and as it sits, flexes when the pedal is depressed. The bearing has to ride on the clutch fingers to allow it to fully disengage. And when things heat up...well nothing works right. Ideas????
 
With the current linkage, what is flexing?
Is this a Borg & Beck 3 finger style?
Are you sure you have the correct parts?
Do you have any loss motion in the linkage?

Several folks have posted nice examples of their hydraulic set up. Worth a search in the drivetrain posts.
 
Daves69 said:
With the current linkage, what is flexing?
Is this a Borg & Beck 3 finger style?
Are you sure you have the correct parts?
Do you have any loss motion in the linkage?

Several folks have posted nice examples of their hydraulic set up. Worth a search in the drivetrain posts.
Click to expand...


It is a McLeod Twin Disc, Diaphragm style. The parts are all correct. TTI headers, therefore modified Z Bar from TTI. The engine actually torques when the pedal is depressed. But the issue is that I can't get enough throw to release the clutch with any free play on the pedal, the TO bearing is riding the pressure plate all the time. I'm talking with McLeod so may get some ideas there.
 
jpharley said:
......the TO bearing is riding the pressure plate all the time. I'm talking....
Click to expand...

I understood that. If you have room to back it off HR had a mod that could be done to provide more departure. The article may explain your issue...…..
Four-Speed A-Body Clutch Pedal Adjustment - Torque Shaft Rod - Mopar Muscle Magazine

jpharley said:
The engine actually torques when the pedal is depressed......
Click to expand...

Maybe one of these could help...….
Torque Strap Installation
 
The Butch Leal Hemi Duster has the mod to the clutch pedal and the clutch shaft (TTi) frame position has been relocated (slightly) to match the modified bellhousing mount.
It has plenty of pedal and no flexing. It does have brackets that attach the frame to a brackets on a modified scattershield to act as a mid-plate and the motor has elephant ears.

I also just added a hydraulic clutch / twin disc Mccloud ram clutch/ pressure plate to a 72 Dart / FHO Hemi (StageII) build. I do not see any way possible without doing some minor modification to your firewall and fenderwell. The firewall needed to be slightly modified to mount the "universal" hydraulic clutch slave cylinder bracket and the fenderwell had to be "dented" to clear the fitting / line that goes to the throw-out bearing. There is a procedure when installing the throw out to make sure it rides approx .250 off the pressure plate.

For a more period correct look and no firewall and fenderwell mods....I would recommend the TTi clutch crossshaft with minor component mods in lieu of body mods.
 
Thanks for your reply HemiDenny. I did not think there would be any way to get the Hydro clutch to work on a stock firewall car. Thanks for your input.

Is there any way you could get a photo of the Butch Leal Duster setup? I have a Quick Time bellhousing and the TTI Zbar...just not much throw on the pedal. I did lengthen the pedal rod to 6 inches pin to pin as the HR article mentions. Kinda out of ideas.
 
I can text / e-mail some pics....Pm me your info

I run the Borg / Beck 3 finger style on the Flash, but I cannot see the twin disc to be an issue.

does your clutch pedal bottom out on the floor / stop when hooked to the clutch cross-shaft, but the cross-shaft not hooked to the throw-out arm adjuster?

does your clutch cross-shaft freely pivot full swing NOT hooked to the pedal or the throw-out arm?....I had to clearance the bell-housing slightly to allow full movement. I wondering if your bell-housing or starter is limiting the full travel of the Z bar
 
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when you mentioned MODIFIED Z bar from TTi.....did you mean you modified it?...if so, how did you modify it?

On the Flash, we use the TTi Z bar (Hemi / A body application) out of the box except change the upper pushrod attaching point from the factory end to accept a 3/8" rod end
 
The first thing that I would check is to see if you have a 6-cyl or a V8 clutch pedal assembly. The V-8 pedal provides more travel and is required with a V-8. Ask me how I know. If you need a pic of what the correct one looks like let me know and I can take some pics
 
He mentions (post 7) he extended the pivot to 6".....which is 1/8" more than the v-8 factory set up.
 
HemiDenny said:
He mentions (post 7) he extended the pivot to 6".....which is 1/8" more than the v-8 factory set up.
Click to expand...
Hi guys, I lengthened the clutch push rod so that it now gives me another 1/2 inch of pedal. I found the Z-bar was contacting the headers when I tried to get travel down below. I buttoned it up and it does feel better and let’s me get full disengagement. Have not driven yet. Missing driver door....had an accident at the shop. Door is being repainted.
 
just curious what you are referring to when you say ...clutch push rod.

if you mean the rod that connects the pedal assembly to the z bar.....that will not increase the travel at all, just change the location of the z bar lower pivot.

To increase travel , there is a mod to the pedal assembly that moves the pivot on the clutch pedal and relocates what I call the clutch rod outward about 3/4". The mod lengthens the stroke of the pedal effectively increasing the throw out travel and increasing the air gap between the clutch disc and flywheel when the clutch pedal it engaged. ....a must for speed / power shifting, especially at higher RPMs
 
HemiDenny said:
I can text / e-mail some pics....Pm me your info

I run the Borg / Beck 3 finger style on the Flash, but I cannot see the twin disc to be an issue.

does your clutch pedal bottom out on the floor / stop when hooked to the clutch cross-shaft, but the cross-shaft not hooked to the throw-out arm adjuster?

does your clutch cross-shaft freely pivot full swing NOT hooked to the pedal or the throw-out arm?....I had to clearance the bell-housing slightly to allow full movement. I wondering if your bell-housing or starter is limiting the full travel of the Z bar
Click to expand...
HemiDenny said:
just curious what you are referring to when you say ...clutch push rod.

if you mean the rod that connects the pedal assembly to the z bar.....that will not increase the travel at all, just change the location of the z bar lower pivot.

To increase travel , there is a mod to the pedal assembly that moves the pivot on the clutch pedal and relocates what I call the clutch rod outward about 3/4". The mod lengthens the stroke of the pedal effectively increasing the throw out travel and increasing the air gap between the clutch disc and flywheel when the clutch pedal it engaged. ....a must for speed / power shifting, especially at higher RPMs
Click to expand...
 
Okay, the pedal the rod from the clutch pedal mount down to the z bar was made longer. I realize everything being equal this would only serve to change the bottom end pivot point but it also took some of the lost motion out. The pedal now sits higher by a 1/2 inch. Which gives me more throw before I reach the floor.


Ok, I understand that lengthening the pedal to Z Bar rod (pushrod) would normally force the Z Bar pivot point forward thus losing Z Bar throw on pedal depression. However, It seems to have taken some of the "Slop" out of the pedal allowing it to come up higher (still a 1/2 inch below Brake pedal was almost 2 inches below brake pedal) It seems to actually have gained a bit of travel and is giving me a good inch of pedal before I feel pressure...TO Bearing. You were right about something else, I do come up against the starter and have notched the Z Bar to clear allowing another 1/2 inch of travel. The Z Bar was reinforced at that point on the backside. However, this mod and the Hot Rod article mod on the pedal bracket bar were done previously. They helped but did not completely resolve.

The linkage all seems level and is not binding...I just wonder if the RST dual disc with Aluminum Flywheel is needing a bit more travel that the stock setup would have needed.
 
I think lengthening the rod might actually give a shorter stroke by decreasing the allowable travel.

you really should do the pedal mod.....I bet your current clutch pedal 5-1/4" from the spring catch to the rod attaching point.....lengthen the clutch attaching end to 5 7/8"-6" and you will definitely add the travel you need.
 
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HemiDenny said:
I think lengthening the rod might actually give a shorter stroke by decreasing the travel.

you really should do the pedal mod.....I bet your current clutch pedal 5-1/4" from the spring catch to the rod attaching point.....lengthen the clutch attaching end to 5 7/8"-6" and you will definitely add the travel you need.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I actually did the pedal mod when I originally installed the Hemi and 4 speed. It was indeed 5 1/4 but is a full 6 inches now, as per Post #7. In my case the pushrod being lengthened does give me a bit more travel. It takes the slop out at the top of the rod and does not change the pivot at the bottom. I can't go any further forward with the Z Bar as it will hit the starter. I've already notched the Z Bar to get another 1/2 inch. I all feels good now. I'm going to wait until I get my door back on and see how it works on the ground. Thanks for your ideas, I'll let you know what happens.
 
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