‘64 Dart Carburetor Help

[chinze57]

I’ve got a 1964 Dodge Dart with a 270 Slant Six engine. I believe it’s 225 CI displacement.
I adjusted the carburetor’s idle to the best of my ability, and yet it still idles very fast. It’s causing hard shifting, to the point that my tires spin a bit when I shift into reverse from neutral.

My engineering teacher took a look and adjusted it, but he thinks I’m missing a gasket underneath the carburetor, and that a piece on the throttle linkage is broken.

I can post pictures if needed, but I’d really appreciate some advice, as I don’t even know where to start.

 

[Donnie514]

Well photos sure help.

 

[Mattax]

I’ve got a 1964 Dodge Dart with a 270 Slant Six engine. I believe it’s 225 CI displacement.
I adjusted the carburetor’s idle to the best of my ability, and yet it still idles very fast. It’s causing hard shifting, to the point that my tires spin a bit when I shift into reverse from neutral.

My engineering teacher took a look and adjusted it, but he thinks I’m missing a gasket underneath the carburetor, and that a piece on the throttle linkage is broken.

I can post pictures if needed, but I’d really appreciate some advice, as I don’t even know where to start.

Pictures help.
A. Get yourself a service manual. Nice thing about a factory setup is that you can set everything to the factory specs.
There are some free digital copies at mymopar.com Reprints and originals can be purchased too. Look here in the classified and there's some retailers as well.

A1. Many Service Bulletins are available at the The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Library Page (1960 - 1964)
Unfortunately @Alaskan_TA (the website master) doesn't have any listed for '64. Or maybe that's good. No corrections!

A2. Many many tips and advice provided in the Chrysler Master Tech Conference.
http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/
Take a look at 63 an d'64 to see if anything applies directly.
As you'll see they also had more general topics, where they cover why and how things work.

B. Get the idle speed correct, then adjust the transmission 'kickdown' linkage. The 'kickdown' is common name for the transmissio's throttle control. The automatic transmission only will act correctly if it knows the throttle position correctly.

The issue may relate to how the automatic choke settings. Its more like semi-automatic choke but in any event there are several stages.
1 Cold start. Choke is nearly closed, throttle is on fast idle.
2. Started - manifold vacuum imediately opens choke opens slightly further
2a. Idle speed can be kicked down one step on the cam by tapping the throttle. (if its warm enough)
3. Choke bimetal pulls choke open as it warms'
3b. When its warm enough, idle speed can be kicked down to normal position when warmed up enough.


C. To set the engine to specs you'll need a timing light and a tach/dwell. Also need a cap or plug for the distributor's vacuum line. A golf tee works great.

 

[Alaskan_TA]

@Alaskan_TA[/USER] (the website master) doesn't have any listed for '64.

You mission, if you choose to accept it.....

Locate a full set.

Scan each page, name each page & save each one as a .jpg

Contact me at that point with your submission for the site & I can create the menu & host them so everyone can see them.

The HH Library has become what it is via volunteers from all over the world willing to share their collections.

 

[Mattax]

You mission, if you choose to accept it.....

Locate a full set.

Scan each page, name each page & save each one as a .jpg

Contact me at that point with your submission for the site & I can create the menu & host them so everyone can see them.

The HH Library has become what it is via volunteers from all over the world willing to share their collections.

Barry, In all seriousness, check your website e-mails. I sent you a note last year asking if you wanted the '67 Barracuda supplement.

 

[chinze57]

You mission, if you choose to accept it.....

Locate a full set.

Scan each page, name each page & save each one as a .jpg

Contact me at that point with your submission for the site & I can create the menu & host them so everyone can see them.

The HH Library has become what it is via volunteers from all over the world willing to share their collections.

I’ve got a scan of the Technical Service Manual for ‘64 Dodges. It’s what I’ve been working with to repair and restore everything thus far. I can convert it to .jpg from pdf and get it to you if you’d like

 

[chinze57]

Pictures help.
A. Get yourself a service manual. Nice thing about a factory setup is that you can set everything to the factory specs.
There are some free digital copies at mymopar.com Reprints and originals can be purchased too. Look here in the classified and there's some retailers as well.

A1. Many Service Bulletins are available at the The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Library Page (1960 - 1964)
Unfortunately @Alaskan_TA (the website master) doesn't have any listed for '64. Or maybe that's good. No corrections!

A2. Many many tips and advice provided in the Chrysler Master Tech Conference.
Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics
Take a look at 63 an d'64 to see if anything applies directly.
As you'll see they also had more general topics, where they cover why and how things work.

B. Get the idle speed correct, then adjust the transmission 'kickdown' linkage. The 'kickdown' is common name for the transmissio's throttle control. The automatic transmission only will act correctly if it knows the throttle position correctly.

The issue may relate to how the automatic choke settings. Its more like semi-automatic choke but in any event there are several stages.
1 Cold start. Choke is nearly closed, throttle is on fast idle.
2. Started - manifold vacuum imediately opens choke opens slightly further
2a. Idle speed can be kicked down one step on the cam by tapping the throttle. (if its warm enough)
3. Choke bimetal pulls choke open as it warms'
3b. When its warm enough, idle speed can be kicked down to normal position when warmed up enough.


C. To set the engine to specs you'll need a timing light and a tach/dwell. Also need a cap or plug for the distributor's vacuum line. A golf tee works great.

Ok I’m going to level with y’all- I really don’t understand any of this. I bought the car because I really liked the look of it. I’ve been teaching myself about cars by reading the manual and reading up on this site and elsewhere. I’ve got the manual for this car, so that step is good. I really don’t understand carburetors. I’ll try and take a few photos later today and upload them

 

[Mattax]

I’ve got a scan of the Technical Service Manual for ‘64 Dodges. It’s what I’ve been working with to repair and restore everything thus far. I can convert it to .jpg from pdf and get it to you if you’d like

What you have is probably the factory service manual. Name on the front cover will vary slightly between Dodge and Plymouth depending on the year.
When there were updates to the service or part manuals, the factory released technical service bulletins. That's what you'll find in the Hamtramck Historical Library. Here's the 1963 Plymouth TSB's assembled there.
The 1970 Hamtramck Registry "1963 Chrysler / Plymouth TSBs" Page

Ok I’m going to level with y’all- I really don’t understand any of this.

Thank you!
It's hard enough helping folks over the internet, its 20 times harder when people aren't up front about what they understand.

I bought the car because I really liked the look of it. I’ve been teaching myself about cars by reading the manual and reading up on this site and elsewhere. I’ve got the manual for this car, so that step is good. I really don’t understand carburetors. I’ll try and take a few photos later today and upload them

There's two ways to tackle the problem. Mix and blend to suit your taste.
1. Learn by rote. Simply follow the books and/or mentor's instructions. Certainly a good way to start because there's nothing like putting your hands on the stuff. Sometimes there are troubleshooting charts that will get you by in some situations.
2. Understanding how things work. About the only way to solve new problems without randomly replacing parts until you get lucky.

Basic principles of how a carburetor works.
Start with this 1970 Carburetion Fundamentals and Facts from The Master Technician Service Conference Series (Session 273)
Pamphlet that goes with that Carburetion Fundamentals & Facts (Session 273) from the Master Technician's Service Conference
(Note: These are from 1970 so reference Clean Air Package (CAP) which required a leaner idle than was needed for your engine.)

Then you can look at this one for an introduction to the adjustments and other hands on stuff.
Carburetion and Performance Diagnosis (Session 188) from the Master Technician's Service Conference
or slideshow.
1963 Carburetion and Performance Diagnosis from The Master Technician Service Conference Series (Session 188)

 

[chinze57]

What you have is probably the factory service manual. Name on the front cover will vary slightly between Dodge and Plymouth depending on the year.
When there were updates to the service or part manuals, the factory released technical service bulletins. That's what you'll find in the Hamtramck Historical Library. Here's the 1963 Plymouth TSB's assembled there.
The 1970 Hamtramck Registry "1963 Chrysler / Plymouth TSBs" Page


Thank you!
It's hard enough helping folks over the internet, its 20 times harder when people aren't up front about what they understand.

View attachment 1715459913
There's two ways to tackle the problem. Mix and blend to suit your taste.
1. Learn by rote. Simply follow the books and/or mentor's instructions. Certainly a good way to start because there's nothing like putting your hands on the stuff. Sometimes there are troubleshooting charts that will get you by in some situations.
2. Understanding how things work. About the only way to solve new problems without randomly replacing parts until you get lucky.

Basic principles of how a carburetor works.
Start with this 1970 Carburetion Fundamentals and Facts from The Master Technician Service Conference Series (Session 273)
Pamphlet that goes with that Carburetion Fundamentals & Facts (Session 273) from the Master Technician's Service Conference
(Note: These are from 1970 so reference Clean Air Package (CAP) which required a leaner idle than was needed for your engine.)

Then you can look at this one for an introduction to the adjustments and other hands on stuff.
Carburetion and Performance Diagnosis (Session 188) from the Master Technician's Service Conference
or slideshow.
1963 Carburetion and Performance Diagnosis from The Master Technician Service Conference Series (Session 188)

Great! Thank you for those resources. I will be reading up on them tonight and tomorrow.

Unfortunately I had to get my Dart towed to my mechanic this afternoon. I ran out of gas (I thought), and it died on me. I put Moreno gas but couldn’t get et into to start. Eventually ran down my battery, and required a jump. Fortunately my teacher (who’s been helping me learn about all of this) came and helped me trouble shoot.

My carburetor after a bit of priming was able to get enough fuel, but i wasn’t getting a spark. We took off the distributors cap and there was a residue on the points in the points and condensers. (Still not 100% on those, but I understand the principle of how they work). And my starter sparked some and after trying to crank several times, smoked some.

My teacher suggested moving away from the mechanical points and condensers to a magnetic pickup version that is less susceptible to moisture.

 

[Mattax]

The electronic ignitions aren't perfect either. If the points are dirty, clean 'em. If they are worn or the condensor fails, then replace.
Sounds like a new cap and rotor may be needed but just going from what you typed, which is not much to go on for reaching solid conclusion.


More important. Charge that battery on a charger. Don't use the car's alternator if you can help it when its been run down like that.
Besides being hard on the wires, it can be hard on the battery (gets hot while charging fast) and the alternator (working at maximum for long period of time).

A good feature of your car, like most older cars and trucks, is that you can monitor the battery charging by observing the ammeter.
Chrysler labled that gage 'alternator', which confuses many people. I was one of those many.
Anyway - the ammeter shows how much current the battery is discharging, and then when the alternator is running it shows how much current is flowing to the battery for recharging. When the battery is recharged, the ammeter will show Zero.
The meter calibration is 40 amps discharge to 40 amps charging. If the needle is close to either extreme, that's way too much!

 

[Mattax]

Let me say this. In my opinion you have a great car to learn on.
At one point I had a '74 Nova with a straight six. That was just about the best car to learn on. The only advantage of the Chevy vs your car is better a little access to things in the engine bay. It had points ignition, drum brakes, and practically no instrumentation. The last was one of the things I was a disadvantage. I added an oil pressure gage to verify what the idiot seemed to be indicating. LOL.

Stick with it. Fix things as needed. You'll get there.

 

[Mattax]

a piece on the throttle linkage is broken.

There's a few possibilities here.
Since the starter was working, its likely the shift linkage (or cables) are correctly positioned.
The throttle control itself is probably a cable to thethrottle lever on the carb
Last is the throttle pressure control for the transmission. Its really important to have this adjusted properly. The shop manual and the Master tech series have instructions on that.

 

[trapster]

Fast idle can be a symptom of an vacuum leak. Check for play in the throttle shaft going into the carb. You can also, with the engine running, check for leaks by spraying starter fluid on the shaft, or anywhere else that looks like I leak, like hoses etc.

As for the distributer, I went with a pertronix unit and never looked back.

Good luck.