stock or hv oil pump

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I don't know. Maybe so. But how many of these guys are going to hold their engines at "that high" an RPM on a street car for "that long"? I do suppose as cheap as the pickups are, go ahead and get one, but what about the threaded hole in the oil pump? Same size.
4 gears of 6500 rpm shifts and the oil can leave the pan alright, g force is the final straw mostly when all the oil goes to the back and or side n up ...so really a baffle is whats needed to combat foaming/momentary pressure loss..from a partial uncover of the pickup.
I think people confuse uncovering the pickup from hard shift/take off with a pump sucking the pan dry.
 
4 gears of 6500 rpm shifts and the oil can leave the pan alright, g force is the final straw mostly when all the oil goes to the back and or side n up ...so really a baffle is whats needed to combat foaming/momentary pressure loss..from a partial uncover of the pickup.
I think people confuse uncovering the pickup from hard shift/take off with a pump sucking the pan dry.

Now THAT I can go along with.
 
Now THAT I can go along with.
On a gauge its not seen until 1 or 2 seconds of it occurs because the psi behind the sender is still somewhat constant with oil timing closing the door behind till the next window relieves enough psi.
Heres something for people to chew on...there is probably about 2 -2 1/2 quarts of oil in the factory 5qt pan, maybe, while running up above 5500 rpm....the rest is in path or suspended/falling out/draining back.
 
On a gauge its not seen until 1 or 2 seconds of it occurs because the psi behind the sender is still somewhat constant with oil timing closing the door behind till the next window

Right, PLUS all the AIR in the line still pushing the OIL against the gauge! lol "WHOOPS"
 
Right, PLUS all the AIR in the line still pushing the OIL against the gauge! lol "WHOOPS"


Rusty there is some truth to the small diameter pick ups and HV pumps. There is published testing on it and the style of pump Chrysler uses makes tube diameter all the more critical.

That said, most of the testing I can find was done in the late 1970's and maybe the early 1980's. You and I both know that back then, 20w50 oil was the de facto oil.

Hell, I know guys who clear up to the 1990's who were using a single grade 50!!! And that goo, especially when cold has a devil of a time getting up the pick up.

Of course, I don't care about any 50 grade oil even at temp, as they are still too dam think today.

So, if you are using a 50 grade oil and have it to temp, trying to feed that pump at say 7000 or higher and the pump starts to cavitate.

Today, if you are running a decent 30 grade oil, it's not nearly as hard to feed the pump. But it can still be an issue at engine speeds above 5000.
 
The Milodon Road Race pan is nice, but required me to notch my K-member for clearance. Check your headers for pan clearance also. I had to dimple my oil pan so the main studs would not hold the pan up off the pan rail. I used a Superformance pan gaskets. with good result and no leaks.

If you have a Magnum block and are using an LA oil pan, be sure to address the front timing cover mismatch issues the two set-ups have. (see pics)

Run a windage tray and/or crank scrapper, and verify your dip stick oil level calibration.

Oil Pan Gaskets (Medium).JPG


Oil Pan pic (Medium).JPG
 
Cut the front pass side corner off and weld a flat triangle piece over the hole.

Dip stick never goes in and reads right unless you make a hole for it at the baffle.
 
Rusty there is some truth to the small diameter pick ups and HV pumps. There is published testing on it and the style of pump Chrysler uses makes tube diameter all the more critical.

That said, most of the testing I can find was done in the late 1970's and maybe the early 1980's. You and I both know that back then, 20w50 oil was the de facto oil.

Hell, I know guys who clear up to the 1990's who were using a single grade 50!!! And that goo, especially when cold has a devil of a time getting up the pick up.

Of course, I don't care about any 50 grade oil even at temp, as they are still too dam think today.

So, if you are using a 50 grade oil and have it to temp, trying to feed that pump at say 7000 or higher and the pump starts to cavitate.

Today, if you are running a decent 30 grade oil, it's not nearly as hard to feed the pump. But it can still be an issue at engine speeds above 5000.

Yeah but "who" makes an HV oil pump with a larger diameter threaded pipe opening? No one, unless you want to go to one of those bottom plates with the welded on pickup. So that means everyone whose used that style pump with the screw in pickup has the oil going through the same size hole, even if the pickup is a "high volume" pickup.
 
Yeah but "who" makes an HV oil pump with a larger diameter threaded pipe opening? No one, unless you want to go to one of those bottom plates with the welded on pickup. So that means everyone whose used that style pump with the screw in pickup has the oil going through the same size hole, even if the pickup is a "high volume" pickup.


Exellent point Rusty. With a center sump pan, it's a beeeeotch to get a big enough pick up on a stock pump inlet.

I have seen some guys make a pump cover (not unlike the Milodon cover for their rear sump pans, which I wish they still made today) where they put one pick up in the cover, and the other uses the OE hole in the housing.

When I was turning 8500 I used a 1 inch pick up in the cover and a number 10 hose from the pick up screen up to the OE hole in the housing.

At that RPM, no matter what oil you are using has a hard time getting into the pump. So the bigger the inlet(s) the better.

Even on my street junk now I'm running a 1 inch pick up. Just because I'm a coward like that.
 
The author was working for "Chrysler performance parts development" and did state that Chrysler engineers ran tests that showed the flow did not improve with a hv pump and standard size pickup.
He referenced special bottom plates with larger fitting and pickup. No source was referenced.
He did say Milondon made a bottom plate with a fitting (size?) and described using it to make a dual pickup. The Chrysler engineers used a flexible hose on the lower pickup.
I don't know if any of those bottom plates are available. Might need to be fabricated?
 
H.V. Oil pump at high rpm can drain a stock oil pan in about 13 seconds.

Ran my 73 Duster at the track...shifted at 6500 with stock pan and HV pump...never had a problem....I guess 6500 is not high rpm....

no one will agree....just run what you want to run.....or we should start another thread on which is faster 340 or 360....
 
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Has been written and discussed over and over.

A stock pump with a larger oil pickup will out flow a hv pump with the stock pickup.

Get a milodon or moroso pickup with the bigger inside diameter.
 
Has been written and discussed over and over.

A stock pump with a larger oil pickup will out flow a hv pump with the stock pickup.

Get a mulodon or moroso pickup with the bigger inside diameter.

STILL has to go through the SAME SIZE pipe thread hole as the standard volume pump.
 
Gee guys then why do oil mods or even bother to remove production oil pumps and pan? Sounds to me like a couple scoops of lard slathered on those expensive internals ought to do it,
 
That is true that is why they use a thin wall tubing. Aka bigger inside same size outside.

But it still has to go through the same size hole in the PUMP. On a big block, the hole is drilled bigger in the block where the pickup screws in, so there is no longer that restriction. In the small block, the restriction is still there.
 
But it still has to go through the same size hole in the PUMP. On a big block, the hole is drilled bigger in the block where the pickup screws in, so there is no longer that restriction. In the small block, the restriction is still there.


As in the past your not gitting it.

The INSIDE is larger so it flows more.

Remember this thread.

Hi volume oil pump vs standard volume pump
 
As in the past your not gitting it.

The INSIDE is larger so it flows more.

Remember this thread.

Hi volume oil pump vs standard volume pump

No, you're not getting it. THE PUMP'S entrance hole IS NO DIFFERENT. The pickup, yes, but IT STILL has to go through the same size hole in the pump as the standard volume pump. The THREADS are the SAME diameter.
 
No, you're not getting it. THE PUMP'S entrance hole IS NO DIFFERENT. The pickup, yes, but IT STILL has to go through the same size hole in the pump as the standard volume pump. The THREADS are the SAME diameter.

Are you serious? Have you ever even seen a moroso oil pickup. The inside where it screws in the pump is larger.
 
Are you serious? Have you ever even seen a moroso oil pickup. The inside where it screws in the pump is larger.

You still don't get it. Yes I have seen them. I am not talking about the pickup. I am talking about the PUMP. "ALL THAT" STILL has to go through THE SAME SIZE HOLE as the standard pump.
 
I get what you're saying. But, there'll be no "BIG" change until you use something like the pickup that's made onto the bottom plate like the old Milodon.
 
1"I.D. water hose 1 gallon bucket at a house fire or 3"I.D. water hose and 10,000 gallon tank.....which would you prefer?
 
High Volume. For more flow with the use of a cooler and remote filters. Also essential when you have excessive by pass at the lifters . Most factory blocks flow oil back to the pan very fast. Some of the race blocks are closed off in the lifter gallery.

There is always a reason for different applications of oiling. There is a new chemical now the you use in a blast cabinet and blast pistons and bearings and internal parts. Tungsten Disulfide , It makes them so slippery there is no friction.

My son uses King's bearings, total seal rings and O-rings most heads. We all can argue all day about what we think is the best. The younger generation has more technology then we had. Some of the engines Evo, Supra, Subaru, and Hondas, Nissan , LS , Hemi and Diesels that come here for custom head and block work for race cars and trucks have things being done. "Technology" that I believe was taken from Area 51 LOL. And here we are talking about 50 year old cast iron motor technology. You should live with the life of a young machinists and his world.

We argue all the time. Then he gets his hand held small TV out of his pocket and I get disgusted and go to the house. LOL

As you can see below not all feed or return of oil is the same on small blocks

block2.JPG


1DSCN2812.JPG


block7.JPG
 
You still don't get it. Yes I have seen them. I am not talking about the pickup. I am talking about the PUMP. "ALL THAT" STILL has to go through THE SAME SIZE HOLE as the standard pump.

We were tallking about the suction side of the pump not the pressure side. You are trying to confuse the issue.
If you don't get enuff supply it won't matter which pump you use.
 
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