360-1 Indy 245 cnc heads

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pittsburghracer

pittsburghracer

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well I thought I lost my opportunity to flow test my buddies Indy heads but he dropped it off Thursday for my son to put on his engine. He called me over the weekend and said he would pay me to flow the unmodified 345 cnc’d head. Well after Church today I spent hours flowing not only that head but also the one that was leaking water in an exhaust port and unsuccessfully I tried to have it welded. I also did some air speed testing. I will post the numbers tomorrow but here are some pictures.
 
Are those marks around the valve seats inside the chamber there some kind of speed Secret?
 
famous bob said:
LOOKS LIKE THEY WERE ORIGINALLY CNC`D-------
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Yes this is a stock 245 cnc’d head. The marks you are looking at are probably the few that weren’t touched during the process. I was kinda shocked at how well these things flowed. Would I do more work to it if they were mine? Yes. Would I buy a set? Yes, if I could get heads with untouched exhaust ports. In my eyes the amount of metal they took out I couldn’t “fix” what I feel is done wrong and the airspeed and flow shows me that.
 
Jadaharabi said:
Are those marks around the valve seats inside the chamber there some kind of speed Secret?
Click to expand...
Today's approach to porting does not include smooth ports and chambers. The flow is better when the material is dimpled or otherwise textured... think of a golf ball that flies farther with dimples.
 
Probably true, but you also gotta figure those ridges cost money to hand-polish out. Plus, when you hand work them you lose the same-ness of them.

Especially in the chambers...those ridges must be prone to holding carbon and creating hot spots.
 
cnc was programed for rough/fast speed rate//plus a smoother finish would require more material removal//trade off? hard to do with inconsistencies of a previously cast item being "fine tuned" verses machining a billet block
 
The single reason 'technically' the program would leave a rougher finish is machine time. A smoother finish generally will take longer to produce; you're taking more, smaller passes.
 
I can’t really tell how those are from the pics, but on their BB CNC heads, sometimes the transition from the valve job into the exhaust bowl can leave a lot to be desired....... and improving it can sometimes result in pretty big increases in flow.

One set of SR’s I had here picked up over 30cfm on the exhaust side by recutting the seat and blending it in to the bowl.
 
After my 2.2 mile walk today I made three stops for my son trying to find some starter wire anchors for a car he is working on for a Friend with the heads I flow tested. Couldn’t find any so I grabbed my Harbor Freight list I always have nearby and set off on the 45 mile round trip and they had them. 170.00 later I set off for home. I didn’t get a chance to organize the flow sheets so hopefully tomorrow. I will say I love my flowbench and digital electronics but where a fluid manometer can’t react fast enough to catch “jumpy” numbers a digital bench will. I don’t have or use a button to set my number so I usually list the high and low at a given lift. To guys that play with flowbenches they will understand easier what I’m trying to say. When I port heads I always try to calm that jumpiness and the used head shows that somewhat. The bolt bulge is pushed over “not enough” and the cnc Ridge was removed from the shortside. Not worth the 1400.00 charges but that’s another story. Hope that included porting the intake. I didn’t even really look at it or I would have probably had it on my porting bench. I didn’t reread all of this so I hope it makes sense. Lol
 
Ok now some flow numbers. To help stop confusion the head listed as NEW is a 360-1 Indy 245 CNC'd head. The one listed as old is ALSO a 360-1 Indy 345 CNC'd head but reworked by Ryan (Shadydale) and another head porter in Pa. This is the one that has a hole in the exhaust port that I tried getting welded for him with little success so he is putting the one NEW head on.


New head Intake
.100-----55 cfm
.200----138
.300----191
.400----248
.450----273
.500----295----380-400--- fast but not to fast
.550----312-320--jumpy---air speed pegged at 401 PLUS across short-turn
.600----345-350
.650----351-358
.700----325-330----noisy----air jumping short-side. You can hear this with your ears with muffs on.
.750----328-334
.800----332-342
.850----322-338

New head Exhaust
.200---103
.300----135
.400----162
.500----185
.600----197
.700----210
.800----223

I totally HATE the way they went about doing this exhaust port and as much as I like what the intake side could be with very little work there is to much metal removed on the exhaust side to do what I would want to do. Airspeed on the exhaust should be at least 325 FPS. I had to really search to find 275 FPS. Old head numbers coming.
 
350 on the intake...... that’s a pretty nice number.

210@.700, 223@.800 on the exhaust...... not great.
How does the exhaust “sound”?

2.10 and 1.65 valves?
45* seats?
 
PRH said:
350 on the intake...... that’s a pretty nice number.

210@.700, 223@.800 on the exhaust...... not great.
How does the exhaust “sound”?

2.10 and 1.65 valves?
45* seats?
Click to expand...


The exhaust wasn’t really noisy but believe it or not the Speedmaster Head was much quieter. Not sure what valve angles but since they were out of the box I’m betting you are right. The seats were lightly rusted and I cleaned them up with transmission fluid and gray fiber cloth. The other shop north of me assembled the heads, blued them, and lapped them in. To me the exhaust were pathetic and even the intake ports were to jumpy and wouldn’t go on my engine that way.
 
Pay attention readers...PBR is giving free lessons on why flow numbers are NOT the do all, be all everything to die for numbers.

THANKS PBR.
 
gregcon said:
The single reason 'technically' the program would leave a rougher finish is machine time. A smoother finish generally will take longer to produce; you're taking more, smaller passes.
Click to expand...
They are designed to be that way...a smooth finish is going backwards.
 
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I will be pouring a port with mold compound for future knowledge like I did on my B1 heads. Intake side only of course
 
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