Carb or fuel injection?

Carb or injection

  • I have a carb and will keep it

    Votes: 21 70.0%

  • I installed injection and had or I am still having issues

    Votes: 1 3.3%

  • I installed injection without an issue and it works great

    Votes: 8 26.7%
  • Total voters
    30
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toolmanmike

toolmanmike

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Let's have a poll and some discussion about carbs vs injection.
Most of us still run carbs and there's nothing wrong with that.
If you have installed a injection set up and had issues or took it out let's hear your story.
If you have installed injection and it's working great let's hear about that too.
 
^^You have to compare apples to apples^^ If you bought all the system for a carb front to rear at the same price levels in each, you can get something like a Sniper for very close to the same price as a carb system.

I actually am and always have been cheap. I first bought an old Holley "knob adjust" system to experiment with, and then ran across (a good deal) a 4bbl "Commander 950" system pretty cheap. Later I upgraded it to a Holley HP (the current Holley computer) with the same TB. That TB is not "junk" and if I manage to get it to port injection, I can still use the same TB by merely disconnecting or even removing the TB injectors.

I even have a basic Megasquirt II that I started assembling, that is still "down in the bunker" mostly put together. Megasquirt however, has increased in price, and they "leave a lot on the table" like no wideband O2 built in and so on

This was "the thing" that got me started..........and old Holley "pro-jection" off C/L for cheap. I still have it and it likely still works. You "program" it with 5? knobs on the case

_mg_5929cs-jpg.jpg


Then I ran across this Commander 950/. These are pretty capable, but no provision for "self learning." I did score a small add-on program from an independent party which does "some" of that

5n65ic5x53k83f43n1c9s8502de99dd7b1d7b-jpg-jpg.jpg
 
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I went with a fitech set up several years ago. There instructions were lacking and I had to go online and search to resolve some issues I was having. I eventually got so frustrated with it I called them , and they said i had to upload new software. Did all that and then they tell me I must use an msd distributor with there system, ok so i bought an msd distributor- the one they told me to get- could not get the car to start- Took the msd distributor out launched it across the garage and put the stock electronic distributor back in- started right up- I called fitech back bitched them out about the msd distributor and asked them to reimburse me for that- nope. Finally had it working except it would drain my battery if i did not drive the car once a week, ok no problem I can put a trickle charger on it when not driving no problem. Then the fuel pump went out with less than 1,000 miles. Got a replacement and the fitting sizes were different, ok no problem figured that out.

i could never get the idle to be consistent. I could never get the iac to set properly for more than a couple miles. It would want to surge on me at idle. I am currently doing a motor swap on the car and will be taking out the fuel injection. I see it more of a novelty item. I did not get better gas mileage, the performance was no different than a dialed in carb. seemed to be more of a headache that I was expecting.

Will not be going back to fuel injection again - no point of it in my opinion other than the wow factor when opening the hood.
 
Once I build my motor and break it in with a carb, then will switch it over to the Sniper. I’ll know more then
 
67Dart273 said:
^^You have to compare apples to apples^^ If you bought all the system for a carb front to rear at the same price levels in each, you can get something like a Sniper for very close to the same price as a carb system.

I actually am and always have been cheap. I first bought an old Holley "knob adjust" system to experiment with, and then ran across (a good deal) a 4bbl "Commander 950" system pretty cheap. Later I upgraded it to a Holley HP (the current Holley computer) with the same TB. That TB is not "junk" and if I manage to get it to port injection, I can still use the same TB by merely disconnecting or even removing the TB injectors.

I even have a basic Megasquirt II that I started assembling, that is still "down in the bunker" mostly put together. Megasquirt however, has increased in price, and they "leave a lot on the table" like no wideband O2 built in and so on

This was "the thing" that got me started..........and old Holley "pro-jection" off C/L for cheap. I still have it and it likely still works. You "program" it with 5? knobs on the case

View attachment 1715749682

Then I ran across this Commander 950/. These are pretty capable, but no provision for "self learning." I did score a small add-on program from an independent party which does "some" of that

View attachment 1715749683
Click to expand...

Not how I buy things. Considering most rollers already have fuel tanks and lines, and considering someone (I won't name names but it's Rob) is frugal enough to clean all the old stuff up, there's your tank and lines right there. Plus a used carburetor....I have a 3310 I got CHEAP a 20 buck kit new filter and you're there. No comparison as far as price.

I like carburetors and I ain't comin down. lol
 
67Dart273 said:
^^You have to compare apples to apples^^ If you bought all the system for a carb front to rear at the same price levels in each, you can get something like a Sniper for very close to the same price as a carb system.

I actually am and always have been cheap. I first bought an old Holley "knob adjust" system to experiment with, and then ran across (a good deal) a 4bbl "Commander 950" system pretty cheap. Later I upgraded it to a Holley HP (the current Holley computer) with the same TB. That TB is not "junk" and if I manage to get it to port injection, I can still use the same TB by merely disconnecting or even removing the TB injectors.

I even have a basic Megasquirt II that I started assembling, that is still "down in the bunker" mostly put together. Megasquirt however, has increased in price, and they "leave a lot on the table" like no wideband O2 built in and so on

This was "the thing" that got me started..........and old Holley "pro-jection" off C/L for cheap. I still have it and it likely still works. You "program" it with 5? knobs on the case

View attachment 1715749682

Then I ran across this Commander 950/. These are pretty capable, but no provision for "self learning." I did score a small add-on program from an independent party which does "some" of that

View attachment 1715749683
Click to expand...

I'm not bein smartass or facetious or any of that but.......have you RUN any of that yet? Or are you simply showing how you CAN get the stuff for cheap? There is a difference.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I'm not bein smartass or facetious or any of that but.......have you RUN any of that yet? Or are you simply showing how you CAN get the stuff for cheap? There is a difference.
Click to expand...
I've run it all before the car was torn down, first the Holley "projection" for part of one summer, then I scored the Commander 950 and installed that, and the next spring I went with the newer HP computer
 
67Dart273 said:
I've run it all before the car was torn down, first the Holley "projection" for part of one summer, then I scored the Commander 950 and installed that, and the next spring I went with the newer HP computer
Click to expand...

I thought I remembered you had, but I wasn't sure. S'why I asked. My memory ain't what it once was. I bet you don't have any of "that" though. lol
 
krazykuda said:
View attachment 1715749702
Click to expand...
I like the way you put the puzzle together there. But it does look like you're cracking up!
toolmanmike said:
some discussion about carbs vs injection.
Click to expand...
All I have to offer is pretty much about the same thing I said before.
Mattax said:
To properly support EFI, the electrical system needs major alteration. The original design isn't really appropriate, although people have been known to crutch it. So weigh that when considering whether carb or EFI is for you on this project.
Click to expand...

If you think its an interesting project and up for the challenge, go for it. If you don't think its interesting or are not up for the challenge, then don't. The ones who get in trouble are the ones that think its interesting but are not up for the challenge. That's not unique to EFI projects, but as I posted in the last thread on this topic
Mattax said:
You are correct.
Note carefully what he wrote. It's easier for him.
He knows where his bread is buttered.
Click to expand...
 
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I have a 318 with an Edelbrock 1406 and a Tanks Inc. pump and tank in the car. Also an edel air gap manifold and 2 1/2 dual exhaust and letting it set for weeks at a time, turn key on for pump to run pump gas 2x and fires right up. I will not change to F.I. on this car. My Gen2 hemi in my cuda was a different story. I tried FiTech and after 2 years and 1400 miles got stuck at a gas station and had to have car flat bedded home. Sent it back to FiTech said ECU was bad and wanted almost $400 to replace it. I argued and they warranted it and no charge. I put carbs back on and have been running ever since. Any one interested I'll sell the FiTech with the 2 throttle barrels that I had on a 2 4barrel manifold for a Hemi. Never ran it since they replaced the ECU. I felt helpless with the no start situation.
 
67Dart273 said:
^^You have to compare apples to apples^^ If you bought all the system for a carb front to rear at the same price levels in each, you can get something like a Sniper for very close to the same price as a carb system.
Click to expand...
Yes but I already have a carb setup. If I had nothing they perhaps I'd be more inclined to do it.
 
I did my own install of MPFI with coil near plug and Megasquirt 3 pro, its been over 5 years with zero issues. But you have to do a lot of thinking, buying different parts and wiring.
 
I would love to have FI (still might try it) but just the rock solid reliability of a carb is impossible to beat for me right now. Why they can't get these aftermarket FI systems actually reliable is beyond me.
 
Furious65 said:
I would love to have FI (still might try it) but just the rock solid reliability of a carb is impossible to beat for me right now. Why they can't get these aftermarket FI systems actually reliable is beyond me.
Click to expand...

Honest opinion on why someone might have an issue or believe this:
1) Many systems have the ECU mounted on the carb flange but yet most electronics are only rated for about 105C or 221F while operating. So they could easily get on the ragged edge there, as well as the vibration from that location. Get one with an external ECU and mount it inside the car and you won't have issues.
2) Most people don't want to do the stuff to do the most reliable type of fuel system (return system w/bypass regulator and in tank pump).
3) Many people just aren't willing to spend the time or money to make good connections to the existing vehicle (weatherpack connectors with proper crimper, solder/heat shrink, etc)
4) Not knowing how to tune it, but you have the same issue with a carb. Self tuning only goes so far.

I won't ever have to replace an accellerator pump, power valve, distributor cap & rotor or anything like that again. So I mean there's generally less that can get eaten up by fuel over time, though I still have the fuel pressure regulator.
 
goldduster318 said:
Honest opinion on why someone might have an issue or believe this:
1) Many systems have the ECU mounted on the carb flange but yet most electronics are only rated for about 105C or 221F while operating. So they could easily get on the ragged edge there, as well as the vibration from that location. Get one with an external ECU and mount it inside the car and you won't have issues.
2) Most people don't want to do the stuff to do the most reliable type of fuel system (return system w/bypass regulator and in tank pump).
3) Many people just aren't willing to spend the time or money to make good connections to the existing vehicle (weatherpack connectors with proper crimper, solder/heat shrink, etc)
4) Not knowing how to tune it, but you have the same issue with a carb. Self tuning only goes so far.

I won't ever have to replace an accellerator pump, power valve, distributor cap & rotor or anything like that again. So I mean there's generally less that can get eaten up by fuel over time, though I still have the fuel pressure regulator.
Click to expand...

I have a Supersniper for my Duster and the heat soaking into the ECU still plucks me in the head. I like the rest of it except that. And before it's all said and done I may do something different just because of that.

JW
 
I’ve had a Sniper for a couple years. A number of posts here and the Sniper page asking questions because I was not familiar with efi, but hey, everything I do on this car is a learning experience. But it runs pretty good now, and making a change is a file upload. Don’t like it, reload the previous one. So it’s easy for me to experiment which I continue to do. It’s snappier than with the carb that the builder dyno tuned it with. I can never leave well enough alone on my car, this is just one more learning process.
 
goldduster318 said:
Honest opinion on why someone might have an issue or believe this:
1) Many systems have the ECU mounted on the carb flange but yet most electronics are only rated for about 105C or 221F while operating. So they could easily get on the ragged edge there, as well as the vibration from that location. Get one with an external ECU and mount it inside the car and you won't have issues.
2) Most people don't want to do the stuff to do the most reliable type of fuel system (return system w/bypass regulator and in tank pump).
3) Many people just aren't willing to spend the time or money to make good connections to the existing vehicle (weatherpack connectors with proper crimper, solder/heat shrink, etc)
4) Not knowing how to tune it, but you have the same issue with a carb. Self tuning only goes so far.

I won't ever have to replace an accellerator pump, power valve, distributor cap & rotor or anything like that again. So I mean there's generally less that can get eaten up by fuel over time, though I still have the fuel pressure regulator.
Click to expand...
I've seriously have wanted efi for my (hopefully) daily driver when completed. I was considering the Edelbrock multiport setup as I want it to work the best I can if I'm investing the cash. I have no problem installing the correct type of fuel system or doing proper electrical connections (as I was an auto security installation specialist in another life) so I know I got all that covered. Tuning could be a challenge as I understand carbs completely but have never played with efi conversions of any type. All the horror stories have kept me away from trying it.
 
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