Oil Pump & Camshaft Gear Oiling Modification

-
reading your Dutra oil mods article, it looks like my "drilled jet idea" wasn't exclusively mine after all..."One method is to simply drill a hole through the block’s main oil galley “pocket” and press in a small roll pin or tube with a .030 hole to direct a stream of oil directly onto the gears..." Why is the 6 bolt HV oil pump the only candidate: "...You will need a “6 hole” oil pump if you plan to do this modification and it takes some extra work but this ensures that lots of oil is placed on those gears, right where it is needed...."Does it only have the necessary pressure area to drive this?
oiler-far-sm.jpg


So that whole article leaned toward too soft a gear and they said they hardened some but they didn't tell us if they worked. C'mon man!
 
I would be curious how well this worked. Does it solve the problem? HV pump gear will live like that? kind of curious how many HV pumps were installed without issues as well. cant see them continuing to sell if they all fail.
 
...Why is the 6 bolt HV oil pump the only candidate".."Does it only have the necessary pressure area to drive this?
View attachment 1715768518
Ah, I see the pressure galley going through that '6 bolt only' cavity now....j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶m̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶s̶s̶u̶r̶i̶z̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶a̶ and that will direct the oil into your bolt squirter...the latter pump bodies dont have this cavity.
6bolt.png
Untitled.png
 
Last edited:
Charrlie_S said:
I just checked my stock. I have a MP high volumn pump made by Melling, with the box dated 8/25/1999. It is a 5 bolt. Since I don't use them, myself, I can't say whether I have ever seen a 6 bolt HV pump.
Click to expand...

I am tending to agree. I'm not sure they made one....I've not seen one as of yet. Thanks for looking, Charlie!
 
pishta said:
...Why is the 6 bolt HV oil pump the only candidate".."Does it only have the necessary pressure area to drive this?
View attachment 1715768518
Ah, I see the pressure galley going through that '6 bolt only' cavity now....just drill a small port in that to pressurize that area and that will direct the oil into your bolt squirter...the latter pump bodies dont have this cavity. View attachment 1715768671View attachment 1715768680
Click to expand...

No, you don't have to drill the pump. You drill the block. You need that cavity on the pump to keep the block from leaking after you drill it to pressurize the cavity.
 
vitamindart said:
I would be curious how well this worked. Does it solve the problem? HV pump gear will live like that? kind of curious how many HV pumps were installed without issues as well. cant see them continuing to sell if they all fail.
Click to expand...

If you read the Dutra article, the only failures he talks about are those who used 50 weight racing oil and some who ran high RPM with the HV pump. So, I'm betting as long as you run 10w30 like you're supposed to, you may not have an issue. I'm all about doing different stuff, so I wanted to try it. It sure won't hurt anything. I've got plenty of time to keep looking for a 6 bolt HV pump, or proof they never made one. I'm beginning to think the latter. And that's cool. If that's the case, I'll run the pump I have.
 
RustyRatRod said:
No, you don't have to drill the pump. You drill the block. You need that cavity on the pump to keep the block from leaking after you drill it to pressurize the cavity.
Click to expand...
Doh, I was visualizing that bass ackwards...Thank you, Drive through..
 
I had a 79 D100 years ago, with a slant in it. I took off from home one day, got to the end of the block, made left turn, and BANG! Big backfire.
Coasted into a farm field entrance. I could see my backyard from where the truck came to a stop. I walked home, got another car, so I could carry some tools.
Upon checking it out, something led me to pull the distributor. (its been a long time ago, don't remember all details of the roadside troubleshooting I did.... )
But I discovered that the dist gear was stripped. I went to parts store, bought a gear, swapped them out, put dist back in, it fired 2 or 3 times, (never started) and then nothing. crank crank crank, no fire.
I pulled the dist (again) and the new gear was also shredded. This time when I pulled the distributor, the cam was in such a spot in rotation where I saw the issue... 2 or 3 sheared teeth on the cam gear. I have never seen that before, or since.
so I chain towed the truck home, found another /6, and swapped engines. I should have fixed the original. The replacement engine was a horrible oil burner. and worse on power, than the original ever was. To my knowledge, that original engine had never been torn into. It ran really good right up til it didn't.

After the bum /6 oil burner, that truck got 318'd. I never did pull that original /6 apart to see what else was damaged within, just scrapped it.
Im sure the oil pump gear was shot, as well. It had to be. I dunno "chicken or egg" progression of what went 1st, which then caused the carnage. It's been 30+ years ago.
 
pishta said:
Doh, I was visualizing that bass ackwards...Thank you, Drive through..
Click to expand...

If you look at the picture where I'm holding the drill bit in the hole I drilled, you'll see how that cavity is pressurized.
 
volaredon said:
I had a 79 D100 years ago, with a slant in it. I took off from home one day, got to the end of the block, made left turn, and BANG! Big backfire.
Coasted into a farm field entrance. I could see my backyard from where the truck came to a stop. I walked home, got another car, so I could carry some tools.
Upon checking it out, something led me to pull the distributor. (its been a long time ago, don't remember all details of the roadside troubleshooting I did.... )
But I discovered that the dist gear was stripped. I went to parts store, bought a gear, swapped them out, put dist back in, it fired 2 or 3 times, (never started) and then nothing. crank crank crank, no fire.
I pulled the dist (again) and the new gear was also shredded. This time when I pulled the distributor, the cam was in such a spot in rotation where I saw the issue... 2 or 3 sheared teeth on the cam gear. I have never seen that before, or since.
so I chain towed the truck home, found another /6, and swapped engines. I should have fixed the original. The replacement engine was a horrible oil burner. and worse on power, than the original ever was. To my knowledge, that original engine had never been torn into. It ran really good right up til it didn't.

After the bum /6 oil burner, that truck got 318'd. I never did pull that original /6 apart to see what else was damaged within, just scrapped it.
Im sure the oil pump gear was shot, as well. It had to be. I dunno "chicken or egg" progression of what went 1st, which then caused the carnage. It's been 30+ years ago.
Click to expand...

Now that's interesting! Thanks!
 
RustyRatRod said:
Crapped if I know. They seem pretty hard to me. lol
Click to expand...

Black oxide coated hardware is often made from high strength alloy steel which has been hardened some. Not *****'s heart hard, but harder than typical butter soft screws.
The black ox is used as a coating because it is low heat and doesn't affect the tempering of the metal. It provides little corrosion protection, but does hold a bit of oil to keep them from rusting in storage..

Stainless screws are usually 18-8 (very similar to 302 or 304) which is soft, but work hardens fast. It can be tough to drill by hand because the first time the chip breaks the surface hardens and won't drill anymore.
 
Phreakish said:
Black oxide coated hardware is often made from high strength alloy steel which has been hardened some. Not *****'s heart hard, but harder than typical butter soft screws.
The black ox is used as a coating because it is low heat and doesn't affect the tempering of the metal. It provides little corrosion protection, but does hold a bit of oil to keep them from rusting in storage..

Stainless screws are usually 18-8 (very similar to 302 or 304) which is soft, but work hardens fast. It can be tough to drill by hand because the first time the chip breaks the surface hardens and won't drill anymore.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll get it did. I forgot a drill bit like a dumbass when we went into town today, but there's always tomorrow. lol
 
Phreakish said:
I have no doubt! Lots of cutting fluid and it should be fine. Just slow..
Click to expand...

Yeah I get caught up in the moment thinkin "hot dam it's cuttin good now!" and that's about when it breaks. lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yeah I get caught up in the moment thinkin "hot dam it's cuttin good now!" and that's about when it breaks. lol
Click to expand...

I know that feeling! Pushing harder and harder, cutting better and better, then the bit buckles and snaps and I ram my drill and fist into the vise..
 
vitamindart said:
Sorry, I will try and look at those HV pumps I have tonight and let you know what I find.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I think we're all going to find there's no HV 6 bolt pump.....but I don't know that for sure.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I found them. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Where? What VW application?
And on your want for a HV pump... would putting the Hemi HP (hi pressure) somehow pull more "draw" and give you the extra volume you're wanting? The effect of HP would be diminished with all of your extra "leaks" with the full grooved bearings and this nozzle for the oil pump gear.
 
volaredon said:
Where? What VW application?
And on your want for a HV pump... would putting the Hemi HP (hi pressure) somehow pull more "draw" and give you the extra volume you're wanting? The effect of HP would be diminished with all of your extra "leaks" with the full grooved bearings and this nozzle for the oil pump gear.
Click to expand...

One like this.

ENGINE OIL SQUIRTER JET SPRAYER VW JETTA MK5 05.5-06 TDI DIESEL BRM GENUINE OEM | eBay

All the Hemi spring does is increase pressure. It takes a wider pump rotor to increase volume.....which essentially what you have with an aftermarket pump. Their rotor is 7/8 wide, from the stock 5/8. The true HV pump is 1" wide. But as I've been saying, it does not appear that a 6 bolt HV pump was ever made.
 
Last edited:
I get the thicker rotor thing for volume, if the rest of the pump is otherwise the same/ relief, etc. But I thought that volume also increased when pressure is increased as well.
 
volaredon said:
I get the thicker rotor thing for volume, if the rest of the pump is otherwise the same/ relief, etc. But I thought that volume also increased when pressure is increased as well.
Click to expand...
That is true, but if the pump does not have enough pumping capacity (volume) it will not build pressure. The pressure relief valve will open and limit max pressure only if the pump has enough capacity. One way to see if the pump has enough capacity, is to increase engine speed, and check max oil pressure. Then increase the spring in the relief valve, and see if the pressure increases. If it does, the pump has enough capacity, if it does not, the valve is not opening and the pump does not have enough capacity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top