My 440 rebuild thread

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Righty Tighty

Righty Tighty

Blame it on the dog
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Well folks, don't do what I did. I bought my 74 Barracuda with a 440 six barrel last April, and hit sat for around 20 years without being run or turned over, according to the previous owner. I got it home, changed all the fluids, belts, hoses, plugs, etc., oiled the cylinders and turned it over by hand several times. What did not do, however, is prime the oil pump. It didn't even occur to me.


Previous owner told me the engine was a fresh build (20 years ago), and that it had maybe 500 miles on it. He said he was having trouble getting it tuned, got frustrated, and threw it into storage where it sat. I got it started and it ran ok, but the idle was extremely high once it warmed up, so I played with timing and fuel settings, and got it to mellow out.


There was always a problem that surfaced around 2800 RPM, and that was a stumble/pop/afterfire out of both exhausts. I tried many things from troubleshooting ignition and fuel, checking plugs, wires, nothing helped. Finally, I had a moment. Yesterday I had a valve cover off, and noticed the rockers were all just about at the same angle. Dammit. I'm pretty sure I know what that means. My cam is flat. Whether this happened because I didn't prime before starting or the previous owner didn't break it in properly, I don't know.


I need to pull the engine and confirm (also cut open the oil filter), but I'm quite certain that's what it is. So, I wanted to start a thread documenting my 440 rebuild for those interested, and because I know I'm going to have questions. I rebuilt my 318LA a couple years ago, and had immense help from the members here at FABO, so I'm pretty confident going into this.


The previous owner couldn't provide a build sheet for the engine, so I never knew what cam was in it, pistons, etc., so I'm excited to be able to tear this one down and build it how I want it, and now I'll KNOW what's in it.


Thanks for reading, and I hope you all will follow along.
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Dig in. I'd pop that intake and see whats up. Maybe all the lifters collapsed or the push rods are all too short!

Why do the exhaust retainers look different than the intakes?
 
dano said:
Dig in. I'd pop that intake and see whats up. Maybe all the lifters collapsed or the push rods are all too short!

Why do the exhaust retainers look different than the intakes?
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I think the plan for tomorrow will be to open up the oil filter and remove the intake, as you suggested, and have a look at the lifters and pushrods.

As for the retainers, I haven’t the foggiest idea. My guess is that they used rotating retainers on the exhaust valves for some reason?
 
Not priming the pump would not cause the cam lobes to wipe. They are oiled from splash. If the cam is wiped it probably happened during break in which would be why the guy couldnt get it tuned correctly.
You dont usually see valve rotators on mopars but perhaps that was an industrial engine. When used, they are usually on the exhaust only.
 
MoparMike1974 said:
Not priming the pump would not cause the cam lobes to wipe. They are oiled from splash. If the cam is wiped it probably happened during break in which would be why the guy couldnt get it tuned correctly.
You dont usually see valve rotators on mopars but perhaps that was an industrial engine. When used, they are usually on the exhaust only.
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We'll see how the cam looks. I guess I'll feel a little better knowing it wasn't me that did it if the cam is indeed wiped. It did occur to me yesterday that if he ruined the cam upon break in, that could've been why he couldn't tune it. When I flattened a lobe on the 318, the car barely ran. This engine, I can drive to the store and back with relatively no problems as long as I keep it at low RPMs.

72Duster440 said:
The lifters could have bled down causing them to all be the same height.
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So, if the lifters did bleed down, wouldn't I be able to pull them out and let them pump themselves back up? Or soak in oil?
 
Well, ****. This is embarrassing. I had Pops over today to help look over the engine, and one thing I hadn't done after seeing the rockers all the same angle, was turn it over and watch to see how they moved. We did that, and they all move just fine.

So I'm back to square one, with an additional question. How did the rockers end up the same height? Was it from the lifters bleeding down? I think the cam might be fine, and with #6 and 7 plugs being carbon fouled, maybe an ignition issue.
 
Only thing I can think is, if it has to do with the lifters is they could be hanging valves open causing that pop, but that's just a semi educated guess.
Or your carbs need tuned
 
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MOPARMAGA said:
Only thing I can think is, if it has to do with the lifters is they could be hanging valves open causing that pop, but that's just a semi educated guess.
Or your carbs need tuned
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I don’t know if you’ve seen my thread Misfire at cruise, popping/afterfire at 3000RPM but there might be some details that a fresh set of eyes could pick up on. Some suggestions so far have been checking ignition, which I’ve partly done, and the possibility of sticking valves as you said.

One thing that keeps catching my eye is that #6 and 7 plugs are getting carbon fouled even after changing plugs. I haven’t checked the plug wires for continuity yet, will do that tomorrow.
 
Righty Tighty said:
View attachment 1715805328
I don’t know if you’ve seen my thread Misfire at cruise, popping/afterfire at 3000RPM but there might be some details that a fresh set of eyes could pick up on. Some suggestions so far have been checking ignition, which I’ve partly done, and the possibility of sticking valves as you said.

One thing that keeps catching my eye is that #6 and 7 plugs are getting carbon fouled even after changing plugs. I haven’t checked the plug wires for continuity yet, will do that tomorrow.
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I'll check out your thread & see what I can find
 
It looks like the exhausts have rotators for retainers; low rpm truck/motor home parts.
 
They do have retainers edit: meant to say rotators. 2800RPM seems a bit low to start misfiring, though. Am I wrong?
 
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Outsder said:
It looks like the exhausts have rotators for retainers; low rpm truck/motor home parts.
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Exactly.

Anytime I see exhaust rotators on a rebuild I’m leery(unless it’s a 100% stock overhaul).
From the factory, the heads that come with rotators on the exhaust have shorter valve springs to go with them, because they reduce the installed height.

When an aftermarket performance cam is used, along with the appropriate springs to go with it...... you will almost always have an issue with the rotators resulting in too much spring pressure, and/or not enough distance to coil bind.
Unless the cam is quite small.
In pretty much any type of performance oriented build, they should be eliminated.
Which is why they never came on any of the factory HP offerings.

At a minimum I would be doing some checking to make sure the exhaust rotator, valve spring, installed height situation is compatible with the cam....... and doesn’t result in a “self destruct” condition.
 
I did a little digging today, rotated the rockers back so I could see the ends of the valves. To me, the wear looks unusual. Some are like this first picture, where the wear is almost concave and mushroomed.
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And some are like this, where it looks like the rocker is way off center.
0B0529DA-AEA0-41FF-8623-39F332428903.jpeg
Then again, maybe that’s a machining mark? But there’s also this one:
EE64E48C-82A6-4060-908E-C7825A290CC8.jpeg


Has anyone seen this before?
 
If I do that, I might as well send the heads to the machine shop for a valve job and get the springs replaced.
 
Yes, I see that stuff often, last valve would definitely be replaced, 2nd picture looks like someone got a little aggressive while trying to tip the stem, twice ?? 1st pic factory rockers are pretty much not close very often.
I would definitely take them to a trusted shop & have the give you a honest assessment of the heads, I don't know the history of course, but you maybe looking at guides, valve job & surfacing. While you're at it have the guide height cut down for seals and put stainless valves in, but then your money would be better spent on stealth heads. Just my 2 cents.
 
Also, pulled the #6 exhaust pushrod, it is very slightly bent. I didn’t put feelers under it, but you can see the oil prints it left while rolling on the bench.

D12EFC29-4C9B-4DD8-BA5E-A1147910725D.jpeg
 
MOPARMAGA said:
Yes, I see that stuff often, last valve would definitely be replaced, 2nd picture looks like someone got a little aggressive while trying to tip the stem, twice ?? 1st pic factory rockers are pretty much not close very often.
I would definitely take them to a trusted shop & have the give you a honest assessment of the heads, I don't know the history of course, but you maybe looking at guides, valve job & surfacing. While you're at it have the guide height cut down for seals and put stainless valves in, but then your money would be better spent on stealth heads. Just my 2 cents.
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Thanks. I'm starting to think whoever built this engine wasn't very good.

I do have a good shop I take my stuff to, was just there a couple weeks ago to ask about replacing springs with an unknown cam. It's tempting to just take these heads in for a quick servicing and get the car running again, but like you said, if I've got them off, maybe just throw some good aluminum heads on. And then if I'm doing that, I could just yank the motor and rebuild it. I mean, that IS the title of this thread, right????
 
I’d say, at the very least the heads should be looked over and the motor home type parts(exhaust valves, locks, springs, rotators)should be replaced with passenger car parts, along with a spring upgrade while you’re at it.

If it’s in the budget....... this would def be the time for an aluminum head upgrade.
 
I think that’s what I’ll do. Pull the heads and swap in the correct parts, and at least try to get the car tuned and running well. That’ll give me time to come up with a plan (and save money) for the actual rebuild.
 
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